Leon Rose is in a no win situation

[damedash09]

Unless Leon Rose somehow gets a top number 1 option player [ the true elites in the league] in here which isn't likely to happen many will view his time here as a failure

He makes a move for mitchell- he's not good enough and doesn't get the team out of round 1

Jalen brunson- many will complain he overpaid for him if a sign and trade ever happens and while Brunson is. Solid player he isn't going to take a team to the top

If you get the vets out of here and the young guys play winning 25 games rose will get crushed

If the team gets back to the playoffs and doesn't get of round 1 people will be mad, they somehow get to round 2 it's a failure, they miss the playoffs people will be mad. Unless Leon Rose gets extreme luck their is just no way this team is a contender any time soon

[Luv those Knicks]

Yup. That's where I come down. That's why I made my "coast" thread. I think it's too early to blow the team up. Randle is too hard to trade and it's too soon to punt the RJ/Obi tandum, so 2022-2023 is about riding the bad situation, hope they draft well and see what next year looks like with 2 first round picks going in.

[DOT]

Let me fix that title for you:

"Leon Rose put himself in a no win situation"

[Chanel Bomber]

Edit: Wrong thread.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

He has nobody to blame but himself, how different would things be right now had he moved Randle before the start of the 2020 season or at the deadline? Just getting off Randle at that time and ending up with any of the top 8 picks it the 2021 draft would have been far more beneficial than making the playoffs.

[KnixtapeH20]

No he's not. He's literally in a perfect situation... He has the approval of the fans to trade Randle/vets and run it back with the youth.

City would would get behind this team like never before...

[Chanel Bomber]

He has nobody to blame but himself, how different would things be right now had he moved Randle before the start of the 2020 season or at the deadline? Just getting off Randle at that time and ending up with any of the top 8 picks it the 2021 draft would have been far more beneficial than making the playoffs.

The Knicks with Leon and Perry would have picked Suggs, guaraneffingteed. He fits Perry's archetype to a tee. You're not going anywhere so long as incompetent people have a voice within your organization.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

He has nobody to blame but himself, how different would things be right now had he moved Randle before the start of the 2020 season or at the deadline? Just getting off Randle at that time and ending up with any of the top 8 picks it the 2021 draft would have been far more beneficial than making the playoffs.

The Knicks with Leon and Perry would have picked Suggs, guaraneffingteed. He's Perry's type. You're not going anywhere so long as incompetent people have a voice within your organization.

Maybe, but even with how Suggs played he's still a better asset than Randle, we have a negative asset as the foundation of our team.

[Iron Mantis]

Unless Leon Rose somehow gets a top number 1 option player [ the true elites in the league] in here which isn't likely to happen many will view his time here as a failure

He makes a move for mitchell- he's not good enough and doesn't get the team out of round 1

Jalen brunson- many will complain he overpaid for him if a sign and trade ever happens and while Brunson is. Solid player he isn't going to take a team to the top

If you get the vets out of here and the young guys play winning 25 games rose will get crushed

If the team gets back to the playoffs and doesn't get of round 1 people will be mad, they somehow get to round 2 it's a failure, they miss the playoffs people will be mad. Unless Leon Rose gets extreme luck their is just no way this team is a contender any time soon

Rose will absolutely not get crushed if RJ, Obi, and Quick lead the Knicks to 25 wins while selling the fans on the hope of the youth...

Why not? How did the fans feel about having the worst record in the NBA in hopes of drafting Zion? We suffered through a mish-mash of young players leading the way, with bad coaching...all on the basis of hope..

25 wins is good for a top 5 pick to add to the young core...could end up drafting your cornerstone superstar. The difference is now our young core is more intriguing than anything on that old Knicks roster and the coach is better.

