With the 11th pick, the NY Knicks select???

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Should trade the pick for a vet who can help now. (Obviously would send Kemba and any combo of Burks/Noel to make the trade work. RJ's a slightly different question.)

Knicks primary needs: a centre (Mitch dependent); a good SF (RJ should be shipped); a PG. Any $20m-$25m a year worthwhile player is a candidate. These will be bargains in 2 years in the new TV & salary cap regime. I draw the line just above Scary Terry, but it's somewhere in that ball-park.

[Iron Mantis]

Should trade the pick for a vet who can help now. (Obviously would send Kemba and any combo of Burks/Noel to make the trade work. RJ's a slightly different question.)

Knicks primary needs: a centre (Mitch dependent); a good SF (RJ should be shipped); a PG. Any $20m-$25m a year worthwhile player is a candidate. These will be bargains in 2 years in the new TV & salary cap regime. I draw the line just above Scary Terry, but it's somewhere in that ball-park.

Insanity treadmill of below-medicore purgatory forever.

Trade the 11th pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, finish the season with 37 wins, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick...

Trade that pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, win 37 games, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick.

Trade that pick for...

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Should trade the pick for a vet who can help now. (Obviously would send Kemba and any combo of Burks/Noel to make the trade work. RJ's a slightly different question.)

Knicks primary needs: a centre (Mitch dependent); a good SF (RJ should be shipped); a PG. Any $20m-$25m a year worthwhile player is a candidate. These will be bargains in 2 years in the new TV & salary cap regime. I draw the line just above Scary Terry, but it's somewhere in that ball-park.

Insanity treadmill of below-medicore purgatory forever.

Trade the 11th pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, finish the season with 37 wins, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick...

Trade that pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, win 37 games, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick.

Trade that pick for...

Your idea in this post just demonstrates of the futility of actually drafting the #11 pick. Although you haven't quite realized it. Doing that has, in your view, literally the same worth as a player that will ensure the same result. Given trading value for value. But playing the lottery is in fact dumb, still, because too many GMs want to do it. You get an incremental upgrade by trading your picks for experienced players, with much lower expected variance (EV). Actually drafting a #11 pick is a negative proposition. (Where the boundary lies depends on the players in the draft - and ofc, the team doing the drafting's current roster - drafting if you had the one of the first two picks in 2018 was fine.)

However, the Knicks certainly don't need a #11 pick to join their over-congested roster right now. What they need is gradual improvement in the era when they have Randle (and to a lesser extent Fournier) on cheap (comparatively) contracts - through upgrading actual NBA players.

Now, to be clear, I am all for burning everything down and setting sail for 2028. Despite Chanel Bomber wimping out (cravenly) and despite the changes in the lottery odds, I'm still a Process/Hinkie advocate. It's so good a scheme that despite the NBA blackballing the guy who invented it and making some feeble attempt to stimie it, it is still an excellent strategy, particularly for a team like the Knicks if you subtract Randle and Fournier (and assume Rose is on a steep down-slope). Fwiw, OKC - with a FO about 1000% smarter than the NYK is showing this - and it doesn't matter a jot what the results for them in 2026 actually are. (Don't be fooled by real world outcomes - because the sample size is too small.)

However, the Knicks aren't there. 2020-2021 was a freak year - freakishly good; 2021-2022 was freakishly bad (and a lot of that was on the FO - particularly, Kemba being cooked (seems like peak world wide wes contact driven disaster), whilst Rose being a zero is still hard to tell). Going forward the Knicks should build around the 5/6 good players they have (Randle, Fournier, IQ, -Mitch if he'll resign for $15m- and then we're scraping the barrel but maybe Obi or Grimes) by adding mid-late 20s vets.

We're not asking them to win the league in 2022-2023. We're asking them to get to the playoffs and see how that feels. That process typically takes at least one year for each step up of round achieved.

[EMG518]

Ousmane Dieng if he is available at 11. Honestly no idea where he gets drafted. I have him going 12th in my mock to OKC after we make the mistake of taking Mathurin.

If Johnny Davis fell I would be looking at him as well.

If neither of them are there Jalen Williams is interesting.

I want us to move up a bit from our 2nd rounder and draft Gabriele Procida as well.

[Luv those Knicks]

Your idea in this post just demonstrates of the futility of actually drafting the #11 pick. Although you haven't quite realized it. Doing that has, in your view, literally the same worth as a player that will ensure the same result. Given trading value for value. But playing the lottery is in fact dumb, still, because too many GMs want to do it. You get an incremental upgrade by trading your picks for experienced players, with much lower expected variance (EV). Actually drafting a #11 pick is a negative proposition. (Where the boundary lies depends on the players in the draft - and ofc, the team doing the drafting's current roster - drafting if you had the one of the first two picks in 2018 was fine.)

However, the Knicks certainly don't need a #11 pick to join their over-congested roster right now. What they need is gradual improvement in the era when they have Randle (and to a lesser extent Fournier) on cheap (comparatively) contracts - through upgrading actual NBA players.

