PG: Team win - Frenchie w/ 41 - RJ first career game winner - Randle vs Fans

[whocares1]

Don’t let this talk about RJ distract y’all from the fact Schroder would’ve been a much better fit at PG than Kemba and y’all thought I was crazy

Low reward. Kemba was boom bust. And I'm here for the chaos.

Fournier was the real **** up.

They both were trash deals. Me and sham kept telling y’all about Kembas knees being done but y’all didn’t wanna hear it

I mean it didn’t help that Thibs ran him into the ground the first second he could.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Or because he’s just a role player. We are improving tho. We went from arguing Frank to RJ. Hopefully the next player we argue about in the future will be an actual star in the making.

Maybe but every team needs good role players too.

Sure but people don’t talk about him so much because they think he’s going to be just a role player. The hope there is that he’ll be a star. Accepting him as being a complimentary piece and striving to find a legitimate piece should be the objective and not hoping one day he’ll start dribbling like Kyrie.

I'm not saying he's this or that. Nobody really knows what he will be exactly. I'm just giving him some time and seeing where he's at by the end of the year. Then take it from there. Worst case if he's not a star i dont think it's a catastrophe though.

I do get it. There's been some disappointing stretches. There have been stretches where he has been pretty good too. A lot of young players go thru ups and downs

[Deeeez Knicks]

Or because he’s just a role player. We are improving tho. We went from arguing Frank to RJ. Hopefully the next player we argue about in the future will be an actual star in the making.

Maybe but every team needs good role players too.

A role player who shoots 33.3% from 3 with a 50.7% true shooting percentage is not a good role player.

He's bottom of the league in efficiency among volume shooters.

RJ can't afford to be this inefficient. His inefficiency is hurting the team.

He was 40% from 3 last year. If he's closer to that he can be a good player

[HEZI]

Bro it's not that deep, I randomly took the 4 teams with the best records per Conference because I wanted to look at starting line-ups just to get a general impression and I didn't think more deeply about how to identify the teams I consider "good". If you consider that lazy, then that's fine, because it was lazy. And I do not know how far these teams will advance. But that doesn't just contradict the bigger point I was making.

Every player needs help.

The difference between Lavine and RJ is that Lavine has been efficient for most of his career, and highly efficient the last couple of seasons (while also carrying a heavier offensive burden). So it's easier to attribute his lack of team success to a lack of help and/or coaching. He always made it easy for pieces to fit around him because he has been efficient for most of his career - he's just one of those players who never had help around him (until this year). And it's not like DeRozan is an ideal fit, but Lavine makes it work because he's malleable and efficient in various playtypes. By comparison, RJ is wildly inefficient, so he's much harder to plug into a team, or to have teammates fit alongside him.

RJ is better than Frank but that's quite a low bar. Frank is barely an NBA player (if at all), so being better than him is not some accomplishment.

I think the Knicks would be wise to move both Randle and RJ. Their games are different but they share a lot of similarities. Neither player is efficient, and neither is easy to build around.

I was trying to dive further into your statement about he can’t start on good teams. Now we aren’t even sure what a good team is but RJ can’t start on it though

Forget Lavine, who has carried the Bulls? Not Lavine but Derozan so has Derozan always been efficient? See how you are ignoring the rest of the NBA and focusing on like 1 or two guys as if these type of players make up the whole league. Lavine and Derozan are two different type of players too but you are so stuck on one and ignoring the other like the other guy hasn’t been their key to success.

You are seriously underrating RJs abilities, acting like he can’t get a shot off against defenders when he’s done so time and time again. Yes he needs to become more consistent but give me a break let’s not pretend like he hasn’t given opponents the business.

And another thing you keep ignoring is the fact that the team lacks cohesiveness, something very crucial to the success of a team. They showed more of it last season than this year and it’s why guys numbers were better. This year there’s been more dysfunction on and off the floor. RJ has still found ways to show serious glimpses of potential despite all that and yes he’s done so in numerous ways

I picked these 8 teams because it's likely that most of them are "good". The entire season hasn't unfolded yet, so a couple of them might regress to the mean or get exposed later - that's why I explicitly said it was an arbitrary selection. Surely you can grasp that. You harping on the fact that it's not 100% accurate is just a red herring at this point.

Let's use last year's teams then, since the smoke has cleared. There were 9 teams last year that I personally consider "good": Bucks, Hawks, Nets, Sixers, Suns, Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets, Mavericks.

If these teams were healthy, how many would've started this year's version of RJ?

