Fresh New Coaches Needed

[Chanel Bomber]

Yeah, you can "easily" find anyone if you have the right management leading your team. We never have.

Steve Kerr
Erik Spoelstra
Ime Udoka
Willie Green
Quin Snyder
Nick Nurse
Monty Williams
Chris Finch
Mike Budenholzer
Taylor Jenkins
Jamahl Mosley
JB Bickerstaff
Darvin Ham

All these guys were plucked out of assistant coach obscurity. It can be done. That's a good chunk of coaches in the league. Let's stop acting like we are hard on luck and it's so rare to find a good or great coach.

Thibodeau is not built to win in today's NBA with his style of play. Maybe in 1995 but not in 2022. His offense is pathetic and even the defense fell off a bit. His tenure here will end like the one in Minnesota - in flames. And that has a lot to do with him. He has a lot of say in roster decisions. His good friend is the President. If you don't think he's shaping the roster to his liking then not sure what to tell you.

Leon is running basketball operations by committee. He's not just catering to Thibs's demands. He wouldn't have signed Fournier and let Bullock go if that were the case. Thibs wanted Bullock back and they let him go.

You can find good coaches. Great coaches like Kerr and Spoelstra are extremely hard to find. These guys are historically great coaches, and they too have had awful moments, sometimes even costing their team playoff series with their decisions.

Budenholzer is similar to Thibs - he's just as stubborn as him. Snyder has refused to adjust in the playoffs two seasons in a row now. Are they that much different from Thibs? Or are you just judging them based on the success of their teams, which are far more talented than the Knicks? There's no evidence that JB Bickerstaff and Darvin Ham are better coaches than Thibs at this point. Maybe they are - I don't know that we can make that assessment yet.

Thibs won in today's NBA just last year, when the Knicks got the #4 seed in the East with an utterly mediocre roster. Granted, i don't think he can be successful in the playoffs, because similar to Bud, Rivers and Snyder, he's too slow to adjust. But I don't think it's reasonable to say that he absolutely can't coach in today's NBA when the evidence from just a year ago suggests the contrary.

I think he's an average coach on the whole, who did a great job in the regular season last year and a poor one since. I think he deserves another year to prove himself. I'm fine with replacing him now with a more progressive voice, but to act like Thibs can't coach is a massive exaggeration.

The team lacks talent.

Thibodeau has significant say in personnel decisions.

I see now that you are a Thibodeau supporter much like Burks. Sorry man, I don't have the energy to fight about the Knicks. I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. I've watch the Knicks for too long to see how this is going to end. I don't care and the #4 seed in front of zero fans. Much like Julius Randle, that turned out to be a fluke. It will not happen again. Not because I don't want it to, because I'll be glad to be wrong. But it won't even be close. The team will be lucky to make the playoffs again with Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau. And that's both a coaching and roster issue.

This "Thibs supporter" label is meaningless and rings hollow. I was critical of the Thibs hire, and I have been critical of his coaching on many occasions since.

I just don't buy these exaggerated narratives that are meant to use Thibs as a scapegoat for the Knicks failures, such as the notion that Thibs is incompetent, that idea that the league has completely passed him by, and the exaggeration that he "doesn't play the kids" (which is only partially true).

Just as I didn't buy the narrative that he was the best coach in the NBA last season. Both of these positions are extremes that I don't consider to be realistic.

But I understand, people want to see blood when the results aren't there (due to a glaring lack of talent). It always happens. I'll admit that it's an effective coping mechanism if the plan is to protect players who symbolize hope from accountability or merely judgement (in this case the youth). It keeps the hope alive.

And every experienced coach is probably part of the conversation in personnel moves. That doesn't mean they have final say. Thibs didn't get what he wanted when they let Bullock go and when they signed Fournier. You think Reddish was a Thibs move? Rose and Noel were definitely moves that Thibs lobbied for. It's a mixed bag.

I don't expect the Knicks to make the playoffs again in the next few years either. I think it's a talent issue moreso than a coaching issue. Poppovich missed the playoffs and Doc Rivers made the playoffs this season. Talent is the overwhelming factor in the regular season for the most part in my opinion, although coaching can make a difference.

