Around the NBA - the sharp end of the playoffs - Randle snubbed for All NBA

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Probably reached our 100 page limit a day or so ago in the other thread, tho I was still posting there .

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Dump some of the current discussion into the thread;

Hinkie made bad moves too for sure. But the point was to take multiple swings in the high lottery hoping for that big hit and that worked. You do that knowing the draft can be a crap shoot and everyone has misses so you take more swings at it. It's hard to take one swing and hit a hr. The more swings, the better the chance.

Celtics kinda did the same hoarding picks, except mostly other teams picks and didn't intentionally tank. They hit and miss but Tatum made everything worthwhile

Danny Ainge is an elite executive, and it kind of is my point.

Ainge reached with Jaylen Brown. It was not a popular pick. Ainge took a major risk by trading down for Tatum. Ainge found great talents like Grant Williams later in the draft.

Do you think Steve Mills and Scott Perry would have made those moves? Of course not.

That right there is the difference between a great executive and incompetent ones.

Hinkie hit on one pick, because he multiplied his chances to be lucky in the draft. I do not deny that. But it wasn't enough to build a championship team, because the assets he had accumulated were still used in a way that was unsound, whether by him or his successors. Who knows how he would have managed his assets if he hadn't been banned by the NBA. You can't take for granted that he would have done a better or worse job than Colangelo and Brand.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

SGA, Giddey, Ayton, Dort, Mann is a way better core than us.. another team that will pass us smh

#4ish pick. Then if Poku pans at all...

I find what they've done distasteful but Presti is a truly elite gm imo.

I'd +1 this post, except I don't see anything distasteful in what they've done. Notably, they've been bad, but not abysmal over the past 2 years. This isn't the 4 years of an unwatchable team or whatever people think the 6ers had. This year has been fine to watch for OKC fans - you have Giddey showing up, Dort and SGA playing well when available, Poku still flickering signs of genius, even Theo Maledon is a better player than expected. This is infinitely more interesting to watch than the Knicks even if the Knicks won 50% more games.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Danny Ainge is an elite executive, and it kind of is my point.

Ainge reached with Jaylen Brown. It was not a popular pick. Ainge took a major risk by trading down for Tatum. Ainge found great talents like Grant Williams later in the draft.

Do you think Steve Mills and Scott Perry would have made those moves? Of course not.

That right there is the difference between a great executive and incompetent ones.

Hinkie hit on one pick, because he multiplied his chances to be lucky in the draft. I do not deny that. But it wasn't enough to build a championship team, because the assets he had accumulated were still used in a way that was unsound, whether by him or his successors. Who knows how he would have managed his assets if he hadn't been banned by the NBA. You can't take for granted that he would have done a better or worse job than Colangelo and Brand.

I mostly agree. There is no fool proof plan and you mostly need skilled executives to pull off any plan. Ainge is elite. Knicks have had some horrible executives with bad plans so i don't think they would have pulled off any plan.

In terms of Hinkie, who knows if he could have done better or worse. I'm just looking at what he started with and what he left with. Basically Embiid, #1 pick (Ben Simmons), bunch of solid players like Saric, RoCoc, Jerami Grant, McConnell, tton of cap space, future picks...he did that in 3 years

Kinda crazy that those 6 at almost any point between Hinkie's firing and now are better than anything the 6ers managed to put on the floor these last 6 years. (Simmons's mental stuff aside.)

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I don't expect them to tank either.

As far as Mitchell and Brunson are concerned, wouldn't necessarily mind it if they have a second big move in the works (depends on the move though). Otherwise, there's absolutely no point.

Agreed you can’t expect either of them to be your best player if you want to win a title.

What about if you had both of them, Randle and Mitch? Is that the basis for a better team than the 2020-2022 Suns?

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

After how Luka dominated Suns team, I started to believe more about just being lucky to get the generational stars than drafting 3-4 solid players in the process of tanking years. Luka might've dismantled the whole PHX Suns that is build in 5 years.
That being said, its certainly great to have picks+assets to get Booker-Ayton-Bridges from the rookie years and being able to add pieces with open cap space (CP3-Crowder). Even if PHX decides to rebuild now, they'd be more successful than the last 9 years of Knicks. After all, PHX made NBA Finals.

