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PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#301 » by mpharris36 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:03 pm

robillionaire wrote:It would take 4 years for that Hornets pick to convey into 2 2nds. If they haven’t included that pick in a trade for something by then Leon Rose is probably fired


basically
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#302 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:04 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.


Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.



Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.
Your argument applies to the point you're trying to make. It makes no sense to blame Randle for an offence designed and implemented by Thibodeau.

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#303 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:10 pm

There's enough blame to go around where it can be managements fault for putting the team together, players fault for playing poorly, and Thibs fault for not making the right adjustments.

It does seem like all are true
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#304 » by Gravy » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:10 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

Ah, the bad faith arguments.

Also, where did I say 1 second? At least know what the stat is if you're gonna try and argue against it. A very late shot is defined as being with 4-0 seconds left on the clock, 20% of all the shots we took last night fit that criteria, or do you know more than NBA tracking data?

This is from last nights game
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We're 22nd in the league overall in that too.

OK but how many of those shots with less than 4 seconds on the clock were because of Randle?


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If one guy touches the ball on 75% of your possessions and 45% of your front court possessions, I'd say most of them.

And thats why I went through every offensive possession in the 2nd half. Randle was efficient and was directly responsible for maybe 2 plays with less than 4 seconds left in that half. Your math is that you are biased against him so you assume he was the problem.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#305 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:13 pm

Gravy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:OK but how many of those shots with less than 4 seconds on the clock were because of Randle?


Image

If one guy touches the ball on 75% of your possessions and 45% of your front court possessions, I'd say most of them.

And thats why I went through every offensive possession in the 2nd half. Randle was efficient and was directly responsible for maybe 2 plays with less than 4 seconds left in that half. Your math is that you are biased against him so you assume he was the problem.



:lol: Look at what you just said, the 2nd half, leaving out an entire half of basketball. My math is literally just the math, we average 101 possessions per game, he touches the ball 75 times, 45 times in the front court, call me biased all you want, but at least I bring data that can be verified to the table. All you have is "Well I watched 1 half of something". Cool.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#306 » by Gravy » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:16 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Image

If one guy touches the ball on 75% of your possessions and 45% of your front court possessions, I'd say most of them.

And thats why I went through every offensive possession in the 2nd half. Randle was efficient and was directly responsible for maybe 2 plays with less than 4 seconds left in that half. Your math is that you are biased against him so you assume he was the problem.



:lol: Look at what you just said, the 2nd half, leaving out an entire half of basketball. My math is literally just the math, we average 101 possessions per game, he touches the ball 75 times, 45 times in the front court, call me biased all you want, but at least I bring data that can be verified to the table. All you have is "Well I watched 1 half of something". Cool.

ugh, you going to make me watch all those awful Fournier plays in the 1st qtr now. Terrible terrible person..
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#307 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:18 pm

Gravy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gravy wrote:And thats why I went through every offensive possession in the 2nd half. Randle was efficient and was directly responsible for maybe 2 plays with less than 4 seconds left in that half. Your math is that you are biased against him so you assume he was the problem.



:lol: Look at what you just said, the 2nd half, leaving out an entire half of basketball. My math is literally just the math, we average 101 possessions per game, he touches the ball 75 times, 45 times in the front court, call me biased all you want, but at least I bring data that can be verified to the table. All you have is "Well I watched 1 half of something". Cool.

ugh, you going to make me watch all those awful Fournier plays in the 1st qtr now. Terrible terrible person..

I never said I wasn't a terrible person

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#308 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:18 pm

Somehow we are 12th in offensive efficiency. That is a miracle
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#309 » by Gravy » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:21 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.



Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.
Your argument applies to the point you're trying to make. It makes no sense to blame Randle for an offence designed and implemented by Thibodeau.

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Randle getting blamed for the bench not scoring either when he's not in the game, its wild
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#310 » by DaGawd » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:24 pm

Meanwhile…. Mitchell Robinson folks….




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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#311 » by Are We Ther Yet » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:24 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.



Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.
Your argument applies to the point you're trying to make. It makes no sense to blame Randle for an offence designed and implemented by Thibodeau.