[Gravy]

Steve Kerr admitted he would have been fired if Phil hired him to coach here. Kerr would not have turned Frank and Courtney Lee into Steph and Klay just like Udoka is not tuning RJ into Tatum. Knicks didnt even have a pg this year and there's 3 players in the starting lineup that cant shoot. I'd fix those problems first before asking any coach to perform miracles to get them to win

[F N 11]

If Johnnie Bryant has no influence then he may not be next up.

[Hes_On_Fire]

Leon is running basketball operations by committee. He's not just catering to Thibs's demands. He wouldn't have signed Fournier and let Bullock go if that were the case. Thibs wanted Bullock back and they let him go.

You can find good coaches. Great coaches like Kerr and Spoelstra are extremely hard to find. These guys are historically great coaches, and they too have had awful moments, sometimes even costing their team playoff series with their decisions.

Budenholzer is similar to Thibs - he's just as stubborn as him. Snyder has refused to adjust in the playoffs two seasons in a row now. Are they that much different from Thibs? Or are you just judging them based on the success of their teams, which are far more talented than the Knicks? There's no evidence that JB Bickerstaff and Darvin Ham are better coaches than Thibs at this point. Maybe they are - I don't know that we can make that assessment yet.

Thibs won in today's NBA just last year, when the Knicks got the #4 seed in the East with an utterly mediocre roster. Granted, i don't think he can be successful in the playoffs, because similar to Bud, Rivers and Snyder, he's too slow to adjust. But I don't think it's reasonable to say that he absolutely can't coach in today's NBA when the evidence from just a year ago suggests the contrary.

I think he's an average coach on the whole, who did a great job in the regular season last year and a poor one since. I think he deserves another year to prove himself. I'm fine with replacing him now with a more progressive voice, but to act like Thibs can't coach is a massive exaggeration.

The team lacks talent.

Thibodeau has significant say in personnel decisions.

I see now that you are a Thibodeau supporter much like Burks. Sorry man, I don't have the energy to fight about the Knicks. I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. I've watch the Knicks for too long to see how this is going to end. I don't care and the #4 seed in front of zero fans. Much like Julius Randle, that turned out to be a fluke. It will not happen again. Not because I don't want it to, because I'll be glad to be wrong. But it won't even be close. The team will be lucky to make the playoffs again with Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau. And that's both a coaching and roster issue.

This sort of dichomtic "Thibs supporter" label is meaningless and rings hollow. I was critical of the Thibs hire, and I have been critical of his coaching on many occasions since.

I just don't buy these exaggerated narratives that are meant to use Thibs as a scapegoat for the Knicks failures, such as the notion that Thibs is incompetent, that idea that the league has completely passed him by, and the exaggeration that he "doesn't play the kids" (which is only partially true).

Just as I didn't buy the narrative that he was the best coach in the NBA last season. Both of these positions are extremes that I don't consider to be realistic.

But I understand, people want to see blood when the results aren't there (due to a glaring lack of talent). It always happens. I'll admit that it's an effective coping mechanism if the plan is to protect players who symbolize hope from accountability or merely judgement (in this case the youth). It keeps the hope alive.

And every experienced coach is probably part of the conversation in personnel moves. That doesn't mean they have final say. Thibs didn't get what he wanted when they let Bullock go and when they signed Fournier. You think Reddish was a Thibs move? Rose and Noel were definitely moves that Thibs lobbied for. It's a mixed bag.

I don't expect the Knicks to make the playoffs again in the next few years either. I think it's a talent issue moreso than a coaching issue. Poppovich missed the playoffs and Doc Rivers made the playoffs this season. Talent is the overwhelming factor in the regular season.

Like I said, I'm not going to argue about the Knicks. You and I are on completely different spectrums in terms of where we stand and we'll never agree.

Calling Thibodeau not playing young players a "narrative" is funny to me. If it was a narrative amongst Knicks fans only it would be nothing. When fans of the Bulls and Wolves and the media are all in agreement then it's no longer a narrative.

The fact is that Grimes was not going to play without an injury to Rose. If Elfrid Payton was still on the roster he would still be playing. We've discussed this before when you kept insisting that Thibs would play young players over veterans to win when he hasn't proven that at any of his previous stops.

