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PG: We won and I'm upset.

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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#361 » by Gravy » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:45 pm

TheGreenArrow could be a parody account that represents the wild emotional extremes and erratic nature of sports fanbases. At least thats how I like to read his posts :lol:
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#362 » by Handledatruth » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:54 pm

K-DOT wrote:I don't agree with the "Obi should start" line of thinking

I think Randle needs to get back to playing how he was last year, starting on defense.

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And rebounding. It must be frustrating to be Mitch or Noel consistently contesting shots while your starting power forward cant find a body to box out. The best defensive possessions end on a rebound and we start a true 4 that fails to do this.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#363 » by DaGawd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:57 pm

WajaBawl wrote:Some of y'all severely overrate the Lakers. They are legitimately ass. Westbrick is turnover prone and washed, Melo a shell of his former self, and ADisney is also overrated. They didn't even have LeBron last night.

I mean come on, stop lying to yourself. This is the team that lost to OKC not once, but twice. The game got close because we cannot play 48 minutes of consistent decent basketball. It has a lot more to do with our own ineptitude than the Lakers being legit.
We let Russel Westbrick shoot 50% from 3 ffs.

Westbrook is capable of having stretches of play like last night still. He’s not a scrub even if he looks like one at times. The lakers undeniably are a talented team.. they just don’t/can’t play defense and can be exploited
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#364 » by nykfan42 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:20 pm

K-DOT wrote:
nykfan42 wrote:
nedleeds wrote:Our power forward shot 41% with 4 turnovers and was -2.

He's shooting a career low 42.2% from the field this year. He's an inefficient chucker, enabled by a calcified coach who won't adjust or watch film and tell him to stop it.

Welcome to hell.

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I'm not sure what that grid means exactly but I see a lot of players that are trash. A PF shooting 42% is pathetic.


It's a comparison of win shares in a season. Randle is in his 8th season, so there's 7 complete seasons for him

It then looks at every player's first 7 seasons, and tries to find guys with a similar spread of win shares, and that's what it comes up with. The similarity score is how close they are, on a per year basis. Meaning it's trying to find guys who had a similar high, a similar low, and similar seasons in between, not just an average so you don't have outliers in there

I wouldn't put much stock into it, cause win shares is a bs stat through and through. There's plenty of ways to criticize Randle, but just posting the Bball ref similarity scores isn't one of them. I mean, for reference, Lebron's sim scores have Dirk as 2nd closest, and Dolph Schayes in the top 10. Granted, Dirk is rated at 83.4 to LeBron while everyone for Randle is 87.2 or higher (bigger the number, closer the player allegedly is), meaning that Randle's comps should be much closer to him than everyone except Malone is to LeBron, but still. Very flawed stat.

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So its basically some stat that is supposed to correlate wins and how well they play? Eh I agree I don't like these type of stats either. I also don't need them to show me how bad he is playing.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#365 » by K-DOT » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:27 pm

nykfan42 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
nykfan42 wrote:I'm not sure what that grid means exactly but I see a lot of players that are trash. A PF shooting 42% is pathetic.


It's a comparison of win shares in a season. Randle is in his 8th season, so there's 7 complete seasons for him

It then looks at every player's first 7 seasons, and tries to find guys with a similar spread of win shares, and that's what it comes up with. The similarity score is how close they are, on a per year basis. Meaning it's trying to find guys who had a similar high, a similar low, and similar seasons in between, not just an average so you don't have outliers in there

I wouldn't put much stock into it, cause win shares is a bs stat through and through. There's plenty of ways to criticize Randle, but just posting the Bball ref similarity scores isn't one of them. I mean, for reference, Lebron's sim scores have Dirk as 2nd closest, and Dolph Schayes in the top 10. Granted, Dirk is rated at 83.4 to LeBron while everyone for Randle is 87.2 or higher (bigger the number, closer the player allegedly is), meaning that Randle's comps should be much closer to him than everyone except Malone is to LeBron, but still. Very flawed stat.

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So its basically some stat that is supposed to correlate wins and how well they play? Eh I agree I don't like these type of stats either. I also don't need them to show me how bad he is playing.

It's also only based on basic box score stats. Points, boards, assists, steals, blocks, etc., and has a pretty heavy bias towards rebounds

So for example, in this past year's draft, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl is 4th in win shares while Davion Mitchell is 15th. And even though it's a cumulative stat (meaning more minutes means more win shares), both Charles Bassey and Luka Garza are in the top 10, despite playing less than 100 minutes each. I'd say Garza and Bassey have both been fine, especially for late 2nds, and JRE isn't bad, but they're not top 10, and JRE especially isn't top 4 for rookies

I get the idea, but it's not well executed.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#366 » by Garbagelo » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:30 pm

I would start looking to see if people want to trade for Randle and RJ Barrett

Season is about to nose dive
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#367 » by KnicksGod » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:34 pm

Handledatruth wrote:
K-DOT wrote:I don't agree with the "Obi should start" line of thinking

I think Randle needs to get back to playing how he was last year, starting on defense.

