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PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#281 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:54 pm

Capn'O wrote:On the bright side... Charlotte pick is back to conveying as of today.

Man. RJ needs to start hitting his shots though. We don't have much if he doesn't look like much. That makes building forward much harder.


You know what's going to happen. They'll do what they do usually and falter down the stretch.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#282 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:54 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:On the bright side... Charlotte pick is back to conveying as of today.


do we want it to convey this year?


I would take it whenever or whatever we can get since a chance it may not convey at all
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#283 » by robillionaire » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:54 pm

Capn'O wrote:On the bright side... Charlotte pick is back to conveying as of today.

Man. RJ needs to start hitting his shots though. We don't have much if he doesn't look like much. That makes building forward much harder.


I don’t think I want it to convey

They want it in their back pocket as another trade chip for the next couple years, they don’t actually want to draft anyone
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#284 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:54 pm

Gravy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:To be fair I rewatched all the offensive possessions in the 3rd qtr(because I'm nuts?)


Looks like the overwhelming amount of offense was run through Kemba. Randle had only 1 possession where he ran down the clock to end the quarter and he was extremely efficient. Maybe it was the other quarters where he was hogging the ball and forcing everyone else to shoot with 1 sec left on the clock?



:lol:

"Hey guys, I went and looked at 1/4th of something to counter all the stats from the other 3/4ths you just used that come directly from NBA.com, checkmate"

That's basically your post. Impossible to debate anything with people who get actual data thrown in their face and come back with "Well, I watched". Cool.

Well yall are the same statisticians that said Frank is a great player because of his high +/- and the Knicks are the best team in the league when Payton is not playing so yes I have to watch the games myself. :lol: I like how all the bad stats in the offense are because of Randle even when he is not on the court.

4th Quarter: Still dont see Randle passing with 1 sec left on the clock every play and taking all the shots
randle comes in 7:06 with the team down 7
Rose to Randle to IQ jumper 13 seconds on clock
Rose to randle 13 sec randle to Burks 10 sec, burks to RJ
rj to randle to burks to IQ jumper 10 sec
randle to Burks jumper 13 sec
randle bad pass to IQ 13 sec
Rose to Randle to RJ 8 sec under basket
Rose to RJ
Rose to Randle 14 sec, Randle to Burks 8 sec, Burks back to Randle 3 sec, Randle to Burks
Rose fast break
Randle iso score
Rose drive Randle tip in
Randle iso 14 sec
RJ to IQ
Randle drive score
RJ drive



Ah, the bad faith arguments.

Also, where did I say 1 second? At least know what the stat is if you're gonna try and argue against it. A very late shot is defined as being with 4-0 seconds left on the clock, 20% of all the shots we took last night fit that criteria, or do you know more than NBA tracking data?

This is from last nights game
Image


We're 22nd in the league overall in that too.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#285 » by Capn'O » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:55 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:On the bright side... Charlotte pick is back to conveying as of today.


do we want it to convey this year?


I guess I could take or leave it. Def don't want to see it turn to 2nds.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#286 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:55 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:The reason we lost:

Image

A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing



This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.
Those numbers and situations don't fall on Randle. They fall on Thibs. He's the guy that installed this offence. Randle isn't rebelling and breaking the offence.

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#287 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:55 pm

robillionaire wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Yes it does, Payton was also a terrible defender statistically



Russ can't play with centers, your beloved Nerlens would be bench bound, so I say we should get him just to see you suffer :nod:


He should be a bench center anyway. He just has to start here because the team is so devoid of talent and crippled.

As long as he’s on the team I’m good. Plus I’d just say the reason we were losing is because they weren’t playing him enough so it all works out



You're the worst :lol:
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#288 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:56 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:The reason we lost:

Image

A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing



This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.
Those numbers and situations don't fall on Randle. They fall on Thibs. He's the guy that installed this offence. Randle isn't rebelling and breaking the offence.

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Yep.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#289 » by mpharris36 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:56 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:On the bright side... Charlotte pick is back to conveying as of today.


do we want it to convey this year?


I would take it whenever or whatever we can get since a chance it may not convey at all


it might be a year too early though if they aren't ready to make a trade and have to make the selection or trade out you rarely get $1 for $1 value for it.

The once you have to take the car off the lot situation where the value depreciates.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#290 » by mpharris36 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:56 pm

Capn'O wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:On the bright side... Charlotte pick is back to conveying as of today.


do we want it to convey this year?


I guess I could take or leave it. Def don't want to see it turn to 2nds.


thats true but ideally it would convey the next year which is likely the "double" draft.
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Michael Porter Jr/De'Andre Hunter/Udonis Haslem
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#291 » by Capn'O » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:57 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
do we want it to convey this year?


I would take it whenever or whatever we can get since a chance it may not convey at all


it might be a year too early though if they aren't ready to make a trade and have to make the selection or trade out you rarely get $1 for $1 value for it.

The once you have to take the car off the lot situation where the value depreciates.


It'd be easier to trade in-season if it looks like it will convey :dontknow:
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RIP Mags :beer:
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#292 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:57 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:On the bright side... Charlotte pick is back to conveying as of today.


do we want it to convey this year?


I would take it whenever or whatever we can get since a chance it may not convey at all


I just don't want to see them turn it into 2 future 2nd round picks. Not sure about how anyone else feels about it.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#293 » by Capn'O » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:58 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
do we want it to convey this year?


I would take it whenever or whatever we can get since a chance it may not convey at all


I just don't want to see them turn it into 2 future 2nd round picks. Not sure about how anyone else feels about it.