You can also keep insisting Thibodeau has little say in personnel matters but this simply is not true. The Cam Reddish trade is a blip on the radar. The majority of the roster is Thibs-approved. Which is why it's a bad roster. Nobody thinks Thibodeau is a great GM. He certainly proved that in Minnesota.

Pointing out the reality has nothing to do with "keeping hope alive". The Knicks have no hope at all. This has nothing to do with false hope and everything to do with the fact that Tom Thibodeau is not a good coach for the modern NBA - regardless of one fluke season - and that his vets over young players to win at all costs and end up with the 12th pick is the mentality that has plagued the franchise for a better part of the last 20 years. By refusing to building through the draft we will continue to be an awful franchise. Thibodeau is going to be 65 years old. He's not going to be here to develop guys in the G League or play through mistakes. He didn't do that 10 years ago and he certainly isn't going to waste his final years coaching trying to develop young players for a bad team. Which is why he'll be fired after this coming season.

[3toheadmelo]

Steve Kerr admitted he would have been fired if Phil hired him to coach here. Kerr would not have turned Frank and Courtney Lee into Steph and Klay just like Udoka is not tuning RJ into Tatum. Knicks didnt even have a pg this year and there's 3 players in the starting lineup that cant shoot. I'd fix those problems first before asking any coach to perform miracles to get them to win

I do think Udoka would've been a pretty good hire. He seems to be putting his players in better positions. I'd imagine he'd make things easier for Randle like he has with Tatum. Tatum has grown into a legit playmaker under Udoka and their offense is not really ISO heavy like it used to be.

Agreed with the Kerr point though. I was pretty bummed at first when we didn't hire him. But looking back on how everything played out, it would've been an epic fail. And I say this because not only would he have no talent to coach with, but Phil Jackson was essentially using guys like Fisher and Hornacek as his own puppets to coach his outdated triangle offense. So Kerr would have never gotten a chance to coach how he wanted anyways. Melo said in an interview last year that Phil didn't let Hornacek run the team how he wanted. It was a bad look for Phil

[Chanel Bomber]

Thibodeau has significant say in personnel decisions.

I see now that you are a Thibodeau supporter much like Burks. Sorry man, I don't have the energy to fight about the Knicks. I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. I've watch the Knicks for too long to see how this is going to end. I don't care and the #4 seed in front of zero fans. Much like Julius Randle, that turned out to be a fluke. It will not happen again. Not because I don't want it to, because I'll be glad to be wrong. But it won't even be close. The team will be lucky to make the playoffs again with Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau. And that's both a coaching and roster issue.

This sort of dichomtic "Thibs supporter" label is meaningless and rings hollow. I was critical of the Thibs hire, and I have been critical of his coaching on many occasions since.

I just don't buy these exaggerated narratives that are meant to use Thibs as a scapegoat for the Knicks failures, such as the notion that Thibs is incompetent, that idea that the league has completely passed him by, and the exaggeration that he "doesn't play the kids" (which is only partially true).

Just as I didn't buy the narrative that he was the best coach in the NBA last season. Both of these positions are extremes that I don't consider to be realistic.

But I understand, people want to see blood when the results aren't there (due to a glaring lack of talent). It always happens. I'll admit that it's an effective coping mechanism if the plan is to protect players who symbolize hope from accountability or merely judgement (in this case the youth). It keeps the hope alive.

And every experienced coach is probably part of the conversation in personnel moves. That doesn't mean they have final say. Thibs didn't get what he wanted when they let Bullock go and when they signed Fournier. You think Reddish was a Thibs move? Rose and Noel were definitely moves that Thibs lobbied for. It's a mixed bag.

I don't expect the Knicks to make the playoffs again in the next few years either. I think it's a talent issue moreso than a coaching issue. Poppovich missed the playoffs and Doc Rivers made the playoffs this season. Talent is the overwhelming factor in the regular season.

Like I said, I'm not going to argue about the Knicks. You and I are on completely different spectrums in terms of where we stand and we'll never agree.

Calling Thibodeau not playing young players a "narrative" is funny to me. If it was a narrative amongst Knicks fans only it would be nothing. When fans of the Bulls and Wolves and the media are all in agreement then it's no longer a narrative.

