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PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#301 » by YouthMovement » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:30 pm

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#302 » by Chanel Bomber » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:34 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
duetta wrote:Randle was famous last season for his work ethic. I wonder how much being a father for the second time is impacting his workout regime - and if that accounts for the significant decline in his 3 point accuracy?


Well he went down from 41% to 35%

RJ went from 40% to 31%
Fournier went from 41% to 36%

Did they have any kids
That's indicative of a problem with the offence not the players.

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It seems that opposing teams have figured out our offense, especially how we try to manufacture 3s.

Teams really had a hard time defending the Randle-Bullock pick-and-roll last year. Fournier isn't as good a screener as Bullock was. And teams probably got more familiar with our set plays during preseason.

I don't know - a lot of the time, it just seems that opposing defenses are ready for the pass that leads to the 3.

We're making wide open 3s at a good rate (40.5% which is 7th in the league), so we're not just missing shots.

Teams are defending us better this year. We look predictable.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#303 » by Chanel Bomber » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:44 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
If I had to bet, the Knicks agree with you, which is why the Knicks didn't commit big money long term to the roster around them



They gave Randle an extension and put a bunch of players around him, they are committed to him.


Yes, they extended him for significantly less than the MAX.

What's the alternative? Tanking?

If the Knicks cut Randle the day after the Hawks series, they would still need to put 15 players on the roster.

I don't understand how fielding a team that aims to be competitive with movable deals is synonymous with building around Julius Randle specifically.

You're right that they didn't go all in.

They hedged their bet.

They thought, let's sign a couple guys (eg Fournier) to see where it leads us and hopefully we can improve from last year - yet not commit too much long-term money in case it fails. They were not unreasonable in that regard.

But I think it's foolish to even consider that RJ and Randle can be guys to build around for the future. The Knicks needed to move on from at least one of those guys - although now I'm probably a proponent of moving both. So why not make a move while their value is still high, instead of waiting only to see their value drop. I don't think their value will ever get higher than last summer.

I think the Knicks should either rebuild or go all in. But because of the lack of a difference-maker available in FA or via trade, and the fact that Randle is unreliable even as a #2, I'd favor rebuilding through the draft. I thought there were logical trade partners in the lottery last draft. That was my approach.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#304 » by F N 11 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:03 pm

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#305 » by PeteW » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:03 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Well he went down from 41% to 35%

RJ went from 40% to 31%
Fournier went from 41% to 36%

Did they have any kids
That's indicative of a problem with the offence not the players.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

It seems that opposing teams have figured out our offense, especially how we try to manufacture 3s.

Teams really had a hard time defending the Randle-Bullock pick-and-roll last year. Fournier isn't as good a screener as Bullock was. And teams probably got more familiar with our set plays during preseason.

I don't know - a lot of the time, it just seems that opposing defenses are ready for the pass that leads to the 3.

We're making wide open 3s at a good rate (40.5% which is 7th in the league), so we're not just missing shots.

Teams are defending us better this year. We look predictable.


The pandemic season last year with no fans in the crowd helped 3PT% league wide. With fans back in the stands, and the refs calling less fouls this year, scoring is down and percentages are back down to earth. The percentages last year with RJ and Randle might have been an aberration.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#306 » by god shammgod » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:22 pm

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#307 » by robillionaire » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:24 pm

Buttah304 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Bullock was key to our success last season.

He was our only efficient scorer in the starting unit (our 5s aside), with an excellent true shooting percentage of 60.6%. He was an outlet for the entire starting line-up, with Randle serving mostly as a decoy.

Letting him go was a major mistake.

A lot of great teams have had off-ball players/spot-up shooters who can't put really the ball on the floor.

Yeah we needed more players who can create their own shot, but RJ had the same limitations as Bullock in terms of shot creation. He can drive, but the results are mostly inefficient. At least Bullock was efficient in his role.


if bullock was the key to our success it should be fairly easy to find another mediocre wing defender who is a streaky shooter and put them in there. they could even try out Burks who has been a pesky defender or maybe Grimes from the guys we already have. Burks actually leads the team in DBPM right now


Bullock is back to being what he always was - an inconsistent role player. This isn’t anything new for the guy. He shot 44% from deep on Detroit in 2017 and 34% on the Lakers the following year. In 2019 he shot 33% from deep in NY and then in 2020 he shot 41%. Now on Dallas he’s shooting 29% from deep and 37% FG in 23min a night playing next to Luka.

People seem to forget this about him and that he’s another run of the mill shooter who is a slightly above average defender.

He was just another player who enjoyed shooting in an empty gym like the rest of our scrub losers. Take his TS% and flush it down the toilet like the rest of this dumpster fire in MSG.


I agree yet Burks still puts up good percentages in full gyms so I guess they picked the right guy
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#308 » by god shammgod » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:24 pm

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#309 » by robillionaire » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:25 pm

god shammgod wrote:
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That is so sad
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#310 » by god shammgod » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:27 pm

robillionaire wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
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That is so sad


it's thanksgiving on thursday. i hope your turkey is dry, your mashed potatoes chunky and your stuffing taste like nothing but cooked celery.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#311 » by RHODEY » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:28 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:He's not mobile enough, or have the handle, shot or feel for the game to play on the perimeter like that.

There's a reason why teams have played him almost exclusively at the 4 the last 5 years.


That actually isn't true...