Now, to be clear, I am all for burning everything down and setting sail for 2028. Despite Chanel Bomber wimping out (cravenly) and despite the changes in the lottery odds, I'm still a Process/Hinkie advocate. It's so good a scheme that despite the NBA blackballing the guy who invented it and making some feeble attempt to stimie it, it is still an excellent strategy, particularly for a team like the Knicks if you subtract Randle and Fournier (and assume Rose is on a steep down-slope). Fwiw, OKC - with a FO about 1000% smarter than the NYK is showing this - and it doesn't matter a jot what the results for them in 2026 actually are. (Don't be fooled by real world outcomes - because the sample size is too small.)

However, the Knicks aren't there. 2020-2021 was a freak year - freakishly good; 2021-2022 was freakishly bad (and a lot of that was on the FO - particularly, Kemba being cooked (seems like peak world wide wes contact driven disaster), whilst Rose being a zero is still hard to tell). Going forward the Knicks should build around the 5/6 good players they have (Randle, Fournier, IQ, -Mitch if he'll resign for $15m- and then we're scraping the barrel but maybe Obi or Grimes) by adding mid-late 20s vets.

We're not asking them to win the league in 2022-2023. We're asking them to get to the playoffs and see how that feels. That process typically takes at least one year for each step up of round achieved.

I'm a little confused by this. Do you think the Knicks are on their way someplace good? That 2021-22 was just a bad year?

Just to play devil's advocate . . . or whatever it is, if I pretend you're right, which means you're the devil, so maybe I should use a different term, but to take your side of the argument

1 - gotta keep Mitch, not sure what he costs but 10-15 million a year? Can't lose him and try for playoffs.

2 - trade the #11 pick for a vet, probably a PG.

3 - use the MLE to sign another Vet.

Go to war with what we have and probably see another first round playoff exit.

Is your approach possible? Yes. It's absolutely possible.

Will it ever get the Knicks to a championship? I don't think so. I don't see the talent required to do that. I see a 45 win team.

So . . . is that what you want? Do you see a better outcome than 45 wins and a one and done with this approach?


Cause, I'd rather draft the best player available, even if htey are a young team . . . and stay young. Draft a lottory pick again in 2023 and see what developes. Get under the cap in 2024 or 2025 and see who they can sign to add to their youth movement. To me - that's the way to go. Little question.

[ellobo]

With the 11th pick, the NY Knicks select???

Medi Ocrity

Can he at least play defense and shoot the three?

he's ok, definite mehmet okur vibes. I like medi a lot actually.

Is he Turkish?

I don't really follow international basketball

[iLLmatic860]

We trading the pick aint we?

[waya]

Should trade the pick for a vet who can help now. (Obviously would send Kemba and any combo of Burks/Noel to make the trade work. RJ's a slightly different question.)

Knicks primary needs: a centre (Mitch dependent); a good SF (RJ should be shipped); a PG. Any $20m-$25m a year worthwhile player is a candidate. These will be bargains in 2 years in the new TV & salary cap regime. I draw the line just above Scary Terry, but it's somewhere in that ball-park.

Insanity treadmill of below-medicore purgatory forever.

Trade the 11th pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, finish the season with 37 wins, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick...

Trade that pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, win 37 games, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick.

Trade that pick for...

I agree with the sentiment but to be fair we've been pretty good about not trading our picks since, when? the Bargnani trade? Hopefully it stays that way

Now if only we didn't completely whiff on picks like Frank and Knox

[moocow007]

No idea who the Knicks will select but I would focus on the following guys (in no particular order): Mathurin, Duren, Sochan, Brown, Daniels. Duren is probably unlikely but there are a couple mocks that have the Knicks taking him at 11.

[Iron Mantis]

Should trade the pick for a vet who can help now. (Obviously would send Kemba and any combo of Burks/Noel to make the trade work. RJ's a slightly different question.)

Knicks primary needs: a centre (Mitch dependent); a good SF (RJ should be shipped); a PG. Any $20m-$25m a year worthwhile player is a candidate. These will be bargains in 2 years in the new TV & salary cap regime. I draw the line just above Scary Terry, but it's somewhere in that ball-park.

Insanity treadmill of below-medicore purgatory forever.

Trade the 11th pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, finish the season with 37 wins, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick...

Trade that pick for a mediocre journeyman vet, win 37 games, miss the playoffs, get the 11th pick.

Trade that pick for...

I agree with the sentiment but to be fair we've been pretty good about not trading our picks since, when? the Bargnani trade? Hopefully it stays that way

Now if only we didn't completely whiff on picks like Frank and Knox

So far, Leon Rose has been quite decent at drafting. Shouldn't have passed on Hali, but if Obi turns out to be really good, and Randle is somehow flipped into a young guard (hopefully packaged for a top 7 pick), all is forgiven.