The fact is that Grimes was not going to play without an injury to Rose. If Elfrid Payton was still on the roster he would still be playing. We've discussed this before when you kept insisting that Thibs would play young players over veterans to win when he hasn't proven that at any of his previous stops.

You can also keep insisting Thibodeau has little say in personnel matters but this simply is not true. The Cam Reddish trade is a blip on the radar. The majority of the roster is Thibs-approved. Which is why it's a bad roster. Nobody thinks Thibodeau is a great GM. He certainly proved that in Minnesota.

Pointing out the reality has nothing to do with "keeping hope alive". The Knicks have no hope at all. This has nothing to do with false hope and everything to do with the fact that Tom Thibodeau is not a good coach for the modern NBA - regardless of one fluke season - and that his vets over young players to win at all costs and end up with the 12th pick is the mentality that has plagued the franchise for a better part of the last 20 years. By refusing to building through the draft we will continue to be an awful franchise. Thibodeau is going to be 65 years old. He's not going to be here to develop guys in the G League or play through mistakes. He didn't do that 10 years ago and he certainly isn't going to waste his final years coaching trying to develop young players for a bad team. Which is why he'll be fired after this coming season.

How can you say you're not going to argue about the Knicks when you literally quoted me to argue about the Knicks?

Why quote me if you don't want to argue

Big picture I don't think our positions are actually that different. But I doubt that you (even want to) understand what my position actually is for you to say that we stand on opposite ends of the spectrum.

You didn't acknowledge the Bullock/Fournier decisions that Thibs was reportedly against. That's an additional two moves on top of the Reddish trade that Thibodeau presumably didn't sign off on. I think it is obvious and it has been reported that his voice is heard, but that doesn't mean he has final say.

I don't care what fans of the Bulls and TImberwolves say about Thibs - I can judge his work on the Knicks for myself. Those are subjective opinions that also fit into grander narratives. But Wiggins and Towns played a ton of minutes and got their first taste of playoff basketball under Thibs, largely thanks to Jimmy Butler. Thibs brought Jimmy along slowly in Chicago, but that didn't prevent him from becoming a star under Thibs.

Which golden talents did Thibodeau waste in Chicago and Minnesota? Marquis Teague? Erik Murphy? Tony Snell? Cameron Bairstow? James Johnson? Kris Dunn? Josh Okogie? Keita Bates-Diop? Or maybe these fans were desperate too and had disproportionate expectations about these players as well?

RJ played. Mitch played. IQ played. Grimes was a late first-round draft pick and earned a spot in the rotation after Rose got hurt - he played. It's not unusual for late first rounders to start the season on the bench for a veteran team that is expected to compete. You don't like those veterans? Blame Leon. Obi didn't play much because he is stuck behind Randle and because Thibs doesn't like to play without a rim protector - something I have consistently criticized him for. The Knicks already had a logjam on the wings when they traded for Cam and it's the FO's failure for failing to address it before the trade deadline.

And I'm not saying Thibs has done a brilliant job in terms of giving "the kids" opportunities. I have complained about the ceiling on IQ's minutes and his refusal to play Obi at the 5 for months now. But this sweeping generalization that "Thibs doesn't play the kids" is a massive exaggeration. It's only partially true.

[Hes_On_Fire]

This sort of dichomtic "Thibs supporter" label is meaningless and rings hollow. I was critical of the Thibs hire, and I have been critical of his coaching on many occasions since.

I just don't buy these exaggerated narratives that are meant to use Thibs as a scapegoat for the Knicks failures, such as the notion that Thibs is incompetent, that idea that the league has completely passed him by, and the exaggeration that he "doesn't play the kids" (which is only partially true).

Just as I didn't buy the narrative that he was the best coach in the NBA last season. Both of these positions are extremes that I don't consider to be realistic.

But I understand, people want to see blood when the results aren't there (due to a glaring lack of talent). It always happens. I'll admit that it's an effective coping mechanism if the plan is to protect players who symbolize hope from accountability or merely judgement (in this case the youth). It keeps the hope alive.

And every experienced coach is probably part of the conversation in personnel moves. That doesn't mean they have final say. Thibs didn't get what he wanted when they let Bullock go and when they signed Fournier. You think Reddish was a Thibs move? Rose and Noel were definitely moves that Thibs lobbied for. It's a mixed bag.

