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Knicks Get Reddish per Woj

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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1841 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:03 pm

Kemba gets moved for 2 2nds, one of which is routed to OKC because they take on someone salary to make the trade happen. And because OKC gets picks from everywhere

Still doesn't solve the glut, but I think that's the move. Thibs trusts Burks too much, even though he needs to go. Also, it's the fault of the FO for signing two brittle PG's and then it makes Thibs lean on Burks, who played backup PG for the GSW in an emergency so now Thibs thinks he's a 3rd PG, lol.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1842 » by evevale » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:07 pm

Capn'O wrote:
evevale wrote:trying to change that stupid angelina jolie avatar and now it tells me every url i use is now invalid even though i'm doing the same thing i've done w/ the last 2 stupid avi's i've used ...

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i'm done


The site only allows avis from certain upload sites. I think it's in the TOS. It's annoying.

i uploaded 2 stupid avi's in the last couple of days and now it's telling me the url is invalid ... (using imgur)

but it's w/e. not wasting anymore time on it :lol:
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1843 » by cgmw » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:09 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
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This is my main problem with this trade. It's not even about Reddish. We don't have minutes to even play this guy unless we just never play Obi and Grimes. Even worse if Rose comes back.

iq
fournier
rj
burks
randle
mitch
rose
noel
obi
grimes

that's 10 ... Thibs plays like 7. It also assumes Kemba is done.

We also just could have used this pick to consolidate and move up. The Dallas 2023 pick (~20s next year assuming Luka is alive), our pick (13) and the Charlotte pick (21) could become like 8 this year.

We will get pressure to extend Cam Reddish based off like probably ~20 games vs. fake covid opponents. Then we get a year with him and have to deal with him wanting some insane extension along with RJ.

A 1st rounder this year, let's say 8 ... is cost controlled for 3+ years.


yeah, it seems there's little chance they're gonna give cam enough minutes to try to develop him properly. which makes you wonder why they bothered.


It's still all arguing around the periphery and we don't know the full thought process (ok, if any, lolz) that went into this.

I cover the pick probably conveying sooner than later might have motivated them. In part. They might also like trying out Cam in a kind of win/win that may pay big. Either way, the value of all these possibilities - in and of themselves - is about the same - 2022 pick vs some 2024 pick vs Cam etc.

Yes, I get it removes an asset that could be put into some theoretical trade. I'd assume all this was brought up and the consensus tilted towards this deal, which retained enough flexibility for the bigger picture, while yes, sacrificing some potential theoretical options.
I'm not defending the trade, just what I think prompted it.

Also, other theory:

They were thinking about the trade for a bit, as Cam was known to be on the block, and Dolan pressed them to get the trade done so it removed the Randle vs Fans drama from the press.

Sure as sh*t quieted all that down. To include on here.

Oh. And it's BS Thibs plays 7. Come on.

His rotations have been something like - and PG is hard, because Kemba and Rose have (SHOCKINGLY!) missed so much time:

Kemba/Burks/Rose (pick 2)
Fourskinier/IQ
RJ/Burks (Grimes here when Burks is PG)
Randle/Super small serving of Obi
Mitch/Taj or Sims or Noel

It's 10. Or 9, with a dash of Obi.

Oh we absolutely know the thinking—Post-Lebron snub, post-Durant snub Knicks:

A) Stockpile young players—one of them could pan out, but mostly they’re trade fodder and cheap contracts for the perpetual max cat Starphuck quest;

B) Stockpile veteran journeyman—8 seed or bust, we must play older guys to ensure we are competitive not for a championship but to sell tickets to one playoff series while staying out of LOLKnick tabloid hell.

C) Big risky contracts to up-and-coming veterans as marquee headliners — THJ, Randle (could Cam be next?).

A + B + C = No superstars will be drafted or developed here.

It’s putting all your eggs in a trade basket, then hoping a FA will follow.