I'm sold on Mathurin...Knicks need him. Fournier needs to be exiled.

[SmoothLefty21]

I'm sure we'll take Mark Williams after we let Mitch walk and he'll be a bust.

[sol537]

Mitch + #11 + filler for Ayton? I could see it...

[SARGO127]

Mitch + #11 + filler for Ayton? I could see it...

Illegal trade CBA-wise

[Manhattan Project]

Aside from Duren and Williams, there's no pick with a possible shot at playing time early this year. Duren looks like he can be a Drummond type talent with the same motivation issues at times. It took Thibs two years to embrace Obi if you believe those reports to be true, so I could only imagine how long it would take with Duren. Williams looks like he'll be a good defensive center, but I rather go after Robinson/Kessler in the late first round if we were dead set on taking a Mitch Robinson potential long term replacement.

Griffin/Davis/Mathurin will have competition in Fournier, Quickley, Burks, Grimes, Reddish and RJ.

It pretty much leaves Washington as the only other guy that would have a chance on playing this year, but even with him he'd have to get through Rose, Quickley, Burks, McBride and if the Knicks selected a PG, it would show that they don't have that much faith in Rokas coming over anytime soon.

It's the same story, Knicks need to consolidate in the worst way instead of just collecting pieces that have no fit in the short or long term.

[cgmw]

Aside from Duren and Williams, there's no pick with a possible shot at playing time early this year. Duren looks like he can be a Drummond type talent with the same motivation issues at times. It took Thibs two years to embrace Obi if you believe those reports to be true, so I could only imagine how long it would take with Duren. Williams looks like he'll be a good defensive center, but I rather go after Robinson/Kessler in the late first round if we were dead set on taking a Mitch Robinson potential long term replacement.

Griffin/Davis/Mathurin will have competition in Fournier, Quickley, Burks, Grimes, Reddish and RJ.

It pretty much leaves Washington as the only other guy that would have a chance on playing this year, but even with him he'd have to get through Rose, Quickley, Burks, McBride and if the Knicks selected a PG, it would show that they don't have that much faith in Rokas coming over anytime soon.

It's the same story, Knicks need to consolidate in the worst way instead of just collecting pieces that have no fit in the short or long term.

They’re stuck in a post-Isiah purgatory where they know it’s wrong to trade all your picks/youth for disgruntled stars, but they haven’t figured out a viable alternative since they stubbornly insist on stacking the roster with middling vets and a vet-centric coach.

They really really really want to trade all their picks and recent draftees for established stars, and the longer they wait the bigger mess the roster becomes. Watch them acquire even more veterans this summer to play ahead of rookie scale players.

[WargamesX]

Aside from Duren and Williams, there's no pick with a possible shot at playing time early this year. Duren looks like he can be a Drummond type talent with the same motivation issues at times. It took Thibs two years to embrace Obi if you believe those reports to be true, so I could only imagine how long it would take with Duren. Williams looks like he'll be a good defensive center, but I rather go after Robinson/Kessler in the late first round if we were dead set on taking a Mitch Robinson potential long term replacement.

Griffin/Davis/Mathurin will have competition in Fournier, Quickley, Burks, Grimes, Reddish and RJ.

It pretty much leaves Washington as the only other guy that would have a chance on playing this year, but even with him he'd have to get through Rose, Quickley, Burks, McBride and if the Knicks selected a PG, it would show that they don't have that much faith in Rokas coming over anytime soon.

It's the same story, Knicks need to consolidate in the worst way instead of just collecting pieces that have no fit in the short or long term.

They’re stuck in a post-Isiah purgatory where they know it’s wrong to trade all your picks/youth for disgruntled stars, but they haven’t figured out a viable alternative since they stubbornly insist on stacking the roster with middling vets and a vet-centric coach.

They really really really want to trade all their picks and recent draftees for established stars, and the longer they wait the bigger mess the roster becomes. Watch them acquire even more veterans this summer to play ahead of rookie scale players.

Don't forget they make a lot of money selling tickets to tourists to come and see celebrity row and only need to get to the playoffs to justify ticket price increases. Any realization this team made is based on the fact the Nets are in Brooklyn so they can't be too polarizing, and rookies are cheaper to acquire and let go for nothing than most crap vets because that Charlie Ward curse is part of the business plan.

[louisorr]

Can he at least play defense and shoot the three?

he's ok, definite mehmet okur vibes. I like medi a lot actually.

Is he Turkish?

I don't really follow international basketball

he's actually Barren David's third cousin

[louisorr]

I actually have no idea who this team should target. they seem to be in eat what you kill mode again, where no one has really proven to be better or worse than anyone else. I guess when you change philosophies and decide to keep your picks while at the same time stunt development for half a decade with win now mentality, you wind up like this.

[F N 11]

Off-season is a mystery. We need to pick a direction and stick to it.

[DrCoach]

Tari Eason has a higher PER than Obis player of the year season

Just saying