Around the NBA - the sharp end of the playoffs - Randle snubbed for All NBA

[robillionaire]

Strictly from an accolades perspective if Steph loses this finals and never does much else and you look at the body of work with 2 league mvp, 3-3 in the finals, no finals mvp, 2 of them maybe tainted by KDs chicanery, I wouldn’t put him in the tier of an MJ, LeBron, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Magic, maybe a couple others. I’d probably still have him as a borderline top 10 player possibly 10-15. If you’re talking about skills, or stats, or just the fact that he’s so skilled that he is one of the few players who changed the way the game is played I’d have him much higher. But again strictly speaking accolades

Then of course if he wins and you look at it 4-2 in the finals and pin that finals mvp on it he has the accolades of that top tier of guys

[The Lamma]

Steve Kerr sat Draymond for more than 4 minutes in the 4th in a crucial game 4 because according to him he was like playing like trash and Looney wasn't.

When do you think we will find a coach that has the balls and BBIQ to do something like this? I pray and wait eagerly for the day Thibs actually makes a logical substitution.

Thibs? Adjust???

[Gravy]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

[Polk377]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

I had Tatum listed as my #1 prospect in the 17 draft and called him baby Melo for his scoring ability. Would have gladly traded KP for him.

[Chanel Bomber]

Strictly from an accolades perspective if Steph loses this finals and never does much else and you look at the body of work with 2 league mvp, 3-3 in the finals, no finals mvp, 2 of them maybe tainted by KDs chicanery, I wouldn’t put him in the tier of an MJ, LeBron, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Magic, maybe a couple others. I’d probably still have him as a borderline top 10 player possibly 10-15. If you’re talking about skills, or stats, or just the fact that he’s so skilled that he is one of the few players who changed the way the game is played I’d have him much higher. But again strictly speaking accolades

Then of course if he wins and you look at it 4-2 in the finals and pin that finals mvp on it he has the accolades of that top tier of guys

I think I agree with that.

Inversely, I completely disagree with the idea that there's nothing at stake for Steph in these Finals - and I'm a Steph guy. I think a chip here changes everything and would tilt the benefit of the doubt and a lot of hypotheticals in his favor. The flip side is that if he didn't carry the Warriors over the finish line, it would give credence to the arguments of his skeptics, which wouldn't entirely unfair.

More broadly speaking. there has been a sort of contrarian school of thought in sports coverage recently according to which results don't matter in real time anymore, the idea being that people overreact to the latest results, which manifests in the most extreme dismissal of "ring culture" etc. I tend to disagree with that. Some games are simply more important than others.

The next 2-3 games should impact our perception of Steph's legacy. I hope he pulls through.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Who wants to create a new thread?

[EricAnderson]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

Tatum is a much more effecient scorer/player then Mitchell.

[EricAnderson]

I don’t get into any of these debates, including the ones about KD being fake for joining the warriors. I consider any team that is champs in the NBA earned it. It is just too long a season and too difficult to accomplish for me to take that away from anyone.

As far as Steph goes I will never forget one of the finals against the Cavs (don’t know which year) when I remember him literally running laps around the perimeter over and over again in order to get freed to receive the ball late in the game. He was panting and completely exhausted, but he just kept going and pushing. It was one of the greatest displays of effort and tenacity in the sport that I’ve ever seen. Steph could miss every shot the rest of his career and it wouldn’t take away from his accomplishments.

Nah KD going to GS made the league non competitive for a few years.

We’ve never seen a player lose a classic 7 game series then join that team

Would have been like Jordan joining the Pistons instead of trying to beat them or Ewing joining the Bulls after 93.

This is just such a bad take and also doesn’t take anything away from Curry‘s greatness. Where would you have gone? Back to OKC and Westbrook? Definitely not.

I never said it took away from his greatness.

It’s not a bad take what Durant did was a unprecedently weak move by Durant joining a 73 win team that probably would have won the title in 5 games if Draymond doesn’t get suspended.