Reddish won’t develop here, neither will Mitch, Grimes, McBride, IQ, or Obi. They all have to avoid getting traded and avoid losing spots to veterans. Odds are against all of them.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1844 » by rajajackal » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:12 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Kemba gets moved for 2 2nds, one of which is routed to OKC because they take on someone salary to make the trade happen. And because OKC gets picks from everywhere

Still doesn't solve the glut, but I think that's the move. Thibs trusts Burks too much, even though he needs to go. Also, it's the fault of the FO for signing two brittle PG's and then it makes Thibs lean on Burks, who played backup PG for the GSW in an emergency so now Thibs thinks he's a 3rd PG, lol.


burks was drafted by walt perrin. i think the org likes him in general, as a utility, not so much thibs preferring him as a PG. think that move has more to do with needing IQ off the bench. he can be our backup 3 in the event that we have 2 serviceable point guards and fournier is traded. the rose/quickley/burks situation off the bench wasn't half bad. definitely want to trade him before next season to make room for grimes though
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1845 » by rajajackal » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:12 pm

evevale wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
evevale wrote:trying to change that stupid angelina jolie avatar and now it tells me every url i use is now invalid even though i'm doing the same thing i've done w/ the last 2 stupid avi's i've used ...

Image

i'm done


The site only allows avis from certain upload sites. I think it's in the TOS. It's annoying.

i uploaded 2 stupid avi's in the last couple of days and now it's telling me the url is invalid ... (using imgur)

but it's w/e. not wasting anymore time on it :lol:


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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1846 » by nedleeds » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:13 pm

evevale wrote:trying to change that stupid angelina jolie avatar and now it tells me every url i use is now invalid even though i'm doing the same thing i've done w/ the last 2 stupid avi's i've used ...

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i'm done

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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1847 » by nedleeds » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:15 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Kemba gets moved for 2 2nds, one of which is routed to OKC because they take on someone salary to make the trade happen. And because OKC gets picks from everywhere

Still doesn't solve the glut, but I think that's the move. Thibs trusts Burks too much, even though he needs to go. Also, it's the fault of the FO for signing two brittle PG's and then it makes Thibs lean on Burks, who played backup PG for the GSW in an emergency so now Thibs thinks he's a 3rd PG, lol.


We have enough extra seconds to dump Kemba's deal this year but I'd almost rather just get to the new league year and waive him with no stretch. We've actually hit on some 2nd rounders, though I guess as long as the balding flesh husk orc lord is running the team they'll likely never play.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1848 » by evevale » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:16 pm

i'm just going to wait until cam gets healthy and track my feeds to see if any other moves are made. there are just too many unknowns about the situation in its entirety for me to get too invested in favor of one way or another

but once again, what do i know - i'm just a faceless puppet dancing to the tune of a lunatic franchise

can someone help me with my avatar please :-?
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1849 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:18 pm

nedleeds wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Kemba gets moved for 2 2nds, one of which is routed to OKC because they take on someone salary to make the trade happen. And because OKC gets picks from everywhere

Still doesn't solve the glut, but I think that's the move. Thibs trusts Burks too much, even though he needs to go. Also, it's the fault of the FO for signing two brittle PG's and then it makes Thibs lean on Burks, who played backup PG for the GSW in an emergency so now Thibs thinks he's a 3rd PG, lol.


We have enough extra seconds to dump Kemba's deal this year but I'd almost rather just get to the new league year and waive him with no stretch. We've actually hit on some 2nd rounders, though I guess as long as the balding flesh husk orc lord is running the team they'll likely never play.


I was thinking Kemba is traded FOR two 2nds, and one is routed to OKC where they absorb some guy who makes 9 million.

I'm not sold on the idea. Or, maybe the Knicks get a "worse" value 2nd rounder and route one the better one to OKC.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1850 » by Richard4444 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:22 pm

nedleeds wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Holes in theory: Knicks could have traded 2022 pick for some 2023 pick right now. At the deadline. In the offseason. During the draft.


Image

This is my main problem with this trade. It's not even about Reddish. We don't have minutes to even play this guy unless we just never play Obi and Grimes. Even worse if Rose comes back.

iq
fournier
rj
burks
randle
mitch
rose
noel
obi
grimes

that's 10 ... Thibs plays like 7. It also assumes Kemba is done.

We also just could have used this pick to consolidate and move up. The Dallas 2023 pick (~20s next year assuming Luka is alive), our pick (13) and the Charlotte pick (21) could become like 8 this year.

We will get pressure to extend Cam Reddish based off like probably ~20 games vs. fake covid opponents. Then we get a year with him and have to deal with him wanting some insane extension along with RJ.

A 1st rounder this year, let's say 8 ... is cost controlled for 3+ years.