[KnixtapeH20]

Unless Leon Rose somehow gets a top number 1 option player [ the true elites in the league] in here which isn't likely to happen many will view his time here as a failure

He makes a move for mitchell- he's not good enough and doesn't get the team out of round 1

Jalen brunson- many will complain he overpaid for him if a sign and trade ever happens and while Brunson is. Solid player he isn't going to take a team to the top

If you get the vets out of here and the young guys play winning 25 games rose will get crushed

If the team gets back to the playoffs and doesn't get of round 1 people will be mad, they somehow get to round 2 it's a failure, they miss the playoffs people will be mad. Unless Leon Rose gets extreme luck their is just no way this team is a contender any time soon

Rose will absolutely not get crushed if RJ, Obi, and Quick lead the Knicks to 25 wins while selling the fans on the hope of the youth...

Why not? How did the fans feel about having the worst record in the NBA in hopes of drafting Zion? We suffered through a mish-mash of young players leading the way, with bad coaching...all on the basis of hope..

25 wins is good for a top 5 pick to add to the young core...could end up drafting your cornerstone superstar. The difference is now our young core is more intriguing than anything on that old Knicks roster and the coach is better.

Facts plus we'll win more than 25 games off the strength of RJ, Obi, Grimes and IQ alone... Maybe not if Mitch isn't back idk

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Unless Leon Rose somehow gets a top number 1 option player [ the true elites in the league] in here which isn't likely to happen many will view his time here as a failure

He makes a move for mitchell- he's not good enough and doesn't get the team out of round 1

Jalen brunson- many will complain he overpaid for him if a sign and trade ever happens and while Brunson is. Solid player he isn't going to take a team to the top

If you get the vets out of here and the young guys play winning 25 games rose will get crushed

If the team gets back to the playoffs and doesn't get of round 1 people will be mad, they somehow get to round 2 it's a failure, they miss the playoffs people will be mad. Unless Leon Rose gets extreme luck their is just no way this team is a contender any time soon

Rose will absolutely not get crushed if RJ, Obi, and Quick lead the Knicks to 25 wins while selling the fans on the hope of the youth...

Why not? How did the fans feel about having the worst record in the NBA in hopes of drafting Zion? We suffered through a mish-mash of young players leading the way, with bad coaching...all on the basis of hope..

25 wins is good for a top 5 pick to add to the young core...could end up drafting your cornerstone superstar. The difference is now our young core is more intriguing than anything on that old Knicks roster and the coach is better.

True, but 25 wins probably wont cut it for a top 5 pick next year, the tanking for Wembanyama will be professional grade A tanking.

[TheGreenArrow]

All he has to do is trade Julius and he’ll be able to do no wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he keeps Julius then he’s definitely in a no win situation and him and the rest of the fo will be fired at the end of the 2022-23 season l!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chanel Bomber]

He has nobody to blame but himself, how different would things be right now had he moved Randle before the start of the 2020 season or at the deadline? Just getting off Randle at that time and ending up with any of the top 8 picks it the 2021 draft would have been far more beneficial than making the playoffs.

The Knicks with Leon and Perry would have picked Suggs, guaraneffingteed. He's Perry's type. You're not going anywhere so long as incompetent people have a voice within your organization.

Maybe, but even with how Suggs played he's still a better asset than Randle, we have a negative asset as the foundation of our team.

As an asset, probably. Still not a piece that leads you anywhere.

I wanted Randle traded before the 2020-21 season, and after it, after looking closely at the numbers. So I agree that moving Randle would have been the right move.

I just don't think the reward for trading Randle, had it been Suggs, would've moved the needle for this franchise.

This franchise had four top 10 picks in a row and they selected Frank, Knox, RJ and Obi. None of these players has proven to be merely a good NBA player.

The Knicks problems start at the top, obviously, and then with their talent evaluation, from draft to pro-scouting. It's the same people who signed Randle and Fournier.

[Luv those Knicks]

It's not just who's running the team. Dolan wants to win every year. He's incredibly short sighted and playoff hungry.