Why couldn’t he go back to OKC with Westbrook? They were arguably a Klay historic 3rd quarter away from winning a title it’s not like he was on a team with no chance to win

Instead he joined a team that couldn’t lose

[Gravy]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

Tatum is a much more effecient scorer/player then Mitchell.

Tatum is better but they are both great young players with multiple all star appearances

[EricAnderson]

I don’t get into any of these debates, including the ones about KD being fake for joining the warriors. I consider any team that is champs in the NBA earned it. It is just too long a season and too difficult to accomplish for me to take that away from anyone.

As far as Steph goes I will never forget one of the finals against the Cavs (don’t know which year) when I remember him literally running laps around the perimeter over and over again in order to get freed to receive the ball late in the game. He was panting and completely exhausted, but he just kept going and pushing. It was one of the greatest displays of effort and tenacity in the sport that I’ve ever seen. Steph could miss every shot the rest of his career and it wouldn’t take away from his accomplishments.

Nah KD going to GS made the league non competitive for a few years.

We’ve never seen a player lose a classic 7 game series then join that team

Would have been like Jordan joining the Pistons instead of trying to beat them or Ewing joining the Bulls after 93.

I’m not on board with this or the apparent consensus about player motives for signing with any club. If KD’s contract was up and it was time to sign a new one he could have stayed in OKC which he didn’t want to do. If he had signed with a struggling small market club then I suppose that would make him a man a character. I think the whole premise is bollocks no matter what choice a player makes.

We all know KD’s personality is sort of fragile and he makes his choices for reasons that may include not wanting to deal with the heat generated by our crazy fan base. But it still means zip to me that he chose GS when it was time to pick a club to go to. Lebron is a an all-time great and he chose to take his talents to South Beach.

Fukem both if that is how you feel, but it still takes nothing away from either one in my opinion when they won their rings. They deserved the honor of being called a champion no matter what snotty fans say. And fck KD for tearing his achilles in the finals when he tried to help out his club when he should have been recuperating instead. What a loser.

I never said it took away from Durant’s greatness it was just weak and destroyed competition for a few years.

Durant going to a 73 win team made them basically unbeatable. Took them to get ravaged by injuries to finally lose

[EricAnderson]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

Tatum is a much more effecient scorer/player then Mitchell.

Tatum is better but they are both great young players with multiple all star appearances

Great is a stretch for Mitchell. He’s way too inefficient.

His problem also is his miscast. If you want to win a title he should be your second or third best player not first

[3toheadmelo]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

I remember the days I went to war for Tatum against the majority of this board fun times..

[Spree2Houston]

If the Warriors lose, this could tarnish their legacy. Their 1st title came against the Cavs team missing Love and Irving. Their next 2 came with KD when the talent level became unfair. This year would’ve been their first legitimate title without KD or injuries on the opposition side. If they lose, I wouldn’t put these Warriors in the same elite tier of the 90s Bulls

[Gravy]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

I remember the days I went to war for Tatum against the majority of this board fun times..

You still are and he's in the finals.

If he loses people are waiting to say he sucks

[3toheadmelo]

Tatum wasnt even seen as a better prospect than KP a few years ago. Only 1 Knicks fan would have traded him for KP. Fans said he wasnt a superstar and Boston needed to keep tanking to get anywhere, same kind of things people say about Donovan Mitchell now


viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1789375&start=140

I remember the days I went to war for Tatum against the majority of this board fun times..

You still are and he's in the finals.

If he loses people are waiting to say he sucks

Facts
The people that say he sucks have the worst takes ever and have an affinity for losing players so it doesn’t bother me. Tatum made it to the finals as the best player so that alone is prob keeping them up at night

It’s worth noting that Lebron shot 35% from the field in his first finals appearance too. I am guessing they hated on him too. Lol

[Gravy]

Tatum is a much more effecient scorer/player then Mitchell.

Tatum is better but they are both great young players with multiple all star appearances

Great is a stretch for Mitchell. He’s way too inefficient.