I agree that it's tough to find minutes for everyone assuming we don't make another move and the roster is healthy.

But I disagree that we have to extend Cam next offseason. We can keep him and wait until 2023 to re-sign him matching an offer sheet if it's the case.

Also, I disagree about the need for low-picks rookies. We hit getting IQ and Grimes. But it's tough to hit every time. We already have a crowded roster and the coaching staff does not use to like rookies very much unless they impress from day 1. Each season will be tougher for a rookie to get playing time in the Knicks unless there is a big trade for a star.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1851 » by nedleeds » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:24 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Kemba gets moved for 2 2nds, one of which is routed to OKC because they take on someone salary to make the trade happen. And because OKC gets picks from everywhere

Still doesn't solve the glut, but I think that's the move. Thibs trusts Burks too much, even though he needs to go. Also, it's the fault of the FO for signing two brittle PG's and then it makes Thibs lean on Burks, who played backup PG for the GSW in an emergency so now Thibs thinks he's a 3rd PG, lol.


We have enough extra seconds to dump Kemba's deal this year but I'd almost rather just get to the new league year and waive him with no stretch. We've actually hit on some 2nd rounders, though I guess as long as the balding flesh husk orc lord is running the team they'll likely never play.


I was thinking Kemba is traded FOR two 2nds


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He has another year. This clown front office was the only crew dumb enough to offer a man with less cartilage than a tsetse fly a second year. Otherwise yeah maybe a token 2nd rounder to the Lakers or some team thinking he can play.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1852 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:26 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Gobert is much more valuable than Mitchell to the Jazz. He's been more critical to their regular season success.

I know Mitchell had that sensational series against Denver.

But when Gobert gets exposed in the playoffs, that's when Utah get exposed as a team. And there's little Mitchell can do about it.

I think he (Mitchell) isn't worth Utah's probable asking price, even if he's a good player.


yeah, i don't think people understand the impact of gobert. when he got injured for awhile a couple years ago they played under .500. now out with covid and -

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He still sucks in the playoffs though.
Clippers went small against Gobert and he had no answer for them.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1853 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:30 pm

Fournier is the guy Cam should just replace But who knows if that happens.

If Cam pans out he will play. Our roster is “crowded”, but most of them suck half the time anyway. And so does Cam so far, but we do need a big wing.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1854 » by Richard4444 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:31 pm

cgmw wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
yeah, it seems there's little chance they're gonna give cam enough minutes to try to develop him properly. which makes you wonder why they bothered.


It's still all arguing around the periphery and we don't know the full thought process (ok, if any, lolz) that went into this.

I cover the pick probably conveying sooner than later might have motivated them. In part. They might also like trying out Cam in a kind of win/win that may pay big. Either way, the value of all these possibilities - in and of themselves - is about the same - 2022 pick vs some 2024 pick vs Cam etc.

Yes, I get it removes an asset that could be put into some theoretical trade. I'd assume all this was brought up and the consensus tilted towards this deal, which retained enough flexibility for the bigger picture, while yes, sacrificing some potential theoretical options.
I'm not defending the trade, just what I think prompted it.

Also, other theory:

They were thinking about the trade for a bit, as Cam was known to be on the block, and Dolan pressed them to get the trade done so it removed the Randle vs Fans drama from the press.

Sure as sh*t quieted all that down. To include on here.

Oh. And it's BS Thibs plays 7. Come on.

His rotations have been something like - and PG is hard, because Kemba and Rose have (SHOCKINGLY!) missed so much time:

Kemba/Burks/Rose (pick 2)
Fourskinier/IQ
RJ/Burks (Grimes here when Burks is PG)
Randle/Super small serving of Obi
Mitch/Taj or Sims or Noel

It's 10. Or 9, with a dash of Obi.

Oh we absolutely know the thinking—Post-Lebron snub, post-Durant snub Knicks:

A) Stockpile young players—one of them could pan out, but mostly they’re trade fodder and cheap contracts for the perpetual max cat Starphuck quest;

B) Stockpile veteran journeyman—8 seed or bust, we must play older guys to ensure we are competitive not for a championship but to sell tickets to one playoff series while staying out of LOLKnick tabloid hell.

C) Big risky contracts to up-and-coming veterans as marquee headliners — THJ, Randle (could Cam be next?).

