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PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#281 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:26 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Who said anything about significant? These deals are easy to get off of if we need to, either as a pieces in a larger trade to fill salary or quickly clear cap space.

The Magic getting to move off of Fournier the minute they wanted to, at a similar salary to what he's making now, kind of proves that.



Do you think the Knicks think this is a contending roster with Randle as the alpha? That's really the only question that matters.

If the answer is yes, then sure, they f*cked up.

If the answer is no, which I think it is, then they didn't do anything other than try and be competitive with Julius while they bide their time for a bigger fish to hit the market.

But I'll ask again, what is the alternative? I concede that they could have held off on the extension. That's totally valid. But they probably would have still made all the other moves, because they want to remain competitive.


The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?
What do you think the Knicks goals are?

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Emulate what the Nets did, putting a "competitive" team on the floor that can get free agents to sign here, but unfortunately guys are all locked into deals which eliminates the free agent superstar signings. They hired Leon to woo free agents but didn't see the shift coming of guys taking deals and then forcing trades. There are several teams with more assets than us that can jump on any disgruntled stars out there.

We're always playing behind the 8 ball.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#282 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:27 pm

knicks peak was in the pre season and first 2 games of the season ... ahem when i was making the game threads. lol
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#283 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:32 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?
What do you think the Knicks goals are?

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Emulate what the Nets did, putting a "competitive" team on the floor that can get free agents to sign here, but unfortunately guys are all locked into deals which eliminates the free agent superstar signings. They hired Leon to woo free agents but didn't see the shift coming of guys taking deals and then forcing trades. There are several teams with more assets than us that can jump on any disgruntled stars out there.

We're always playing behind the 8 ball.

They saw the shift. That's why they have contracts that are potentially tradable next season. That doesn't change the bad team building though. I know you have to reach for the maximum negative narrative though. In spite of the fact its nearly there in reality already
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#284 » by Gravy » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:34 pm

BKlutch wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
I'm focused on him because they clearly built this team around him, got players that fit with his skillset, let him run our offense and signed him to the longest current deal on the team since he has the player option. Not sure why this is so hard to admit.


They thought they were building a competitive team, they built the team wrong and it's showing. There's no easy way out of this either.


Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.

We both agree that they didn't think they were competing for a ring with this team


.
.
What you say is only correct if you're trying to be objective. Most on the board right now are either being deeply negative or just feeling panicked that things aren't going well. And some are just enjoying stoking the flames.


This. I'm pretty sure everyone who says they wont make the playoffs this year also said there was no way they would make the playoffs last year too
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#285 » by duetta » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:38 pm

Randle was famous last season for his work ethic. I wonder how much being a father for the second time is impacting his workout regime - and if that accounts for the significant decline in his 3 point accuracy?
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#286 » by robillionaire » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:44 pm

duetta wrote:Randle was famous last season for his work ethic. I wonder how much being a father for the second time is impacting his workout regime - and if that accounts for the significant decline in his 3 point accuracy?


Well he went down from 41% to 35%

RJ went from 40% to 31%
Fournier went from 41% to 36%

Did they have any kids
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#287 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:52 pm

Moocow 1-0
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#288 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:00 pm

Kampuchea wrote:Saw some good signs, Randle is one of the better facilitators at the PF spot in the NBA. The more he plays to that strength and less to being a scorer the better we are, setup Evan, Kemba, Burks just like he did multiple times in this game.


There were episodes of improved team play after the first quarter in the game but particularly in the 4th quarter when we executed much better.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#289 » by Iron Mantis » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:01 pm

Bulls have folks too scared to create tonight's game thread? :o
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#290 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:03 pm

GONYK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
GONYK wrote:This is a case by case question. I'm not moving Randle just to move him.


If we didn’t/couldn’t move Payton last season, we’re certainly not going to be able to move Randle at or before the trade deadline. Maybe at the draft/over the summer.