I don't expect the Knicks to make the playoffs again in the next few years either. I think it's a talent issue moreso than a coaching issue. Poppovich missed the playoffs and Doc Rivers made the playoffs this season. Talent is the overwhelming factor in the regular season.

Like I said, I'm not going to argue about the Knicks. You and I are on completely different spectrums in terms of where we stand and we'll never agree.

Calling Thibodeau not playing young players a "narrative" is funny to me. If it was a narrative amongst Knicks fans only it would be nothing. When fans of the Bulls and Wolves and the media are all in agreement then it's no longer a narrative.

The fact is that Grimes was not going to play without an injury to Rose. If Elfrid Payton was still on the roster he would still be playing. We've discussed this before when you kept insisting that Thibs would play young players over veterans to win when he hasn't proven that at any of his previous stops.

You can also keep insisting Thibodeau has little say in personnel matters but this simply is not true. The Cam Reddish trade is a blip on the radar. The majority of the roster is Thibs-approved. Which is why it's a bad roster. Nobody thinks Thibodeau is a great GM. He certainly proved that in Minnesota.

Pointing out the reality has nothing to do with "keeping hope alive". The Knicks have no hope at all. This has nothing to do with false hope and everything to do with the fact that Tom Thibodeau is not a good coach for the modern NBA - regardless of one fluke season - and that his vets over young players to win at all costs and end up with the 12th pick is the mentality that has plagued the franchise for a better part of the last 20 years. By refusing to building through the draft we will continue to be an awful franchise. Thibodeau is going to be 65 years old. He's not going to be here to develop guys in the G League or play through mistakes. He didn't do that 10 years ago and he certainly isn't going to waste his final years coaching trying to develop young players for a bad team. Which is why he'll be fired after this coming season.

How can you say you're not going to argue about the Knicks when you literally quoted me to argue about the Knicks?

Why quote me if you don't want to argue

Big picture I don't think our positions are actually that different. But I doubt that you (even want to) understand what my position actually is for you to say that we stand on opposite ends of the spectrum.

You didn't acknowledge the Bullock/Fournier decisions that Thibs was reportedly against. That's an additional two moves on top of the Reddish trade that Thibodeau presumably didn't sign off on. I think it is obvious and it has been reported that his voice is heard, but that doesn't mean he has final say.

I don't care what fans of the Bulls and TImberwolves say about Thibs - I can judge his work on the Knicks for myself. Those are subjective opinions that also fit into grander narratives. But Wiggins and Towns played a ton of minutes and got their first taste of playoff basketball under Thibs, largely thanks to Jimmy Butler. Thibs brought Jimmy along slowly in Chicago, but that didn't prevent him from becoming a star under Thibs.

Which golden talents did Thibodeau waste in Chicago and Minnesota? Marquis Teague? Erik Murphy? Tony Snell? Cameron Bairstow? James Johnson? Kris Dunn? Josh Okogie? Keita Bates-Diop? Or maybe these fans were desperate too and had disproportionate expectations about these players as well?

RJ played. Mitch played. IQ played. Grimes was a late first-round draft pick and earned a spot in the rotation after Rose got hurt - he played. It's not unusual for late first rounders to start the season on the bench for a veteran team that is expected to compete. You don't like those veterans? Blame Leon. Obi didn't play much because he is stuck behind Randle and because Thibs doesn't like to play without a rim protector - something I have consistently criticized him for. The Knicks already had a logjam on the wings when they traded for Cam and it's the FO's failure for failing to address it before the trade deadline.

[8516knicks]

We had a chance to sign Udoka. Thats the sad part

not if you ask Udoka!

[HarthorneWingo]

Spoiler:

[Gravy]

Steve Kerr admitted he would have been fired if Phil hired him to coach here. Kerr would not have turned Frank and Courtney Lee into Steph and Klay just like Udoka is not tuning RJ into Tatum. Knicks didnt even have a pg this year and there's 3 players in the starting lineup that cant shoot. I'd fix those problems first before asking any coach to perform miracles to get them to win

I do think Udoka would've been a pretty good hire. He seems to be putting his players in better positions. I'd imagine he'd make things easier for Randle like he has with Tatum. Tatum has grown into a legit playmaker under Udoka and their offense is not really ISO heavy like it used to be.