A + B + C = No superstars will be drafted or developed here.

It’s putting all your eggs in a trade basket, then hoping a FA will follow.

Reddish won’t develop here, neither will Mitch, Grimes, McBride, IQ, or Obi. They all have to avoid getting traded and avoid losing spots to veterans. Odds are against all of them.


I disagree. If we are not tanking, these are the right moves. Stockpiling youth, getting a few vets to remain competitive and hoping for a star to come. The problems are: our youth usually suck, there are no stars available especially when we are competitive.

Besides, I do not think Randle was a big of risk contract considering his age. We have to wait to see if he can come back in his last season shape and I am not entirely pessimistic about his trade value.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1855 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:32 pm

cgmw wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
yeah, it seems there's little chance they're gonna give cam enough minutes to try to develop him properly. which makes you wonder why they bothered.


It's still all arguing around the periphery and we don't know the full thought process (ok, if any, lolz) that went into this.

I cover the pick probably conveying sooner than later might have motivated them. In part. They might also like trying out Cam in a kind of win/win that may pay big. Either way, the value of all these possibilities - in and of themselves - is about the same - 2022 pick vs some 2024 pick vs Cam etc.

Yes, I get it removes an asset that could be put into some theoretical trade. I'd assume all this was brought up and the consensus tilted towards this deal, which retained enough flexibility for the bigger picture, while yes, sacrificing some potential theoretical options.
I'm not defending the trade, just what I think prompted it.

Also, other theory:

They were thinking about the trade for a bit, as Cam was known to be on the block, and Dolan pressed them to get the trade done so it removed the Randle vs Fans drama from the press.

Sure as sh*t quieted all that down. To include on here.

Oh. And it's BS Thibs plays 7. Come on.

His rotations have been something like - and PG is hard, because Kemba and Rose have (SHOCKINGLY!) missed so much time:

Kemba/Burks/Rose (pick 2)
Fourskinier/IQ
RJ/Burks (Grimes here when Burks is PG)
Randle/Super small serving of Obi
Mitch/Taj or Sims or Noel

It's 10. Or 9, with a dash of Obi.

Oh we absolutely know the thinking—Post-Lebron snub, post-Durant snub Knicks:

A) Stockpile young players—one of them could pan out, but mostly they’re trade fodder and cheap contracts for the perpetual max cat Starphuck quest;

B) Stockpile veteran journeyman—8 seed or bust, we must play older guys to ensure we are competitive not for a championship but to sell tickets to one playoff series while staying out of LOLKnick tabloid hell.

C) Big risky contracts to up-and-coming veterans as marquee headliners — THJ, Randle (could Cam be next?).

A + B + C = No superstars will be drafted or developed here.

It’s putting all your eggs in a trade basket, then hoping a FA will follow.

Reddish won’t develop here, neither will Mitch, Grimes, McBride, IQ, or Obi. They all have to avoid getting traded and avoid losing spots to veterans. Odds are against all of them.


IQ has developed here. So has RJ.
Sims and Grimes have received actual useful minutes.
Obi's development has sucked and they need to do better, but I'd bet part of it is Obi just isn't that good.

I know you hate Dolan etc etc, and I don't really trust anything that happens, and I'm pretty well aware Leon & WWW were brought in to "close the deal" that Mills couldn't with his "league contacts", so it probably won't end well.

But trying to stockpile assets while trying to win some games and show general improvement while at least developing SOME of them is what most teams, to include the good ones, try to do.

So far, there isn't much going on here that isn't what good organizations try to do - in GENERAL.

What has kind of sucked is execution, lol.
Obi over Haliburton - fail
Running back ALL of Rose/Burks/Noel/Taj - fail.
Thinking Fournier and Kemba are good? fail.

But they've retained or gained picks or assets, drafted "ok", got the youth some time, have given a f*ck ton of minutes to RJ, some to IQ, at least have given opportunity to Sims and Grimes, and have mishandled Obi, who probably kind of sucks anyway, see above.

This collection of FO people, other than Leon & WWW probably selling Dolan a future fiction that gets them paid for 3 years, is solid if unspectacular. It's about in the range of that old pus face guy in the wheelchair the NBA made GM the team for bit. What was his name? Oh, Walsh. Actually better, since Knicks haven't traded all the assets. Yet.