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And rebounding. It must be frustrating to be Mitch or Noel consistently contesting shots while your starting power forward cant find a body to box out. The best defensive possessions end on a rebound and we start a true 4 that fails to do this.


He's never really changed on D. He was rescued by a very fine season from NN.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#368 » by nykfan42 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:50 pm

K-DOT wrote:
nykfan42 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
It's a comparison of win shares in a season. Randle is in his 8th season, so there's 7 complete seasons for him

It then looks at every player's first 7 seasons, and tries to find guys with a similar spread of win shares, and that's what it comes up with. The similarity score is how close they are, on a per year basis. Meaning it's trying to find guys who had a similar high, a similar low, and similar seasons in between, not just an average so you don't have outliers in there

I wouldn't put much stock into it, cause win shares is a bs stat through and through. There's plenty of ways to criticize Randle, but just posting the Bball ref similarity scores isn't one of them. I mean, for reference, Lebron's sim scores have Dirk as 2nd closest, and Dolph Schayes in the top 10. Granted, Dirk is rated at 83.4 to LeBron while everyone for Randle is 87.2 or higher (bigger the number, closer the player allegedly is), meaning that Randle's comps should be much closer to him than everyone except Malone is to LeBron, but still. Very flawed stat.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

So its basically some stat that is supposed to correlate wins and how well they play? Eh I agree I don't like these type of stats either. I also don't need them to show me how bad he is playing.

It's also only based on basic box score stats. Points, boards, assists, steals, blocks, etc., and has a pretty heavy bias towards rebounds

So for example, in this past year's draft, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl is 4th in win shares while Davion Mitchell is 15th. And even though it's a cumulative stat (meaning more minutes means more win shares), both Charles Bassey and Luka Garza are in the top 10, despite playing less than 100 minutes each. I'd say Garza and Bassey have both been fine, especially for late 2nds, and JRE isn't bad, but they're not top 10, and JRE especially isn't top 4 for rookies

I get the idea, but it's not well executed.

Gotcha, sounds like a stat that doesn't prove anything then haha. There's plenty of those stats like that out there.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#369 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:50 pm

K-DOT wrote:I don't agree with the "Obi should start" line of thinking

I think Randle needs to get back to playing how he was last year, starting on defense.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


I don't think anyone is pushing that angle, but Obi needs to play more which means some combination of Randle playing less and Obi playing more which should result in them sharing the court part of the time.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#370 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:53 pm

2010 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
And his use of exclamation points is unhealthy!!!!!!!!!


Fixed!!!!!!!!!


Fixed.


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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#371 » by rajajackal » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:59 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:
rajajackal wrote:hate being right about randle. wanted to trade him this offseason or let him audition one more year


The problem with Randle has nothing to his talent it’s his bball IQ!!!!!

There’s a reason why fans aren’t getting on Rj who’s been worse than Randle!!!!!!

Deep down inside we all know Rj isn’t any good!!!!!!!

It’s different with Randle because we know how good he can be when he gives effort and makes smart decisions!!!!!!!!

Randles Demise is completely self inflicted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


exactly. the thing his, he's shown solid bbiq as well. it's literally an attitude thing. happy to have a player of his caliber at his contract as long as he plays smart team ball with effort on both sides. sadly, idk if he will unless we get a player clearly better than him
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#372 » by PeteW » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:14 pm

I would start

IQ
Burks
RJ
Randle
Obi

and let Kemba, Fournier, Rose, Mitch/Noel come off the bench. You keep IQ and Obi together since they have a good chemistry going, Burks and RJ can be the defensive wing anchors as opposed to Kemba/Fournier killing our defense. Obi can be the small ball play 5, hes blocking about 2 shots per 36 minutes and he can stretch the floor better than Mitch/Noel.

Stop playing around Thibs and make a change in the lineup.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#373 » by DaGawd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:18 pm

Just a random thought but Fox to NY seems to be something media thinks could be a good look.. would a package of Mitch Obi and picks be enough to get him? I’d like to keep Obi out of the deal if possible but you gotta give to get
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#374 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:37 pm

robillionaire wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:

You guys are too funny. Noone was drafting THero 3rd, three years ago :lol:

If we would have had him he would have been an A.W.D shooting 3s and playing no defense.
It took an established coaching staff to develop that kid.


The real Knick draft fails were:
Frank
Knox

The "not draft fails, but not being elite at drafting" are:
RJ
Obi
Grimes et all.