Bucks: Middleton, DiVincenzo/Connaughton (possible)
Nets: Harden, Harris (no chance)
Hawks: Hunter, Bogdanovic (unlikely)
Sixers: Green, Harris (possible)

Suns: Booker, Bridges (no chance)
Jazz: Mitchell, Bogdanovic (no chance)
Clippers: George, Leonard, Morris (no chance)
Nuggets: Rivers, Porter (probable, in Jamal Murray's absence)
Mavericks: Hardaway, Finney-Smith (possible but unlikely)

So this year's version of RJ would've started for the Nuggets. And he would've fought for a starting spot on three other teams that had more reliable 3-point shooters at his position (Danny Green, Finney-Smith, Connaughton who are all significantly more efficient scorers than RJ). I guess if DiVincenzo was a starter for Milwaukee, then RJ could be too.

But that's RJ's company right now. Finney-Smith, Green, DiVincenzo, Jordan Poole, Dillon Brooks etc. And these guys are all practically the worst starters (or second-worst) on their teams.

Could RJ improve over time and surpass those guys? Sure.

Also just because DeRozan's arrival has coincided with the Bulls success doesn't mean he's singlehandedly leading the Bulls. They're doing it by committee, with Lavine, DeRozan, and their supporting cast. DeRozan has been efficient, but not overwhelmingly so either. His efficiency numbers are consistent with his last couple of years. It's Lavine who has been insanely efficient this year, same as last. They both have been key to Chicago's success. Where did I deny that? Show me.

I never said talent didn't matter. But when you're as wildly inefficient as RJ has been, you can't just attribute it to roster construction and the roster around him. No. That means his game is inefficient. And it's on him to improve that.

Will he? We'll see. The book isn't closed on him.

You put RJ on any of those teams and his production increases due to the talent level and style of play those other teams have so your argument doesn't hold much weight here. I'm sure people said the same thing about Andrew Wiggins before he joined the Warriors. I mean seriously man, you are talking about guys like Dorian Finney Smith and Donte DiVincenzo? My goodness, put those guys on the Knicks and ask them to play a bigger role on this poorly constructed team and see what crap you get from them. People were acting like Bobby Portis was so trash and he goes to Milwaukee and plays a huge role on a championship team and he's been killing it this season for them too. RJ easily has more talent than most of those guys you are talking about and I will say it again, he's only 21. Take his production from last season and he's easily a starter on most of those teams. Any good team would know how to use RJ properly and they would take him from us in a heartbeat to do so.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Don’t let this talk about RJ distract y’all from the fact Schroder would’ve been a much better fit at PG than Kemba and y’all thought I was crazy

For what Schroeder was asking for a wanted no part, but he signed for a gor a good deal.

I dont think there's really a big difference between Kemba and Schroeder though. They are putting up about the same numbers, Kemba is just more of an injury risk

[Clyde_Style]

Don’t let this talk about RJ distract y’all from the fact Schroder would’ve been a much better fit at PG than Kemba and y’all thought I was crazy

Low reward. Kemba was boom bust. And I'm here for the chaos.

Fournier was the real **** up.

Knicks are benching him for all games not against the Celtics to keep up his trade value

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Bro it's not that deep, I randomly took the 4 teams with the best records per Conference because I wanted to look at starting line-ups just to get a general impression and I didn't think more deeply about how to identify the teams I consider "good". If you consider that lazy, then that's fine, because it was lazy. And I do not know how far these teams will advance. But that doesn't just contradict the bigger point I was making.

Every player needs help.

The difference between Lavine and RJ is that Lavine has been efficient for most of his career, and highly efficient the last couple of seasons (while also carrying a heavier offensive burden). So it's easier to attribute his lack of team success to a lack of help and/or coaching. He always made it easy for pieces to fit around him because he has been efficient for most of his career - he's just one of those players who never had help around him (until this year). And it's not like DeRozan is an ideal fit, but Lavine makes it work because he's malleable and efficient in various playtypes. By comparison, RJ is wildly inefficient, so he's much harder to plug into a team, or to have teammates fit alongside him.

RJ is better than Frank but that's quite a low bar. Frank is barely an NBA player (if at all), so being better than him is not some accomplishment.

I think the Knicks would be wise to move both Randle and RJ. Their games are different but they share a lot of similarities. Neither player is efficient, and neither is easy to build around.

I was trying to dive further into your statement about he can’t start on good teams. Now we aren’t even sure what a good team is but RJ can’t start on it though

Forget Lavine, who has carried the Bulls? Not Lavine but Derozan so has Derozan always been efficient? See how you are ignoring the rest of the NBA and focusing on like 1 or two guys as if these type of players make up the whole league. Lavine and Derozan are two different type of players too but you are so stuck on one and ignoring the other like the other guy hasn’t been their key to success.

You are seriously underrating RJs abilities, acting like he can’t get a shot off against defenders when he’s done so time and time again. Yes he needs to become more consistent but give me a break let’s not pretend like he hasn’t given opponents the business.

