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PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#341 » by HINrichPolice » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:57 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
HINrichPolice wrote:Bulls fan here. I think you all are being too tough on your team, at least based on last night's performance. The reality is that the Bulls are a legitimately good team, and losing to the Bulls in a relatively close game should no longer be something to feel bad about.


Your team is better

Our team is not gelling and there will have to be significant changes

It is what it is, but I don’t think we’re in denial. As fans we’re facing the music for the most part


For someone that hasn't been following the Knicks, I thought you guys started off great. The loss to the Knicks earlier this season made me feel like the Bulls were still at or below whatever tier the Knicks are on.

I think you all just force fed Randle because the Bulls were playing small, and in theory, that would be a smart way to play, but our guys just have abnormally active hands and are effective at doubling. That's the Bulls being good more than the Knicks being bad.

Still really like the talent you all have. Quickley is a beast, Toppin showed flashes, and I think vets like Walker and Fournier figure it out throughout the season. RJ was a legit problem in our first matchup. Didn't realize you all were so down on him.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#342 » by BugginOut » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:00 pm

I’m going to keep saying it until it happens, but the obvious solution is to start Burks.

Like the Bulls have shown having a strong POA defender is essential at the guard spot. Kemba and Fournier are our worst guard defenders. Burks has been clutch and has been closing games anyway cause he is consistent on both sides. He brings that energy the starters need and has great chemistry with Randle.

Fournier would be better off the bench. I thought he would be great in the Bullock C&S role, but he barely moves to get open and I don’t think he gets in a rhythm unless the ball is in his hand. He needs to go from being a 4th option with the starters to the 2nd/3rd option off the bench. Fournier came off the bench for the Celtics and was lights out shooting 45% from 3 and that’s because he had a defined 6th man role. The Hawks are paying Gallo 20 million to come off the bench, salaries should not determine who start.

It is a risk to break up the bench, but I think in this case it will let everyone have a clear defined role
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#343 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:00 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:Sham needs to make the next GT

We're playing his team tomorrow

No. I did the last one. Plus I’m rooting for the Lakers. Wouldn’t be right.


but that was Sham as Pseudo-Moo. Now you can be the real Sham

oh never mind


:lol: Yeah don't go there...
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#344 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:03 pm

BugginOut wrote:I’m going to keep saying it until it happens, but the obvious solution is to start Burks.

Like the Bulls have shown having a strong POA defender is essential at the guard spot. Kemba and Fournier are our worst guard defenders. Burks has been clutch and closing games anyway and brings that energy the starters need

Fournier would be better off the bench. I thought he would be great in the Bullock C&S role, but he barely moves to get open and I don’t think he gets in a rhythm unless the ball is in his hand. He needs to go from being a 4th option with the starters to the 2nd/3rd option off the bench. Fournier came off the bench for the Celtics and was lights out. The Hawks are paying Gallo 20 million to come off the bench, salaries should not determine who start.

It is a risk to break up the bench, but I think in this case it will let everyone have a clear defined role


Starting Burks might be the only move they can make and probably the best. I think if they can't find that top tier shot creator (and assuming they want to keep trying to win) their next best shot is maybe making a deal for a guy that's the next level down that can also defend and bring some length. We talked about Jerami Grant or similar. Someone that can offer enough offense to be better than many of the options they do have AND provide an uptick defensively.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#345 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:07 pm

HINrichPolice wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
HINrichPolice wrote:Bulls fan here. I think you all are being too tough on your team, at least based on last night's performance. The reality is that the Bulls are a legitimately good team, and losing to the Bulls in a relatively close game should no longer be something to feel bad about.


Your team is better

Our team is not gelling and there will have to be significant changes

It is what it is, but I don’t think we’re in denial. As fans we’re facing the music for the most part


For someone that hasn't been following the Knicks, I thought you guys started off great. The loss to the Knicks earlier this season made me feel like the Bulls were still at or below whatever tier the Knicks are on.

I think you all just force fed Randle because the Bulls were playing small, and in theory, that would be a smart way to play, but our guys just have abnormally active hands and are effective at doubling. That's the Bulls being good more than the Knicks being bad.

Still really like the talent you all have. Quickley is a beast, Toppin showed flashes, and I think vets like Walker and Fournier figure it out throughout the season. RJ was a legit problem in our first matchup. Didn't realize you all were so down on him.


Yes and no. I think the query/debate that is going on is whether the reason why the Knicks are struggling on offense because they go to Randle so much or is it because they just don't have another consistent top tier shot creator and, therefore, are forced to go to Randle so much.

I think the general consensus on this board is that the Knicks go to Randle too much and that it bogs the offense down. I don't think too many Knick fans disagree with that.

The discussion points center around what are the alternatives.