Quoted from the Ringer

The best way to see Grant’s value is to look at the players he defended in the playoffs. Per NBA Advanced Stats, Grant’s three most frequent assignments were Kawhi Leonard, Donovan Mitchell, and LeBron James. Anthony Davis was no. 5, and Paul George was no. 7. The list of players who can match up with combo guards like Mitchell, supersized wings like LeBron and Kawhi, and new-age big men like Davis is incredibly short. And there is no real list for players with that kind of defensive versatility who can also shoot as well as Grant did from 3 last season (38.8 percent on 3.5 attempts per game).

Grant is exactly the type of player the Nuggets need around Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Their two young cornerstones are offensive-minded players who need their supporting cast to space the floor and guard players like LeBron and Davis. Grant comfortably switched assignments when defending the pick-and-roll between the Lakers’ two superstars in the playoffs, making their bread-and-butter play considerably less effective. The forward’s combination of size (6-foot-8 and 210 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan) and athleticism made him the perfect counterpart to Jokic up front.


If he wasn't mobile he wouldm't be able to do the above...in the playoffs.... he CAN defend the 3 position...and then some

That article must be from 2 years ago, when he still played for the Nuggets.

According to basketball-reference, Grant played 83% of his minutes at the 4 in Denver. He played the 3 only 15% of the time.

I was referring to his offense by the way. He can't be a 3. His handle, his shot and his mobility are subpar at the 3 on offense. They are adequate at the 4, even if he's inefficient. Moving to the 3 will only make him more inefficient - that's what generally happens when players move down a position.


So in 2020 play offs (closer to a YEAR ago). His offensive numbers were solid. Even versus the Lakers he averaged 16 pts a game on .50 shooting....in the Western Conference finals. His handles have improved . Dude is a major reason they even made it that far,. I think he'd fit very well between JR and RJ and would restore defensive cohesion to our starting lineup.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#312 » by robillionaire » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:31 pm

god shammgod wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


That is so sad


it's thanksgiving on thursday. i hope your turkey is dry, your mashed potatoes chunky and your stuffing taste like nothing but cooked celery.


In the spirit of thankfulness I hope you can’t find your lighter and your local store is closed for the holiday so you have to light your menthol cigs on the burner of your stove and it works but the whole ordeal is very frustrating
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#313 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:32 pm

god shammgod wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


That is so sad


it's thanksgiving on thursday. i hope your turkey is dry, your mashed potatoes chunky and your stuffing taste like nothing but cooked celery.


Meanest thing you've ever said
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#314 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:34 pm

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#315 » by Chanel Bomber » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:36 pm

RHODEY wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
That actually isn't true...

Quoted from the Ringer



If he wasn't mobile he wouldm't be able to do the above...in the playoffs.... he CAN defend the 3 position...and then some

That article must be from 2 years ago, when he still played for the Nuggets.

According to basketball-reference, Grant played 83% of his minutes at the 4 in Denver. He played the 3 only 15% of the time.

I was referring to his offense by the way. He can't be a 3. His handle, his shot and his mobility are subpar at the 3 on offense. They are adequate at the 4, even if he's inefficient. Moving to the 3 will only make him more inefficient - that's what generally happens when players move down a position.


So in 2020 play offs (closer to a YEAR ago). His offensive numbers were solid. Even versus the Lakers he averaged 16 pts a game on .50 shooting....in the Western Conference finals. His handles have improved . Dude is a major reason they even made it that far,. I think he'd fit very well between JR and RJ and would restore defensive cohesion to our starting lineup.

But he did so playing the 4.

Whatever he did then (11.6 ppg, -11.5 on/off per 100 in the 2020 playoffs, it's not like he was contributing like crazy, he was a role player), is not translatable to the Knicks. He would be playing a different position and a different role here, which his skill set isn't suited for.

The Knicks would be playing two Randles at the same time - except one is a better passer than the other, and the other a better defender.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#316 » by evevale » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:37 pm

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is it 8 yet
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#317 » by Iron Mantis » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:38 pm

Maybe we get a game thread up before half-time?
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#318 » by El Poochio » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:43 pm

Lets be honest this team doesnt deserve a gt
New Orleans Pelicans

B: Ice Træ | C. Payne | J. Butler
B: D. DiVincenzo | K. Huerter | F. Ntilikina
B: K. Middleton | D. Robinson | THT
B: PJ Tucker | J. Crowder | J. Landale
B: AD | Point Plum | N. Claxton

Legends of the Lateral Movement
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#319 » by RHODEY » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:44 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:That article must be from 2 years ago, when he still played for the Nuggets.

According to basketball-reference, Grant played 83% of his minutes at the 4 in Denver. He played the 3 only 15% of the time.

I was referring to his offense by the way. He can't be a 3. His handle, his shot and his mobility are subpar at the 3 on offense. They are adequate at the 4, even if he's inefficient. Moving to the 3 will only make him more inefficient - that's what generally happens when players move down a position.


So in 2020 play offs (closer to a YEAR ago). His offensive numbers were solid. Even versus the Lakers he averaged 16 pts a game on .50 shooting....in the Western Conference finals. His handles have improved . Dude is a major reason they even made it that far,. I think he'd fit very well between JR and RJ and would restore defensive cohesion to our starting lineup.

But he did so playing the 4.

Whatever he did then (11.6 ppg, -11.5 on/off per 100 in the 2020 playoffs, it's not like he was contributing like crazy, he was a role player), is not translatable to the Knicks. He would be playing a different position and a different role here, which his skill set isn't suited for.

The Knicks would be playing two Randles at the same time - except one is a better passer than the other, and the other a better defender.


We'll have to agree to disagree I think it would be translatable. He'd be filling the same roll as Bullock only with way better versatility on both sides of the ball. Randle cant guard 1-5 positions.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#320 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:49 pm

evevale wrote:Image

is it 8 yet


No and Moo has gone AWOL. He's shook by success
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