And another thing you keep ignoring is the fact that the team lacks cohesiveness, something very crucial to the success of a team. They showed more of it last season than this year and it’s why guys numbers were better. This year there’s been more dysfunction on and off the floor. RJ has still found ways to show serious glimpses of potential despite all that and yes he’s done so in numerous ways

I picked these 8 teams because it's likely that most of them are "good". The entire season hasn't unfolded yet, so a couple of them might regress to the mean or get exposed later - that's why I explicitly said it was an arbitrary selection. Surely you can grasp that. You harping on the fact that it's not 100% accurate is just a red herring at this point.

Let's use last year's teams then, since the smoke has cleared. There were 9 teams last year that I personally consider "good": Bucks, Hawks, Nets, Sixers, Suns, Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets, Mavericks.

If these teams were healthy, how many would've started this year's version of RJ?

Bucks: Middleton, DiVincenzo/Connaughton (possible)
Nets: Harden, Harris (no chance)
Hawks: Hunter, Bogdanovic (unlikely)
Sixers: Green, Harris (possible)

Suns: Booker, Bridges (no chance)
Jazz: Mitchell, Bogdanovic (no chance)
Clippers: George, Leonard, Morris (no chance)
Nuggets: Rivers, Porter (probable, in Jamal Murray's absence)
Mavericks: Hardaway, Finney-Smith (possible but unlikely)

So this year's version of RJ would've started for the Nuggets. And he would've fought for a starting spot on three other teams that had more reliable 3-point shooters at his position (Danny Green, Finney-Smith, Connaughton who are all significantly more efficient scorers than RJ). I guess if DiVincenzo was a starter for Milwaukee, then RJ could be too.

But that's RJ's company right now. Finney-Smith, Green, DiVincenzo, Jordan Poole, Dillon Brooks etc. And these guys are all practically the worst starters (or second-worst) on their teams.

Could RJ improve over time and surpass those guys? Sure.

Also just because DeRozan's arrival has coincided with the Bulls success doesn't mean he's singlehandedly leading the Bulls. They're doing it by committee, with Lavine, DeRozan, and their supporting cast. DeRozan has been efficient, but not overwhelmingly so either. His efficiency numbers are consistent with his last couple of years. It's Lavine who has been insanely efficient this year, same as last. They both have been key to Chicago's success. Where did I deny that? Show me.

I never said talent didn't matter. But when you're as wildly inefficient as RJ has been, you can't just attribute it to roster construction and the roster around him. No. That means his game is inefficient. And it's on him to improve that.

Will he? We'll see. The book isn't closed on him.

RJ would definitely start on the Jazz and make them even better, they're starting Royce O'neale at the 4, he's 6'4" and averages 7.4ppg. Give RJ the same exact role with all that spacing around and a lob/dump off threat in Gobert and he's much more efficient with them than he is with us. He starts on the Bulls too, they were starting Patrick Williams at the 4, then JaVonte Green.

[mpharris36]

Don’t let this talk about RJ distract y’all from the fact Schroder would’ve been a much better fit at PG than Kemba and y’all thought I was crazy

I clearly remember mpharris calling into the NBNF podcast and mentioning Schroder as a target for this team last year!

[3toheadmelo]

Low reward. Kemba was boom bust. And I'm here for the chaos.

Fournier was the real **** up.

They both were trash deals. Me and sham kept telling y’all about Kembas knees being done but y’all didn’t wanna hear it

I mean it didn’t help that Thibs ran him into the ground the first second he could.

That’s cap. We rested him on back to backs and his knees still couldn’t handle it. Anyone who watched him in the playoffs last season knew he was done.

[Capn'O]

Don’t let this talk about RJ distract y’all from the fact Schroder would’ve been a much better fit at PG than Kemba and y’all thought I was crazy

Low reward. Kemba was boom bust. And I'm here for the chaos.

Fournier was the real **** up.

They both were trash deals. Me and sham kept telling y’all about Kembas knees being done but y’all didn’t wanna hear it

I'd rather take two years of Kemba not being able to play and a higher pick vs. 4 years of Schroeder at a higher number. The low cap hit that Schroeder ended up taking... I'd take that deal over Kemba. But for what he was asking for in the summer? Absolutely not. Similarly, the deal the Bulls got DeRozan for vs. the max was an excellent signing. Sometimes a player is good at one number and bad at another.

[3toheadmelo]

Low reward. Kemba was boom bust. And I'm here for the chaos.

Fournier was the real **** up.

They both were trash deals. Me and sham kept telling y’all about Kembas knees being done but y’all didn’t wanna hear it

I'd rather take two years of Kemba not being able to play and a higher pick vs. 4 years of Schroeder at a higher number. The low cap hit that Schroeder ended up taking... I'd take that deal over Kemba. But for what he was asking for in the summer? Absolutely not. Similarly, the deal the Bulls got DeRozan for vs. the max was an excellent signing. Sometimes a player is good at one number and bad at another.