That'd be the worst.
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SF: PG13, Craig
PF: DFS, JM Green
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RIP Mags :beer:
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#294 » by robillionaire » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:58 pm

It would take 4 years for that Hornets pick to convey into 2 2nds. If they haven’t included that pick in a trade for something by then Leon Rose is probably fired
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#295 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:59 pm

nedleeds wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.


I'm eating. Can somebody get Ewing and Melo's shooting efficiency vs. league average. Or wake me up when Randle is league average.


Lol it's even more laughable than I thought. Ewing was a god damn force.

Image

Randle

Image

Melo was also a **** chucker but not as bad as Randle

Image
And the fans ran Ewing out of town.

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#296 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:59 pm

Capn'O wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
I would take it whenever or whatever we can get since a chance it may not convey at all


it might be a year too early though if they aren't ready to make a trade and have to make the selection or trade out you rarely get $1 for $1 value for it.

The once you have to take the car off the lot situation where the value depreciates.


It'd be easier to trade in-season if it looks like it will convey :dontknow:


Or flip it again at the draft.

Probably doesnt have a ton of value with all the protections. If it actually conveys into a first at any point I would just take it
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#297 » by Gravy » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:59 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

:lol:

"Hey guys, I went and looked at 1/4th of something to counter all the stats from the other 3/4ths you just used that come directly from NBA.com, checkmate"

That's basically your post. Impossible to debate anything with people who get actual data thrown in their face and come back with "Well, I watched". Cool.

Well yall are the same statisticians that said Frank is a great player because of his high +/- and the Knicks are the best team in the league when Payton is not playing so yes I have to watch the games myself. :lol: I like how all the bad stats in the offense are because of Randle even when he is not on the court.

4th Quarter: Still dont see Randle passing with 1 sec left on the clock every play and taking all the shots
randle comes in 7:06 with the team down 7
Rose to Randle to IQ jumper 13 seconds on clock
Rose to randle 13 sec randle to Burks 10 sec, burks to RJ
rj to randle to burks to IQ jumper 10 sec
randle to Burks jumper 13 sec
randle bad pass to IQ 13 sec
Rose to Randle to RJ 8 sec under basket
Rose to RJ
Rose to Randle 14 sec, Randle to Burks 8 sec, Burks back to Randle 3 sec, Randle to Burks
Rose fast break
Randle iso score
Rose drive Randle tip in
Randle iso 14 sec
RJ to IQ
Randle drive score
RJ drive



Ah, the bad faith arguments.

Also, where did I say 1 second? At least know what the stat is if you're gonna try and argue against it. A very late shot is defined as being with 4-0 seconds left on the clock, 20% of all the shots we took last night fit that criteria, or do you know more than NBA tracking data?

This is from last nights game
Image


We're 22nd in the league overall in that too.

OK but how many of those shots with less than 4 seconds on the clock were because of Randle?
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#298 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:01 pm

whocares1 wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
Cant compare Rose and RJ man.

Rose is over a decade older and obv has a bad injury history. He did get hurt a few weeks ago so maybe he hasn't fully recovered from that. Was playing great before. While RJ has always been unathletic and an iffy finisher. Rose is way more athletic than RJ right now and that's sad as hell. I wasn't fooled by RJ's couple good games this year. All the numbers and eye test tell me he's not going to be anything great, maybe not even anything good. Hope he proves us wrong for real but I'm not going to ignore what I'm seeing. Meanwhile guys like Obi and IQ, who have shown real flashes of stardom, are buried on the bench.


Acting like RJ has only had a couple of good games this year is a ridiculous take. He was playing well last year too. I'm not saying he will be the second coming of Jordan but...the kid has improved every season on some things and is younger than many players drafted in his third year. This board was all about RJ a couple of weeks ago...now they are all against him. Typical fashion around here. Game to game reactions and "analysis". It's a joke.

Obi plays 10-15 mpg. IQ has been inconsistent since day one and isn't getting a ton of minutes either. Neither have shown any more flashes of stardom than RJ has. That's ridiculous to say.

Play them both 30-35 mpg and see what happens.


I don’t get the concept of being blindly loyal to a player that plays on our team especially when they are no longer playing well. Saying things like “a couple weeks ago everyone was all for RJ” I can assure you that every Knicks fans wants RJ to succeed bc it benefits all of us but how are we supposed to keep optimism for a player playing as badly as he has for as long as a stretch he has? I would say the RJ stuff has gone mostly under the radar especially outside of Realgm and the focus has been on Randle.

But RJ has been terrible on both ends. He is missing wide open layups and causing fast breaks on the other end. He doesn’t deserve the blind homerism.
The point is this board males these nuclear hot takes and then reverses itself shortly with equally nuclear reactions that make both positions look silly when read a day later.

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#299 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:01 pm

robillionaire wrote:It would take 4 years for that Hornets pick to convey into 2 2nds. If they haven’t included that pick in a trade for something by then Leon Rose is probably fired


By then Isiah will be back in charge so we will need all the future firsts we can get for trade bait
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#300 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:01 pm

Gravy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:Well yall are the same statisticians that said Frank is a great player because of his high +/- and the Knicks are the best team in the league when Payton is not playing so yes I have to watch the games myself. :lol: I like how all the bad stats in the offense are because of Randle even when he is not on the court.

4th Quarter: Still dont see Randle passing with 1 sec left on the clock every play and taking all the shots



Ah, the bad faith arguments.

Also, where did I say 1 second? At least know what the stat is if you're gonna try and argue against it. A very late shot is defined as being with 4-0 seconds left on the clock, 20% of all the shots we took last night fit that criteria, or do you know more than NBA tracking data?

This is from last nights game
Image


We're 22nd in the league overall in that too.

OK but how many of those shots with less than 4 seconds on the clock were because of Randle?


Image

If one guy touches the ball on 75% of your possessions and 45% of your front court possessions, I'd say most of them.

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