Because GREAT teams make the move to trade back or get the very best player.
Knicks went from sucking, completely, at drafting, to being average.
But, because the prior regime sh*t the bed so badly with Frank and Knox, the next ones needed to completely knock it out of the park with the drafts that produced RJ, Obi, Grimes. Those drafts are solid, but unspectacular. Which is unfortunate, since Knicks needed to draft at an elite level to make up for those two complete and utter busts.
Got to start somewhere. I guess "drafting ok" is an ok place to start.


I don’t think you can really include Grimes in there since he was selected in the late 1st, where the others were top 10 picks. Out of 4 top 10 picks in 2017 2018 2019 and 2020 you hope to get at least 1 all star out of the deal or at least nba caliber players. We got 2 outrights busts, a struggling regressing project with limited athleticism, and a 23 y/o old spark role player, none of which even made an all rookie team. Toppin’s probably been the best of the bunch at this point despite his career high is 14 points but I still feel better about that pick right now than No-J.

They did scoop up some other value with Mitch and IQ who look like NBA level players at least, maybe McBride or Jokubaitis or Sims become viable role players. Grimes doesn’t play enough to really formulate an opinion yet


I put Grimes in there because better guys went later. Again, I think RJ and Obi are solid enough as players, since every team could use a Evan Turner or Larry Nance Jr, but they aren't knock it out of the park picks. Which the Knicks needed after Frankenknox, since that was so awful.

My main point is after failing so completely on those two, that they needed to wildly win the next few drafts, which for RJ would be having some insanely prescient vibe he'd only be "ok" and trading back and getting additional draft capital and doing something like...anything. Herro and Jaxxon Hayes. Anything to make up for the prior losses. And Obi is fine and IQ are fine, but better players were available in both instances. Again, the need to knock it out of the park, which almost no one ever does, but the Knicks NEVER do.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#375 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:38 pm

DaGawd wrote:Just a random thought but Fox to NY seems to be something media thinks could be a good look.. would a package of Mitch Obi and picks be enough to get him? I’d like to keep Obi out of the deal if possible but you gotta give to get

How many inefficient players will it take for the Knicks to realize it's not smart to build around inefficient players?

Fox-RJ-Randle is dreadful in terms of scoring efficiency.

I think the Knicks would be wise to keep IQ and Obi (along with Rose, Burks and Taj for veteran help).
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#376 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:39 pm

2010 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
DaGawd wrote:“18 games in? This s**t takes time. The thing about us is we’ve stayed encouraged, we stayed positive, we’ve had highs, we’ve had lows but once it starts clicking we’re going to be a really really good team.” -Julius Randle



Let’s give these guys some time to figure it out man. Despite the early struggles still 2 games over .500


Yeah we all just need to step back and have some patience!!!!!!!!!!


Damn, fk game-to-game…you flip-flop page-to-page within post game threads.

:lol:


Page to page? It's post to post. :D
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#377 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 pm

Gravy wrote:TheGreenArrow could be a parody account that represents the wild emotional extremes and erratic nature of sports fanbases. At least thats how I like to read his posts :lol:


I've been a parody of myself for a while now.
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#378 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:43 pm

DaGawd wrote:Just a random thought but Fox to NY seems to be something media thinks could be a good look.. would a package of Mitch Obi and picks be enough to get him? I’d like to keep Obi out of the deal if possible but you gotta give to get


Sauces?

Also, I don't think it's possible to get him without IQ or Obi, but Fox would be nice WITH them.

Do they need an RJ?
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#379 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:45 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Just a random thought but Fox to NY seems to be something media thinks could be a good look.. would a package of Mitch Obi and picks be enough to get him? I’d like to keep Obi out of the deal if possible but you gotta give to get

How many inefficient players will it take for the Knicks to realize it's not smart to build around inefficient players?

Fox-RJ-Randle is dreadful in terms of scoring efficiency.

I think the Knicks would be wise to keep IQ and Obi (along with Rose, Burks and Taj for veteran help).


RJ, pick, Burks, 1st rounder, filler, for Fox.

At least there would be speed and finishing at the rim
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Re: PG: We won and I'm upset. 

Post#380 » by DaGawd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:45 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Just a random thought but Fox to NY seems to be something media thinks could be a good look.. would a package of Mitch Obi and picks be enough to get him? I’d like to keep Obi out of the deal if possible but you gotta give to get


Sauces?

Also, I don't think it's possible to get him without IQ or Obi, but Fox would be nice WITH them.

Do they need an RJ?

Just a BR article that suggested he and ch mccollum be our primary trade targets by the deadline. Not gonna lie I’d send on RJ without hesitation for him. Rj, Mitch and a first seems fair
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