We didn’t have to give Schroder a 4 year deal though. We most likely could’ve gotten him for 2-3 years. He would’ve settled for it cause it’s the best offer he would’ve got.

I do agree sometimes a player is good at one number and bad at another. Schroder with a 4 year deal likely wouldn’t haven’t panned out as good as you would want it to be

[Chanel Bomber]

Maybe but every team needs good role players too.

A role player who shoots 33.3% from 3 with a 50.7% true shooting percentage is not a good role player.

He's bottom of the league in efficiency among volume shooters.

RJ can't afford to be this inefficient. His inefficiency is hurting the team.

He was 40% from 3 last year. If he's closer to that he can be a good player

Watch on YouTube

Spoiler:

[F N 11]

Imagine if RJ had the Keys averaging 25 PPG. People don’t realize he has had to be a team guy every year here behind vets or with vets who are not even worthy.

Marcus Morris
Julius Randle
Evan Fournier
Kemba Walker
Elfrid Payton

Only D Rose was worthy of holding anybody back and he actually wants them to do good.

You cannot tell me RJ can’t average 25 PPG if he gets the ball consistently. Man’s is a team guy and a rhythm player. 19 in first half ended game with 32. We won but he didn’t get the ball like that for the rest of the game. Randle went off which is good for the win but proves my point…

Then people want to compare him to guys that had the keys since day 1 and in actually nba offenses.

[DowNY]

Lol the back and forth is fun sometimes but some of y’all take things too serious. Nobody here have team building powers.

[Clyde_Style]

Lol the back and forth is fun sometimes but some of y’all take things too serious. Nobody here have team building powers.

You want to talk about Power?

Don’t look in the mirror because I just turned you into a six year old girl with pink scrunchies

[DowNY]

Also, half the posters bashing RJ also thought Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr were going to be good players. Goes the other way too. Half the posters defending RJ thought the same. Nobody here has a clean resume of naming “who’s next up”.

I personally like the kid. The last draft pick I liked as much based off their work ethic alone was Iman Shumpert & if not for his injuries and him being developed as a 3 & D instead of what he actually wanted, I think his career here would’ve been much better long term.
Bash the kid if you want. If he doesn’t fit your personal favorite play style & he’s inconsistent, so be it. To say he has no talent is wild though & obviously a troll job.

He’s shown enough in my eyes where I can wait til he’s 23/24 with more time to get consistent and mature into his man body and learn more tricks before coming to a full conclusion.

Most of our draft picks over the last decade or 2 haven’t shown enough in the same span, which is why none of them got a 2nd contract. And most of them didn’t have to deal with shortened seasons, empty arena and Covid. It is what it is.

[F N 11]

Oh boy, Randle fined. Knowing his weak mental, I hope this does take a dive for the worst.

[F N 11]

Is this not one of the most polarizing Knicks teams ever?

I mean wow.... Julius gave us a thumbs down and now it's like WW3 in here lol.

I still love this place. Still love the Knicks. I'm rooting for Randle and RJ to succeed big time. I still have some level of faith this can all work out. I like the Knicks' position. A nice batch of young players, plenty of draft capital and some cap flexibility within reach if they were willing to make some trades for the chance at the right free agent. Let's all take a deep breath.

He's sorry....

Strangely thats one of the most non apology apologies he could've done Not mad at it, just shocked the knicks didnt write a better one for him

It wasn’t an apology. It like my bad I used bad language and I still rock with the Melos and Robs of the world. Fuq the rest lol.

[blueNorange]

alan hahn destroyed randle on bart and hahn

called randle a one year wonder, he's having a terrible season, and the cherry on top ... some players ain't built for nyc, and randle is looking like one of them.

i love heel hahn.

[DaGawd]

Also, half the posters bashing RJ also thought Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr were going to be good players. Goes the other way too. Half the posters defending RJ thought the same. Nobody here has a clean resume of naming “who’s next up”.

I personally like the kid. The last draft pick I liked as much based off their work ethic alone was Iman Shumpert & if not for his injuries and him being developed as a 3 & D instead of what he actually wanted, I think his career here would’ve been much better long term.
Bash the kid if you want. If he doesn’t fit your personal favorite play style & he’s inconsistent, so be it. To say he has no talent is wild though & obviously a troll job.

He’s shown enough in my eyes where I can wait til he’s 23/24 with more time to get consistent and mature into his man body and learn more tricks before coming to a full conclusion.

Most of our draft picks over the last decade or 2 haven’t shown enough in the same span, which is why none of them got a 2nd contract. And most of them didn’t have to deal with shortened seasons, empty arena and Covid. It is what it is.

That last bit may have actually helped them as it did with RJ.. less pressure to perform in front of fans.. just an overall different environment than the norm