I also don't believe 76ers-Hinkie to be unsuccessful. 76ers FO have **** up numerous times. 14 months ago Ben Simmons was a top 10 asset in the league. They traded him+picks+rotation players for Harden's expiring. Wtf was that T.Harris move and max contract? Same **** for the Horford deal. 76ers FO constantly wasting assets but since they had so many from the Hinkie era, they're still above water. 76ers getting eliminated in 2nd round comes down to their franchise players 'greatness'? With Butler-Simmons-Embiid, they would make the NBA Finals if Embiid was best of the best. Sorry, Embiid fans but he is not on that level. Kawhi is at that level, Luka is at that level, Durant-prime Curry-Lebron-Giannis-Jokic are there. Hinkie's 76ers core could've made to NBA Finals with better moves. But then again, if your star player is not the best of the best you probably dont win a title.

I was never sold on Booker being that guy, or having the Mamba mentality. I dont think Zion can ever reach there. SGA, Barrett are good but not that caliber. I also dont believe in Ja Morant, he is enjoying elite defense of Memphis, does not impress like Luka-Kawhi, too small. I think Cade Cunnigham might be the next one. Cade showed how he can carry the offense in the 4th quarter with **** team for many games in the second half of the season. Cade can join that Lebron-Luka elite big guards group soon. OKC tanking all those years couldn't get that elite Oklahoma (OSU) product is showing how much 'luck' influence the outcome.

I like this post a lot. Imo Victor will be the actual next one. For me Cade will be a level below elite. I'm also still a big Mobley believer to at least reach level below elite.

Anyway, def should post more. But shorter and more often. And with illustrations. So Evie will read them too.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Darn, Lakers sure are crazy...they are serious about contending with westbrook???

*triple facepalm*

Tell me about it. cgmw thinks the Knicks have ownership problems.

I watched nba basketball starting from the very early 90s and I have witnessed the greatness of Phil Jackson's teams so I have utmost respect for him but this is just laughable and we all know its Phil (who really likes westy) who is maneuvering these set of decisions for the lakers

qft

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

a few thoughts

1. jimmy butler is a winning player, he changes your identity
2. erik spoelstra is the best nba coach in my existence.
3. luka doncic is carrying a bum ass mavs team
4. i think the celtics are winning it all, i love al hoford ... him getting a ring would make him a hof'er.

.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Hated that we let Theo go

Read on Twitter

.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Read on Twitter

.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Chanel - Hinkie's whole point was that the draft is luck and you have to maximize your shots to be successful with it. One shot at it doesn't do it. He planned for failure in that regard. He would have benefited from being a better scout himself but the asset management plan was sound.

I know, and I agree.

In terms of asset management, the strategy was sound. I was never against it. You can definitely make the case that the Knicks should have tanked for multiple seasons in the late 2010s.

But I disagree with a few points, including the idea that the outcome validates the Process (i.e. that the outcome was a success), or the assumption that Hinkie would've done any better than his successors with his war chest.

It gets an "incomplete."

Tanking is easy. The harder part is finding a sucker for some of the trades he pulled off (Kings and Lakers ripoffs) but imo the success lies in putting together a framework that even mediocre managers can maintain a good to great team with. I mean, they were basically there with Butler.

.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

eve: hmm .. maybe i should stop trolling and see what chan has to say about the process ...

chanel:



eve:

.

[Probably bumped enough posts now - apologies to anyone slighted ]

[Capn'O]

SGA, Giddey, Ayton, Dort, Mann is a way better core than us.. another team that will pass us smh

#4ish pick. Then if Poku pans at all...

I find what they've done distasteful but Presti is a truly elite gm imo.

I'd +1 this post, except I don't see anything distasteful in what they've done. Notably, they've been bad, but not abysmal over the past 2 years. This isn't the 4 years of an unwatchable team or whatever people think the 6ers had. This year has been fine to watch for OKC fans - you have Giddey showing up, Dort and SGA playing well when available, Poku still flickering signs of genius, even Theo Maledon is a better player than expected. This is infinitely more interesting to watch than the Knicks even if the Knicks won 50% more games.