I don't see what one has to do with the other and I don't think we're moving Randle without having a replacement in tow


Thibs’s stubbornness and loyalty is the common denominator.

As far as a replacement, we do him in Obi.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#291 » by robillionaire » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:07 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:Bulls have folks too scared to create tonight's game thread? :o


Ask moocow, we won last night it’s his turn

He also promised us boobies and didn’t deliver so he is skating on thin ice
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#292 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:12 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Iron Mantis wrote:Bulls have folks too scared to create tonight's game thread? :o


Ask moocow, we won last night it’s his turn

He also promised us boobies and didn’t deliver so he is skating on thin ice


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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#293 » by RHODEY » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:20 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Grant plays the 4 most of the time.

99, 83, 68 and 94 percent of the time the last four seasons according to basketball-reference.

In today's NBA, he's a 4.

And he hasn't been efficient the last two seasons.

He's a Scott Perry type player. He's Julius Randle without the playmaking and passing skills.
He's 6'8" and athletic, he can play the three. Give them Fournier and some picks..

He's not mobile enough, or have the handle, shot or feel for the game to play on the perimeter like that.

There's a reason why teams have played him almost exclusively at the 4 the last 5 years.


That actually isn't true...

Quoted from the Ringer

The best way to see Grant’s value is to look at the players he defended in the playoffs. Per NBA Advanced Stats, Grant’s three most frequent assignments were Kawhi Leonard, Donovan Mitchell, and LeBron James. Anthony Davis was no. 5, and Paul George was no. 7. The list of players who can match up with combo guards like Mitchell, supersized wings like LeBron and Kawhi, and new-age big men like Davis is incredibly short. And there is no real list for players with that kind of defensive versatility who can also shoot as well as Grant did from 3 last season (38.8 percent on 3.5 attempts per game).

Grant is exactly the type of player the Nuggets need around Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Their two young cornerstones are offensive-minded players who need their supporting cast to space the floor and guard players like LeBron and Davis. Grant comfortably switched assignments when defending the pick-and-roll between the Lakers’ two superstars in the playoffs, making their bread-and-butter play considerably less effective. The forward’s combination of size (6-foot-8 and 210 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan) and athleticism made him the perfect counterpart to Jokic up front.


If he wasn't mobile he wouldm't be able to do the above...in the playoffs.... he CAN defend the 3 position...and then some
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#294 » by Buttah304 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:37 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:Thibs wanted Bullock back, Perry wanted DeRozan and Rose signed Fournier. Leon's big mistake.

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Bullock was key to our success last season.

He was our only efficient scorer in the starting unit (our 5s aside), with an excellent true shooting percentage of 60.6%. He was an outlet for the entire starting line-up, with Randle serving mostly as a decoy.

Letting him go was a major mistake.

A lot of great teams have had off-ball players/spot-up shooters who can't put really the ball on the floor.

Yeah we needed more players who can create their own shot, but RJ had the same limitations as Bullock in terms of shot creation. He can drive, but the results are mostly inefficient. At least Bullock was efficient in his role.


if bullock was the key to our success it should be fairly easy to find another mediocre wing defender who is a streaky shooter and put them in there. they could even try out Burks who has been a pesky defender or maybe Grimes from the guys we already have. Burks actually leads the team in DBPM right now


Bullock is back to being what he always was - an inconsistent role player. This isn’t anything new for the guy. He shot 44% from deep on Detroit in 2017 and 34% on the Lakers the following year. In 2019 he shot 33% from deep in NY and then in 2020 he shot 41%. Now on Dallas he’s shooting 29% from deep and 37% FG in 23min a night playing next to Luka.

People seem to forget this about him and that he’s another run of the mill shooter who is a slightly above average defender.

He was just another player who enjoyed shooting in an empty gym like the rest of our scrub losers. Take his TS% and flush it down the toilet like the rest of this dumpster fire in MSG.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#295 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:40 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?
What do you think the Knicks goals are?