And, not to defend Leon, but nearly everybody was praising him a year ago when he landed Walker & Fournier and signed Randle for less than his past season's numbers suggested he was worth. Even I thought he had a nice off-season. I had mixed feelings because it wasn't enough to really win more than maybe a first round and Walker was at the tail end of his career so I had a "why did they bother" attitude, but I thought he'd put together a solid team for 2021-22. A lot of people did.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It's not just who's running the team. Dolan wants to win every year. He's incredibly short sighted and playoff hungry.

And, not to defend Leon, but nearly everybody was praising him a year ago when he landed Walker & Fournier and signed Randle for less than his past season's numbers suggested he was worth. Even I thought he had a nice off-season. I had mixed feelings because it wasn't enough to really win more than maybe a first round and Walker was at the tail end of his career so I had a "why did they bother" attitude, but I thought he'd put together a solid team for 2021-22. A lot of people did.

I hated all of those moves and was vocal about it at the time.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The Knicks with Leon and Perry would have picked Suggs, guaraneffingteed. He's Perry's type. You're not going anywhere so long as incompetent people have a voice within your organization.

Maybe, but even with how Suggs played he's still a better asset than Randle, we have a negative asset as the foundation of our team.

As an asset, probably. Still not a piece that leads you anywhere.

I wanted Randle traded before the 2020-21 season, and after it, after looking closely at the numbers. So I agree that moving Randle would have been the right move.

I just don't think the reward for trading Randle, had it been Suggs, would've moved the needle for this franchise.

This franchise had four top 10 picks in a row and they selected Frank, Knox, RJ and Obi. None of these players has proven to be merely a good NBA player.

The Knicks problems start at the top, obviously, and then with their talent evaluation, from draft to pro-scouting. It's the same people who signed Randle and Fournier.

Suggs as an asset is still better than Randle, and he leads you to a better lottery pick right now which is exactly what we need.


We disagree on Obi and RJ, because Obi's advanced stats say he's good and should get more minutes, and RJ for all your critiques still has a high profile around the league because wings are still extremely hard to come by.

[Chanel Bomber]

Maybe, but even with how Suggs played he's still a better asset than Randle, we have a negative asset as the foundation of our team.

As an asset, probably. Still not a piece that leads you anywhere.

I wanted Randle traded before the 2020-21 season, and after it, after looking closely at the numbers. So I agree that moving Randle would have been the right move.

I just don't think the reward for trading Randle, had it been Suggs, would've moved the needle for this franchise.

This franchise had four top 10 picks in a row and they selected Frank, Knox, RJ and Obi. None of these players has proven to be merely a good NBA player.

The Knicks problems start at the top, obviously, and then with their talent evaluation, from draft to pro-scouting. It's the same people who signed Randle and Fournier.

Suggs as an asset is still better than Randle, and he leads you to a better lottery pick right now which is exactly what we need.


We disagree on Obi and RJ, because Obi's advanced stats say he's good and should get more minutes, and RJ for all your critiques still has a high profile around the league because wings are still extremely hard to come by.

He leads you to a better lottery pick because he sucks. There's value in that, but he as a player doesn't get you any closer to a proper rebuild. Perry's draft record is horrifying. Leon's so far is questionable. So I have 0 confidence the Knicks would make the right pick, unless a generational prospect like Wembayama fell into their laps.

I don't know if we disagree on Obi. I don't hold a firm opinion about Obi. I'm agnostic about him more than anything, because I don't think the sample size is large enough for me to express any strong judgement.

Good wings are hard to come by, you're right, but RJ doesn't fit that profile 3 years in, and is being surpassed by a number of his peers (Bane, Edwards, Scottie Barnes, Cade, Haliburton, Maxey, Herro, Poole off the top of my head).

RJ's stock has been falling since high-school. From #1 high-school prospect to #3 pick, from #3 pick to not making either All-Rookie team (and rightfully so, which is what matters), from a promising young talent to the second most inefficient volume scorer in the entire NBA. It's not looking good.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

As an asset, probably. Still not a piece that leads you anywhere.