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I didn't see him blaming Randle for what's being run. I wouldn't. I would like to see different wrinkles and adjustments made. I hate the idea of playing the same rotation for 82 games as well. The team is easy to defend and that's where moo is making his point. What else can you run? Who do you want to run the offense through. Idk....ANYONE AND EVERYONE! Move the ball. Take what the defense gives you. Yada yada yada. The team is pretty boring and isn't a contender. At least we can root for wins(or losses if you wish) for a change. That's the only thing we can control anyway.

Whatever whatever. Thibs and the FO share the blame but...this is the way they are building. Buckle up. It's only 17 games into year 2. Give it time?
:beer: RIP mags
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#312 » by mpharris36 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:25 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:There's enough blame to go around where it can be managements fault for putting the team together, players fault for playing poorly, and Thibs fault for not making the right adjustments.

It does seem like all are true


Agreed

The guys with track records need to play better
Thibs needs to adjust to who's playing well faster (if Obi is playing well, which he has, find more minutes for him) don't always just trust "vets".

FO took our identity away to basically try to build a team to beat the Atlanta Hawks.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#313 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:25 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Somehow we are 12th in offensive efficiency. That is a miracle



We're free falling though, we were 6th like a week ago, but over the last 10 games we're 23rd, while the defense has been creeping back and is 13th over that time period. It's going to be hard to find a balance because of the roster construction.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#314 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:26 pm

DaGawd wrote:Meanwhile…. Mitchell Robinson folks….




Image


Is he going at it with Wiseman? :lol:
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#315 » by mpharris36 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:27 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Somehow we are 12th in offensive efficiency. That is a miracle


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ROSTER

Robert Williams III/Chris Boucher/Daniel Gafford
Michael Porter Jr/De'Andre Hunter/Udonis Haslem
RJ Barrett/Trey Murphy III/Georges Niang
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#316 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:29 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Somehow we are 12th in offensive efficiency. That is a miracle



We're free falling though, we were 6th like a week ago, but over the last 10 games we're 23rd, while the defense has been creeping back and is 13th over that time period. It's going to be hard to find a balance because of the roster construction.


Yea, offense has been pretty bad latley. Maybe a few hot shooting games still carrying us.

It is good to see the defense creep back up. Not enough 2 way players so it is tough to find that balance...plus as we all know no true #1 guy
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#317 » by mpharris36 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:31 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Somehow we are 12th in offensive efficiency. That is a miracle



We're free falling though, we were 6th like a week ago, but over the last 10 games we're 23rd, while the defense has been creeping back and is 13th over that time period. It's going to be hard to find a balance because of the roster construction.


Yea, offense has been pretty bad latley. Maybe a few hot shooting games still carrying us.

It is good to see the defense creep back up. Not enough 2 way players so it is tough to find that balance...plus as we all know no true #1 guy


yeah we were #2 in the top 5 for the early part of the season and have been slipping since. The top 5 offense was just unsustainable for this unit since we were hitting 3's at a ridiculous rate. The problem is now we don't have our defense to fall back on.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#318 » by DaGawd » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:32 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Meanwhile…. Mitchell Robinson folks….




Image


Is he going at it with Wiseman? :lol:

Nah lol. Some random fans
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#319 » by Besart19 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:34 pm

Rose / McBride
Burks / Quickley
Grimes / Fournier
Toppin / Barrett
Randle / Gibson
Knicks will be the new Warriors by 2021
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#320 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:35 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:There's enough blame to go around where it can be managements fault for putting the team together, players fault for playing poorly, and Thibs fault for not making the right adjustments.

It does seem like all are true


Agreed

The guys with track records need to play better
Thibs needs to adjust to who's playing well faster (if Obi is playing well, which he has, find more minutes for him) don't always just trust "vets".

FO took our identity away to basically try to build a team to beat the Atlanta Hawks.


Yea, feels like a lot of different things are going wrong when last year a lot of things went our way. Still, we are not far off from last year's pace. Its not a bad as it seems. But things can go downhill fast if we don't adjust.

Have to find more minutes for Obi and IQ when they are playing well, especially when starters are struggling. And something needs to give with the starters. Fournier looks like a classic bad knicks signing so far. I wasn't crazy about him but he can't be this bad, can he??
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