I'm sure they will and you can be vindicated. I'll just wait until they do it.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1856 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:33 pm

nedleeds wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
We have enough extra seconds to dump Kemba's deal this year but I'd almost rather just get to the new league year and waive him with no stretch. We've actually hit on some 2nd rounders, though I guess as long as the balding flesh husk orc lord is running the team they'll likely never play.


I was thinking Kemba is traded FOR two 2nds


Image

He has another year. This clown front office was the only crew dumb enough to offer a man with less cartilage than a tsetse fly a second year. Otherwise yeah maybe a token 2nd rounder to the Lakers or some team thinking he can play.


Well, yeah, it would be a playoff team, so the 2nd rounders would be the pretty sh*tty kind, like in the 50s.
And it might be just one, and then routed to OKC
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1857 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:35 pm

evevale wrote:i'm just going to wait until cam gets healthy and track my feeds to see if any other moves are made. there are just too many unknowns about the situation in its entirety for me to get too invested in favor of one way or another

but once again, what do i know - i'm just a faceless puppet dancing to the tune of a lunatic franchise

can someone help me with my avatar please :-?


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Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1858 » by DowNY » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:38 pm

nedleeds wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Holes in theory: Knicks could have traded 2022 pick for some 2023 pick right now. At the deadline. In the offseason. During the draft.


Image

This is my main problem with this trade. It's not even about Reddish. We don't have minutes to even play this guy unless we just never play Obi and Grimes. Even worse if Rose comes back.

iq
fournier
rj
burks
randle
mitch
rose
noel
obi
grimes

that's 10 ... Thibs plays like 7. It also assumes Kemba is done.

We also just could have used this pick to consolidate and move up. The Dallas 2023 pick (~20s next year assuming Luka is alive), our pick (13) and the Charlotte pick (21) could become like 8 this year.

We will get pressure to extend Cam Reddish based off like probably ~20 games vs. fake covid opponents. Then we get a year with him and have to deal with him wanting some insane extension along with RJ.

A 1st rounder this year, let's say 8 ... is cost controlled for 3+ years.

We had multiple picks the past 2 drafts and “wanted to trade up” & failed.
The Obi draft we had 2 1sts and almost sacrificed drafting Quickley to move up to solidify Obi.
This past draft we wanted to move up for Chris Duarte or homie on the Pelicans and failed.

Just cause it’s what you want to do as a fan doesn’t mean it’ll happen or is possible in real life for this organization. Also, I’m not trading 3 picks to move up to like 8 in this weak draft where Cam Reddish would automatically be a top 5 pick in this draft.

Third, we don’t make this trade where he’s due an extension in a year and half to not play him. He’s gonna play. Thibs said just yesterday he would like to go 8, 9 deep at most. Kemba was playing due to the Covid surge that hit the team. Doubt he’s coming back.
So just because you don’t see the vision now, doesn’t mean it’s not a long term plan in place. Can’t just assume. So many here last year were assuming when we got D Rose last year for a player who wasn’t in the rotation either. “Quickley won’t be playing anymore”. Like let the plan blossom instead of thinking it’s a blind risk.
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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1859 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:39 pm

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Re: Knicks Get Reddish per Woj 

Post#1860 » by Richard4444 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:40 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Kemba gets moved for 2 2nds, one of which is routed to OKC because they take on someone salary to make the trade happen. And because OKC gets picks from everywhere

Still doesn't solve the glut, but I think that's the move. Thibs trusts Burks too much, even though he needs to go. Also, it's the fault of the FO for signing two brittle PG's and then it makes Thibs lean on Burks, who played backup PG for the GSW in an emergency so now Thibs thinks he's a 3rd PG, lol.


We have enough extra seconds to dump Kemba's deal this year but I'd almost rather just get to the new league year and waive him with no stretch. We've actually hit on some 2nd rounders, though I guess as long as the balding flesh husk orc lord is running the team they'll likely never play.


I was thinking Kemba is traded FOR two 2nds, and one is routed to OKC where they absorb some guy who makes 9 million.

I'm not sold on the idea. Or, maybe the Knicks get a "worse" value 2nd rounder and route one the better one to OKC.


The Front Office must be crazy to use picks to dump Kemba. Assuming we are not using cap space this offseason, there is no need to dump Kemba. If we can not get an expiring contract, keep him to use as a filler in a future trade.
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