The Bulls, for example, have 2 elite shot creators (Derozan and Lavine). What that means it's not near as easy to defend the Bulls than it is the Knicks. The Hawks in the playoffs basically printed out the "How to defend the Knicks" handbook to a tee. You do whatever it takes to hound and bother Randle when the ball goes to him (and it inevitably has to cause the Knicks don't have another top tier shot creator). Throw Randle off his game and the "Bad Randle" starts coming out. Then the cascading effect down stream to everyone else.

Of course, the counter argument is that ok, you don't go to Randle as much but then what? Someone has to be the focal point and be able to score especially when you play the better teams in the NBA who have guys that can defend real well. Rose is at a point in his career where he simply cannot play more than about 20-25 minutes a night. You can see him on tail ends of back to backs or every other game or so being with tired legs. Walker is too close to being just worth the $9 million that the Knicks are paying him and not the "big bargain" that they thought they were getting. No one else on this team has had any history anywhere that they can be a primary option.

Ergo...back to Randle.

So it's kind of a Rock and a Hard Place here. Why many of us have been really crying (bitching, moaning, etc.) for the Knicks front office to find another top tier shot creator to pair with Randle so the chances of "Bad Randle" coming out is less. Hasn't happened yet. And the concern is that, based on 30+ years of recent Knick history, where the Knicks front office has consistently failed to add another star to the one star they've managed to have ultimately always left the Knicks out in the cold, it may not happen with this regime either.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#346 » by god shammgod » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:10 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#347 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:14 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Read on Twitter


And there you go on why I said I just appreciate whatever we can get out of Rose right now and don't see him as an option to solve the Knicks current issues. Love both these guys, they're my 2 most favorite players on the team right now. But neither guy represent any part of the Cavalry that may (or may not) be coming over the hill to help this team.

Maybe time to bring Deuce back and we free the McBride.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#348 » by Ray Williams » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:19 pm

moocow007 wrote:
BugginOut wrote:I’m going to keep saying it until it happens, but the obvious solution is to start Burks.

Like the Bulls have shown having a strong POA defender is essential at the guard spot. Kemba and Fournier are our worst guard defenders. Burks has been clutch and closing games anyway and brings that energy the starters need

Fournier would be better off the bench. I thought he would be great in the Bullock C&S role, but he barely moves to get open and I don’t think he gets in a rhythm unless the ball is in his hand. He needs to go from being a 4th option with the starters to the 2nd/3rd option off the bench. Fournier came off the bench for the Celtics and was lights out. The Hawks are paying Gallo 20 million to come off the bench, salaries should not determine who start.

It is a risk to break up the bench, but I think in this case it will let everyone have a clear defined role


Starting Burks might be the only move they can make and probably the best. I think if they can't find that top tier shot creator (and assuming they want to keep trying to win) their next best shot is maybe making a deal for a guy that's the next level down that can also defend and bring some length. We talked about Jerami Grant or similar. Someone that can offer enough offense to be better than many of the options they do have AND provide an uptick defensively.


Is Deuce ever going to get a shot? He and Grimes can’t do worse than what we have starting now, and I guarantee you they are both better defensively. Make defense the main focus of this team again.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#349 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:23 pm

Ray Williams wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
BugginOut wrote:I’m going to keep saying it until it happens, but the obvious solution is to start Burks.

Like the Bulls have shown having a strong POA defender is essential at the guard spot. Kemba and Fournier are our worst guard defenders. Burks has been clutch and closing games anyway and brings that energy the starters need

Fournier would be better off the bench. I thought he would be great in the Bullock C&S role, but he barely moves to get open and I don’t think he gets in a rhythm unless the ball is in his hand. He needs to go from being a 4th option with the starters to the 2nd/3rd option off the bench. Fournier came off the bench for the Celtics and was lights out. The Hawks are paying Gallo 20 million to come off the bench, salaries should not determine who start.

It is a risk to break up the bench, but I think in this case it will let everyone have a clear defined role


Starting Burks might be the only move they can make and probably the best. I think if they can't find that top tier shot creator (and assuming they want to keep trying to win) their next best shot is maybe making a deal for a guy that's the next level down that can also defend and bring some length. We talked about Jerami Grant or similar. Someone that can offer enough offense to be better than many of the options they do have AND provide an uptick defensively.


Is Deuce ever going to get a shot? He and Grimes can’t do worse than what we have starting now, and I guarantee you they are both better defensively. Make defense the main focus of this team again.


At this point it may not be a bad idea to throw either one of those guys out there and see what they can do.