I don't like that they sat healthy players. Certainly Horford and probably SGA and Giddey, though they have plausible deniability there. Part of my distaste for it is they ARE really fun healthy.

I know it's part of the landscape now but I hate it.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

#4ish pick. Then if Poku pans at all...

I find what they've done distasteful but Presti is a truly elite gm imo.

I'd +1 this post, except I don't see anything distasteful in what they've done. Notably, they've been bad, but not abysmal over the past 2 years. This isn't the 4 years of an unwatchable team or whatever people think the 6ers had. This year has been fine to watch for OKC fans - you have Giddey showing up, Dort and SGA playing well when available, Poku still flickering signs of genius, even Theo Maledon is a better player than expected. This is infinitely more interesting to watch than the Knicks even if the Knicks won 50% more games.

I don't like that they sat healthy players. Certainly Horford and probably SGA and Giddey, though they have plausible deniability there. Part of my distaste for it is they ARE really fun healthy.

I know it's part of the landscape now but I hate it.

Horford, I grant you. That wasn't a great look. On the other hand, I don't think he really wanted to play for the Thunder either and it probably didn't help either party to have him playing.

I'm not sure what the story with SGA is. There was an amount of speculation that the Thunder don't think he matches their current time-line. Hard to tell with that one. They sat him with ~10 games left:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33618931/oklahoma-city-thunder-sit-guard-shai-gilgeous-alexander-rest-season-ankle-injury

Giddey - maybe. This hip injury seems very undefined. But once you get to the hard-core tanking part of the season you should surely hard-core tank if that is your plan.

Agreed - they have been fun.

[Capn'O]

I'd +1 this post, except I don't see anything distasteful in what they've done. Notably, they've been bad, but not abysmal over the past 2 years. This isn't the 4 years of an unwatchable team or whatever people think the 6ers had. This year has been fine to watch for OKC fans - you have Giddey showing up, Dort and SGA playing well when available, Poku still flickering signs of genius, even Theo Maledon is a better player than expected. This is infinitely more interesting to watch than the Knicks even if the Knicks won 50% more games.

I don't like that they sat healthy players. Certainly Horford and probably SGA and Giddey, though they have plausible deniability there. Part of my distaste for it is they ARE really fun healthy.

I know it's part of the landscape now but I hate it.

Horford, I grant you. That wasn't a great look. On the other hand, I don't think he really wanted to play for the Thunder either and it probably didn't help either party to have him playing.

I'm not sure what the story with SGA is. There was an amount of speculation that the Thunder don't think he matches their current time-line. Hard to tell with that one. They sat him with ~10 games left:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33618931/oklahoma-city-thunder-sit-guard-shai-gilgeous-alexander-rest-season-ankle-injury

Giddey - maybe. This hip injury seems very undefined. But once you get to the hard-core tanking part of the season you should surely hard-core tank if that is your plan.

Agreed - they have been fun.

Oh I get it. I just don't like it.

I could see them moving him if they liked a pure SG in the draft. Price would be massive.

[oldshoolballer]

Hated that we let Theo go

Read on Twitter

.

Forget Frank Porzingis Burk Bullock The Mavs got the Knicks most valuable asset. Theo Pinson.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I don't like that they sat healthy players. Certainly Horford and probably SGA and Giddey, though they have plausible deniability there. Part of my distaste for it is they ARE really fun healthy.

I know it's part of the landscape now but I hate it.

Horford, I grant you. That wasn't a great look. On the other hand, I don't think he really wanted to play for the Thunder either and it probably didn't help either party to have him playing.

I'm not sure what the story with SGA is. There was an amount of speculation that the Thunder don't think he matches their current time-line. Hard to tell with that one. They sat him with ~10 games left:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33618931/oklahoma-city-thunder-sit-guard-shai-gilgeous-alexander-rest-season-ankle-injury

Giddey - maybe. This hip injury seems very undefined. But once you get to the hard-core tanking part of the season you should surely hard-core tank if that is your plan.

Agreed - they have been fun.

Oh I get it. I just don't like it.

I could see them moving him if they liked a pure SG in the draft. Price would be massive.