Agreed with the Kerr point though. I was pretty bummed at first when we didn't hire him. But looking back on how everything played out, it would've been an epic fail. And I say this because not only would he have no talent to coach with, but Phil Jackson was essentially using guys like Fisher and Hornacek as his own puppets to coach his outdated triangle offense. So Kerr would have never gotten a chance to coach how he wanted anyways. Melo said in an interview last year that Phil didn't let Hornacek run the team how he wanted. It was a bad look for Phil

Maybe Udoka is better than Thibs.. hard to prove with different teams but Randle is already our playmaker and last year Thibs got him to be an allstar and all NBA. What would make it easier for Randle is if he had Jaylen Brown instead of RJ and guys like horford and Smart

[Gravy]

We had a chance to sign Udoka. Thats the sad part

not if you ask Udoka!

exactly. Pretty sure Udoka is not thinking he'd be in the finals if he was coaching the Knicks too.

[prophet_of_rage]

We’ve had guys like Fisher before, and that failed miserably because the FO was bad, and Fisher also had issues like trying to steal his players’ girlfriends or something.

Don’t think there’s a right strategy for this…we just need to get the right pieces first.

There is. Stop the nepotism hires.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[bleedblue3303]

Steve Kerr admitted he would have been fired if Phil hired him to coach here. Kerr would not have turned Frank and Courtney Lee into Steph and Klay just like Udoka is not tuning RJ into Tatum. Knicks didnt even have a pg this year and there's 3 players in the starting lineup that cant shoot. I'd fix those problems first before asking any coach to perform miracles to get them to win

I do think Udoka would've been a pretty good hire. He seems to be putting his players in better positions. I'd imagine he'd make things easier for Randle like he has with Tatum. Tatum has grown into a legit playmaker under Udoka and their offense is not really ISO heavy like it used to be.

Agreed with the Kerr point though. I was pretty bummed at first when we didn't hire him. But looking back on how everything played out, it would've been an epic fail. And I say this because not only would he have no talent to coach with, but Phil Jackson was essentially using guys like Fisher and Hornacek as his own puppets to coach his outdated triangle offense. So Kerr would have never gotten a chance to coach how he wanted anyways. Melo said in an interview last year that Phil didn't let Hornacek run the team how he wanted. It was a bad look for Phil

Maybe Udoka is better than Thibs.. hard to prove with different teams but Randle is already our playmaker and last year Thibs got him to be an allstar and all NBA. What would make it easier for Randle is if he had Jaylen Brown instead of RJ and guys like horford and Smart

It's a bit like the chicken or the egg theory.
You get Jaylen Brown by drafting him. And before anyone says the Celtics didn't tank. They didn't need too. They traded older vets for drafts picks. We continually try to add older vets, Brooklyn did the tanking for them. I keep saying it. As long as we win meaningless games every year post all star break this is what we will have.

OF THE WORST 15 teams in the NBA this season we had the best record for the last 10 games. Please explain how this makes sense. Before our winning streak on the west coast. We were 1 game ahead of Sacramento. They are getting Ivey or Sharpe. What are we looking at? Portland and Indiana both went 0-10 to end the season we went 7-3. it's maddening.

[Gravy]

I do think Udoka would've been a pretty good hire. He seems to be putting his players in better positions. I'd imagine he'd make things easier for Randle like he has with Tatum. Tatum has grown into a legit playmaker under Udoka and their offense is not really ISO heavy like it used to be.

Agreed with the Kerr point though. I was pretty bummed at first when we didn't hire him. But looking back on how everything played out, it would've been an epic fail. And I say this because not only would he have no talent to coach with, but Phil Jackson was essentially using guys like Fisher and Hornacek as his own puppets to coach his outdated triangle offense. So Kerr would have never gotten a chance to coach how he wanted anyways. Melo said in an interview last year that Phil didn't let Hornacek run the team how he wanted. It was a bad look for Phil

Maybe Udoka is better than Thibs.. hard to prove with different teams but Randle is already our playmaker and last year Thibs got him to be an allstar and all NBA. What would make it easier for Randle is if he had Jaylen Brown instead of RJ and guys like horford and Smart

It's a bit like the chicken or the egg theory.
You get Jaylen Brown by drafting him. And before anyone says the Celtics didn't tank. They didn't need too. They traded older vets for drafts picks. We continually try to add older vets, Brooklyn did the tanking for them. I keep saying it. As long as we win meaningless games every year post all star break this is what we will have.