A perfect game would have been against the Bulls to bring back Deuce and play him some major minutes and see what you got. The Bulls were going to play small. Since it was the 2nd game of a back-to-back you knew that both Rose and Walker were not going to be in the mix a lot or not as impactful. Then factor in just how bad we've been guarding the perimeter and overall defensive energy (the two things that Deuce is supposed to be NBA caliber at) and yeah if I was Thibs I would have summoned Deuce to come to Chicago with the team and try to get him in. Especially when the Knicks defense were sagging bad. Bring him in when you need some stops, then you can pull him out again if you think you need a more reliable offensive guy (like Rose or Walker or whatever).

Preventing a perimeter oriented team like the Bulls from getting into a groove offensively was key. The Knicks old, tired, slow perimeter legs have consistently been a problem this season and has resulted in way too many opposing players left open for wide wide open 3's. And we're not talking about even short windows...talking about 2 or 3 seconds worth of wide open which in the NBA is an eternity. I've been counting one one-hundred, two one-hundred every time the Knicks rotate and a man is wide open in the corner for the other team. It takes the Knick that's doubling the ball an eternity to get back. That's not lack of effort as much as lack of physical ability to do so.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#350 » by Iron Mantis » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:26 pm

If this stretch of games puts the Knicks under water...might as well tank.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#351 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:28 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:If this stretch of games puts the Knicks under water...might as well tank.


Yeah. They need to try to move in one or the other direction and not sit around hoping things will get better. This upcoming stretch is brutal and if they really bottom out maybe thoughts of doing exactly that should come up. Unlikely though cause how do you (the front office) justify their own positions if they have to scratch it and restart again. I just don't see it regardless of whether it makes sense or not. That's why I've been more so pushing for going to the other direction and trying to make some noise in a deep but not overly dominant Eastern Conference. Either or. Not this. This is heading nowhere and no tweaking of the lineup is going to make a big enough difference in the overall picture.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#352 » by Capn'O » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:38 pm

HINrichPolice wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
HINrichPolice wrote:Bulls fan here. I think you all are being too tough on your team, at least based on last night's performance. The reality is that the Bulls are a legitimately good team, and losing to the Bulls in a relatively close game should no longer be something to feel bad about.


Your team is better

Our team is not gelling and there will have to be significant changes

It is what it is, but I don’t think we’re in denial. As fans we’re facing the music for the most part


For someone that hasn't been following the Knicks, I thought you guys started off great. The loss to the Knicks earlier this season made me feel like the Bulls were still at or below whatever tier the Knicks are on.

I think you all just force fed Randle because the Bulls were playing small, and in theory, that would be a smart way to play, but our guys just have abnormally active hands and are effective at doubling. That's the Bulls being good more than the Knicks being bad.

Still really like the talent you all have. Quickley is a beast, Toppin showed flashes, and I think vets like Walker and Fournier figure it out throughout the season. RJ was a legit problem in our first matchup. Didn't realize you all were so down on him.


RJ's been going through a bit of a rough patch after looking like he was breaking out. We were on cloud 9 after the first game with him though so go figure.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#353 » by WajaBawl » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:39 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Read on Twitter


Another opportunity to let IQ run the point and let Grimes get a shot. Knowing how stubborn Thibs is he's probably just gonna play RJ and Burks heavy minutes and stagger them.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#354 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:49 pm

WajaBawl wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Read on Twitter


Another opportunity to let IQ run the point and let Grimes get a shot. Knowing how stubborn Thibs is he's probably just gonna play RJ and Burks heavy minutes and stagger them.


I would try Deuce. Give Deuce a shot at guarding Westbrook. 8-)
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#355 » by WajaBawl » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:00 pm

moocow007 wrote:
WajaBawl wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Read on Twitter


Another opportunity to let IQ run the point and let Grimes get a shot. Knowing how stubborn Thibs is he's probably just gonna play RJ and Burks heavy minutes and stagger them.


I would try Deuce. Give Deuce a shot at guarding Westbrook. 8-)


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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#356 » by El Poochio » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:01 pm

LeBron suspended for next game? Probably bad news for us with THT unleashed
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#357 » by Jimmit79 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:22 pm

Think by now everyone not from canada should be convinced RJ is not a top 4 scoring option because he's a long term skills development project and the 5 good game stretch was the worst thing for his development cause he started thinking he's Randle lvl good and now he's lost confidence in even shooting the ball. He would have been better off playing like last year until he developed his skills more but no patience with this dude.

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#358 » by Jimmit79 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:23 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:If this stretch of games puts the Knicks under water...might as well tank.
And tanking will only get you another RJ with the knicks luck and perry's track record.

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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#359 » by KnixtapeH20 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:34 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:If this stretch of games puts the Knicks under water...might as well tank.

Why do ppl on here keep mentioning tanking like you don't know who Thibs is. We're going to play for wins until the season is over.
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Re: PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better 

Post#360 » by louisorr » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:09 am

At this point I'm hoping Thibs gets a mild case of covid and Dice can run the team for a few games.
We have to see if it's the coach or not.

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