I wanted Randle traded before the 2020-21 season, and after it, after looking closely at the numbers. So I agree that moving Randle would have been the right move.

I just don't think the reward for trading Randle, had it been Suggs, would've moved the needle for this franchise.

This franchise had four top 10 picks in a row and they selected Frank, Knox, RJ and Obi. None of these players has proven to be merely a good NBA player.

The Knicks problems start at the top, obviously, and then with their talent evaluation, from draft to pro-scouting. It's the same people who signed Randle and Fournier.

Suggs as an asset is still better than Randle, and he leads you to a better lottery pick right now which is exactly what we need.


We disagree on Obi and RJ, because Obi's advanced stats say he's good and should get more minutes, and RJ for all your critiques still has a high profile around the league because wings are still extremely hard to come by.

He leads you to a better lottery pick because he sucks. There's value in that, but he as a player doesn't get you any closer to a proper rebuild. Perry's draft record is horrifying. Leon's so far is questionable. So I have 0 confidence the Knicks would make the right pick, unless a generational prospect like Wembayama fell into their laps.

I don't know if we disagree on Obi. I don't hold a firm opinion about Obi. I'm agnostic about him more than anything, because I don't think the sample size is large enough for me to express any strong judgement.

Good wings are hard to come by, you're right, but RJ doesn't fit that profile 3 years in, and is being surpassed by a number of his peers (Bane, Edwards, Scottie Barnes, Cade, Haliburton, Maxey, Herro, Poole off the top of my head).

RJ's stock has been falling since high-school. From #1 high-school prospect to #3 pick, from #3 pick to not making either All-Rookie team (and rightfully so, which is what matters), from a promising young talent to the second most inefficient volume scorer in the entire NBA. It's not looking good.

If you don't hold a firm opinion how can you say he's not a good player? Make that make sense You can't be agnostic about him if you're putting him in the same class as 3 players you don't like. Obi has good advanced stats, even with how bad his rookie season was his advanced stats were still fairly even, this year they say he's good and should be getting a lot more time than he got. All he needs is playing time, and if we get a PG he can play off of he'll be even better than he is now, which is already promising player to begin with.



No, RJ does fit that profile but you're being too stubborn about it and you will eventually die on that hill. There are very few wings under 23 years old right now that project as two way players, RJ is one of them. It's not looking good to you because you're so dogmatic about TS% that you can't even see the actual progression as a player that he made.

[KnicksGadfly]

It's not just who's running the team. Dolan wants to win every year. He's incredibly short sighted and playoff hungry.

And, not to defend Leon, but nearly everybody was praising him a year ago when he landed Walker & Fournier and signed Randle for less than his past season's numbers suggested he was worth. Even I thought he had a nice off-season. I had mixed feelings because it wasn't enough to really win more than maybe a first round and Walker was at the tail end of his career so I had a "why did they bother" attitude, but I thought he'd put together a solid team for 2021-22. A lot of people did.

I thought he did too. My biggest question is whether he’s going to double down on his mistakes: Randle, Perry, even Thibs.

He shouldn’t make dumb moves just to get rid of Randle but he’s gotta limit the damage, at the very least. Benching him for Obi at the end of last season was a great start. If Randle cannot hold himself to a high standard as the highest paid and “supposed” leader of this team, then the Knicks need to treat him like a malcontent who needs tough discipline (or at least be firmer than they are now).

[Hes_On_Fire]

It's not just who's running the team. Dolan wants to win every year. He's incredibly short sighted and playoff hungry.

And, not to defend Leon, but nearly everybody was praising him a year ago when he landed Walker & Fournier and signed Randle for less than his past season's numbers suggested he was worth. Even I thought he had a nice off-season. I had mixed feelings because it wasn't enough to really win more than maybe a first round and Walker was at the tail end of his career so I had a "why did they bother" attitude, but I thought he'd put together a solid team for 2021-22. A lot of people did.

I didn't.