OF THE WORST 15 teams in the NBA this season we had the best record for the last 10 games. Please explain how this makes sense. Before our winning streak on the west coast. We were 1 game ahead of Sacramento. They are getting Ivey or Sharpe. What are we looking at? Portland and Indiana both went 0-10 to end the season we went 7-3. it's maddening.

If you want to just lose games then we should get Fizdale back and resign Knox, Frank, Dotson, Kornet and start them for the next 5 years.

Or the Knicks can pick the good players in the draft instead of Frank and Knox, and Obi who rarely plays. Lots of teams win meaningless games and they still draft well or move up in the draft, thats not an excuse.

[bleedblue3303]

Maybe Udoka is better than Thibs.. hard to prove with different teams but Randle is already our playmaker and last year Thibs got him to be an allstar and all NBA. What would make it easier for Randle is if he had Jaylen Brown instead of RJ and guys like horford and Smart

It's a bit like the chicken or the egg theory.
You get Jaylen Brown by drafting him. And before anyone says the Celtics didn't tank. They didn't need too. They traded older vets for drafts picks. We continually try to add older vets, Brooklyn did the tanking for them. I keep saying it. As long as we win meaningless games every year post all star break this is what we will have.

OF THE WORST 15 teams in the NBA this season we had the best record for the last 10 games. Please explain how this makes sense. Before our winning streak on the west coast. We were 1 game ahead of Sacramento. They are getting Ivey or Sharpe. What are we looking at? Portland and Indiana both went 0-10 to end the season we went 7-3. it's maddening.

If you want to just lose games then we should get Fizdale back and resign Knox, Frank, Dotson, Kornet and start them for the next 5 years.

Or the Knicks can pick the good players in the draft instead of Frank and Knox, and Obi who rarely plays. Lots of teams win meaningless games and they still draft well or move up in the draft, thats not an excuse.

Actually, that's not what i want us to do at all. I want us to recognize when a season is lost. You have to make decisions post all star break. It was obvious this was a lost season. Post allstar we play for draft picks. But you can start every season with an intention to win.

And going back to the Jaylen Brown point . You will never get a Jaylen Brown without grossly overpaying unless you draft one. So how else do you propose we do that.

[Gravy]

It's a bit like the chicken or the egg theory.
You get Jaylen Brown by drafting him. And before anyone says the Celtics didn't tank. They didn't need too. They traded older vets for drafts picks. We continually try to add older vets, Brooklyn did the tanking for them. I keep saying it. As long as we win meaningless games every year post all star break this is what we will have.

OF THE WORST 15 teams in the NBA this season we had the best record for the last 10 games. Please explain how this makes sense. Before our winning streak on the west coast. We were 1 game ahead of Sacramento. They are getting Ivey or Sharpe. What are we looking at? Portland and Indiana both went 0-10 to end the season we went 7-3. it's maddening.

If you want to just lose games then we should get Fizdale back and resign Knox, Frank, Dotson, Kornet and start them for the next 5 years.

Or the Knicks can pick the good players in the draft instead of Frank and Knox, and Obi who rarely plays. Lots of teams win meaningless games and they still draft well or move up in the draft, thats not an excuse.

Actually, that's not what i want us to do at all. I want us to recognize when a season is lost. You have to make decisions post all star break. It was obvious this was a lost season. Post allstar we play for draft picks. But you can start every season with an intention to win.

And going back to the Jaylen Brown point . You will never get a Jaylen Brown without grossly overpaying unless you draft one. So how else do you propose we do that.

Knicks coaches are never going to tell their players to lose games and the players are not going to try to lose games. Blame at IQ RJ and Obi for trying hard.

Once again.. we could have drafted SGA, Bridges, D Mitchell, Haliburton, Derozan etc.

[bleedblue3303]

Very true. But the roster towards the end of the season could have resembled our G league. But we were playing burks 30 plus minutes.
Has nothing to do with IQ playing hard