His problem also is his miscast. If you want to win a title he should be your second or third best player not first

The next best players on his team are Rudy Gobert and Bogdanovic, they are not scaring anyone. People said Booker Tatum Giannis Butler all couldnt be the best player on their teams at some point until they proved it or got a better surrounding cast. If Curry didnt have Klay and Draymond we would have said the same thing about him too.

[EricAnderson]

Tatum is better but they are both great young players with multiple all star appearances

Great is a stretch for Mitchell. He’s way too inefficient.

His problem also is his miscast. If you want to win a title he should be your second or third best player not first

The next best players on his team are Rudy Gobert and Bogdanovic, they are not scaring anyone. People said Booker Tatum Giannis Butler all couldnt be the best player on their teams at some point until they proved it or got a better surrounding cast. If Curry didnt have Klay and Draymond we would have said the same thing about him too.

Mitchell is not as good as any of those guys mentioned because he’s inefficient

You can’t build your team around a small guard who shoots 43 percent from the field

[robillionaire]

Strictly from an accolades perspective if Steph loses this finals and never does much else and you look at the body of work with 2 league mvp, 3-3 in the finals, no finals mvp, 2 of them maybe tainted by KDs chicanery, I wouldn’t put him in the tier of an MJ, LeBron, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Magic, maybe a couple others. I’d probably still have him as a borderline top 10 player possibly 10-15. If you’re talking about skills, or stats, or just the fact that he’s so skilled that he is one of the few players who changed the way the game is played I’d have him much higher. But again strictly speaking accolades

Then of course if he wins and you look at it 4-2 in the finals and pin that finals mvp on it he has the accolades of that top tier of guys

I think I agree with that.

Inversely, I completely disagree with the idea that there's nothing at stake for Steph in these Finals - and I'm a Steph guy. I think a chip here changes everything and would tilt the benefit of the doubt and a lot of hypotheticals in his favor. The flip side is that if he didn't carry the Warriors over the finish line, it would give credence to the arguments of his skeptics, which wouldn't entirely unfair.

More broadly speaking. there has been a sort of contrarian school of thought in sports coverage recently according to which results don't matter in real time anymore, the idea being that people overreact to the latest results, which manifests in the most extreme dismissal of "ring culture" etc. I tend to disagree with that. Some games are simply more important than others.

The next 2-3 games should impact our perception of Steph's legacy. I hope he pulls through.

it’s kinda crazy that 2-3 games one way or the other would have such an impact on how a player is perceived but that’s how it is. Imagine the perception of a Ewing or Barkley or Malone or Reggie if they won a couple more games and got a ring. Or someone who did get 1 ring if they lost another game or two and never won. Or you change maybe a dozen games in lebron’s career he’s got 10 rings. So yeah sometimes it do be like that. I like Steph so I hope he wins as he deserves it

[GettinitDone]

Zion said "I do want to be here" (New Orleans)... buy or sell?

To me, sell. He's only saying it because he knows he hasn't done much for the team and mostly feels at fault to Pels owners and fanbase for missing entire last season. He only says what they want to hear and once he secures the max contract, he'll have the same NYK destination mentality.

CJ is one intellectual cat though, listening to him on ESPN, he has this leader of men quality (I see why he's NBPA pres) and I can see him convincing Zion to stick around/ maybe like how Dame stuck around Portland and never uttered demands to ownerships until CJ left.

[robillionaire]

Zion said "I do want to be here" (New Orleans)... buy or sell?

To me, sell. He's only saying it because he knows he hasn't done much for the team and mostly feels at fault to Pels owners and fanbase for missing entire last season. He only says what they want to hear and once he secures the max contract, he'll have the same NYK destination mentality.

CJ is one intellectual cat though, listening to him on ESPN, he has this leader of men quality (I see why he's NBPA pres) and I can see him convincing Zion to stick around/ maybe like how Dame stuck around Portland and never uttered demands to ownerships until CJ left.

it took Anthony Davis 7 years to dig his way out of there and that’s how long it will take Zion. He is 3 years in, 4 to go before he can realistically escape.