I looked on spotrac and it seems to me that with SGA's max deal and paying their #4, #12 and #30 picks they are right at the cap limit. So I don't really see how they have space to sign Ayton.

[evevale]

After how Luka dominated Suns team, I started to believe more about just being lucky to get the generational stars than drafting 3-4 solid players in the process of tanking years. Luka might've dismantled the whole PHX Suns that is build in 5 years.
That being said, its certainly great to have picks+assets to get Booker-Ayton-Bridges from the rookie years and being able to add pieces with open cap space (CP3-Crowder). Even if PHX decides to rebuild now, they'd be more successful than the last 9 years of Knicks. After all, PHX made NBA Finals.

I also don't believe 76ers-Hinkie to be unsuccessful. 76ers FO have **** up numerous times. 14 months ago Ben Simmons was a top 10 asset in the league. They traded him+picks+rotation players for Harden's expiring. Wtf was that T.Harris move and max contract? Same **** for the Horford deal. 76ers FO constantly wasting assets but since they had so many from the Hinkie era, they're still above water. 76ers getting eliminated in 2nd round comes down to their franchise players 'greatness'? With Butler-Simmons-Embiid, they would make the NBA Finals if Embiid was best of the best. Sorry, Embiid fans but he is not on that level. Kawhi is at that level, Luka is at that level, Durant-prime Curry-Lebron-Giannis-Jokic are there. Hinkie's 76ers core could've made to NBA Finals with better moves. But then again, if your star player is not the best of the best you probably dont win a title.

I was never sold on Booker being that guy, or having the Mamba mentality. I dont think Zion can ever reach there. SGA, Barrett are good but not that caliber. I also dont believe in Ja Morant, he is enjoying elite defense of Memphis, does not impress like Luka-Kawhi, too small. I think Cade Cunnigham might be the next one. Cade showed how he can carry the offense in the 4th quarter with **** team for many games in the second half of the season. Cade can join that Lebron-Luka elite big guards group soon. OKC tanking all those years couldn't get that elite Oklahoma (OSU) product is showing how much 'luck' influence the outcome.

I like this post a lot. Imo Victor will be the actual next one. For me Cade will be a level below elite. I'm also still a big Mobley believer to at least reach level below elite.

Anyway, def should post more. But shorter and more often. And with illustrations. So Evie will read them too.

when a post is more than 1 paragraph ...



it was a lovely post though - don't be a stranger

[WargamesX]

Horford, I grant you. That wasn't a great look. On the other hand, I don't think he really wanted to play for the Thunder either and it probably didn't help either party to have him playing.

I'm not sure what the story with SGA is. There was an amount of speculation that the Thunder don't think he matches their current time-line. Hard to tell with that one. They sat him with ~10 games left:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33618931/oklahoma-city-thunder-sit-guard-shai-gilgeous-alexander-rest-season-ankle-injury

Giddey - maybe. This hip injury seems very undefined. But once you get to the hard-core tanking part of the season you should surely hard-core tank if that is your plan.

Agreed - they have been fun.

Oh I get it. I just don't like it.

I could see them moving him if they liked a pure SG in the draft. Price would be massive.

I looked on spotrac and it seems to me that with SGA's max deal and paying their #4, #12 and #30 picks they are right at the cap limit. So I don't really see how they have space to sign Ayton.

They have assets to move contracts. Though I could see them S&T for Ayton, but basically send back some draft picks and more or less absorb him in cap space.

[Adelheid]

I know, and I agree.

In terms of asset management, the strategy was sound. I was never against it. You can definitely make the case that the Knicks should have tanked for multiple seasons in the late 2010s.

But I disagree with a few points, including the idea that the outcome validates the Process (i.e. that the outcome was a success), or the assumption that Hinkie would've done any better than his successors with his war chest.

It gets an "incomplete."

Tanking is easy. The harder part is finding a sucker for some of the trades he pulled off (Kings and Lakers ripoffs) but imo the success lies in putting together a framework that even mediocre managers can maintain a good to great team with. I mean, they were basically there with Butler.

.

This is something I also have been thinking for a while -- simplify the process a little to help the bad teambuilders out there. They are at the mercy of the elite ones and its not really helping the NBA as a product.