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Emulate what the Nets did, putting a "competitive" team on the floor that can get free agents to sign here, but unfortunately guys are all locked into deals which eliminates the free agent superstar signings. They hired Leon to woo free agents but didn't see the shift coming of guys taking deals and then forcing trades. There are several teams with more assets than us that can jump on any disgruntled stars out there.

We're always playing behind the 8 ball.

I don’t think that there any “superstars” out there to be signed. Who did you have in mind? Moreover, Burks, Kemba, Randle, and Fournier are all signed to tradeable contracts.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#296 » by prophet_of_rage » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:01 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?
What do you think the Knicks goals are?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk



Emulate what the Nets did, putting a "competitive" team on the floor that can get free agents to sign here, but unfortunately guys are all locked into deals which eliminates the free agent superstar signings. They hired Leon to woo free agents but didn't see the shift coming of guys taking deals and then forcing trades. There are several teams with more assets than us that can jump on any disgruntled stars out there.

We're always playing behind the 8 ball.
Their goal is to sellout. That's it.

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#297 » by prophet_of_rage » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:03 pm

robillionaire wrote:
duetta wrote:Randle was famous last season for his work ethic. I wonder how much being a father for the second time is impacting his workout regime - and if that accounts for the significant decline in his 3 point accuracy?


Well he went down from 41% to 35%

RJ went from 40% to 31%
Fournier went from 41% to 36%

Did they have any kids
That's indicative of a problem with the offence not the players.

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#298 » by El Poochio » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:08 pm

We are officially the worst team out of non tanking teams, probably worse than Lakers since THT's emergence
New Orleans Pelicans

B: Ice Træ | C. Payne | J. Butler
B: D. DiVincenzo | K. Huerter | F. Ntilikina
B: K. Middleton | D. Robinson | THT
B: PJ Tucker | J. Crowder | J. Landale
B: AD | Point Plum | N. Claxton

Legends of the Lateral Movement
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#299 » by F N 11 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:16 pm

Waiting for Knicks to win a big game to get me back feenin.
CEO of the not trading RJ club.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#300 » by Chanel Bomber » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:28 pm

RHODEY wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
RHODEY wrote: He's 6'8" and athletic, he can play the three. Give them Fournier and some picks..

He's not mobile enough, or have the handle, shot or feel for the game to play on the perimeter like that.

There's a reason why teams have played him almost exclusively at the 4 the last 5 years.


That actually isn't true...

Quoted from the Ringer

The best way to see Grant’s value is to look at the players he defended in the playoffs. Per NBA Advanced Stats, Grant’s three most frequent assignments were Kawhi Leonard, Donovan Mitchell, and LeBron James. Anthony Davis was no. 5, and Paul George was no. 7. The list of players who can match up with combo guards like Mitchell, supersized wings like LeBron and Kawhi, and new-age big men like Davis is incredibly short. And there is no real list for players with that kind of defensive versatility who can also shoot as well as Grant did from 3 last season (38.8 percent on 3.5 attempts per game).

Grant is exactly the type of player the Nuggets need around Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Their two young cornerstones are offensive-minded players who need their supporting cast to space the floor and guard players like LeBron and Davis. Grant comfortably switched assignments when defending the pick-and-roll between the Lakers’ two superstars in the playoffs, making their bread-and-butter play considerably less effective. The forward’s combination of size (6-foot-8 and 210 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan) and athleticism made him the perfect counterpart to Jokic up front.


If he wasn't mobile he wouldm't be able to do the above...in the playoffs.... he CAN defend the 3 position...and then some

That article must be from 2 years ago, when he still played for the Nuggets.

According to basketball-reference, Grant played 83% of his minutes at the 4 in Denver. He played the 3 only 15% of the time.

I was referring to his offense by the way. He can't be a 3. His handle, his shot and his mobility are subpar at the 3 on offense. They are adequate at the 4, even if he's inefficient. Moving to the 3 will only make him more inefficient - that's what generally happens when players move down a position.
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