Mitchell Robinsons importance on our team, was it impactful or minimal?

[Ewing246]

The reason he doesn't get the ball is because he has no moves, and you can just foul him and it acts like a turnover. This isn't some Shaq level interior player, giving post touches to someone who shoots 49% from the line is essentially a turnover, if you think he's going to score just foul him and he'll miss more than 1/2 of all foul shots over the course of a game.

Dwight Howard in his prime wasn't even getting the ball like that and he might as well be Hakeem in the post if we're comparing him to Mitch. You all keep waiting for this skillfull player to appear, all while his freethrow percentage declines from year to year.

I know. I get it. I’m disappointed in Mitch’s decline in his FT shooting. I think that his foot injury prevented him from practicing last summer. I have to assume that the Knicks coaching staff is working on that with him as we speak. I mean, how can they not, right?

Why isn’t PPP stat convincing enough for you?

The foot injury has nothing to do with his decline in freethrow shooting after his rookie season and has steadily dropped since. We've seen what he does in his free time, he practices dribble moves and shoots threes that he will never take in a game. He has taken a total of 16 hooks....in his entire career, this is a player who is devoid of any real skill other than catching lobs, he doesn't even set solid picks.


PPP isn't convincing because it's on such a low volume, he's in the 17.8th percentile for post ups, he had 16 possessions with the play this year. If he were good at it they'd give him the ball in the post, Tom gives Taj some post ups here and there because he's good at it.

Tom does not call post-ups for Taj.

[Spree2Houston]

Williams plays with a better supporting cast who actually plays defense while also not needing Williams cover for them on every single play aka Mitch

[DaGawd]

Some of y’all who think Mitch is equal to Williams only watch the Knicks it feels like. Williams is almost guaranteed to swat your **** away or at minimum make you change your shot if you go right at him. He also doesn’t get baited in to stupid fouls nearly as much as Mitch does

[FlashFlood]

Mitch might have been the only plus defender in the starting lineup last year. Quite a few games hinged on his ability to finish at the rim and lock down the paint. IMO The Knicks' season bottoms out completely if the Knicks had to start Taj or Sims for 82 games.

Could Obi play center? Sure, Obi makes everyone look slow ESPECIALLY centers, but that would require roster changes, and a serious look at whether Thibodeau is the right coach.

[3toheadmelo]

Why do we have 2 Mitch threads?

Trying to bait sham

[SmoothLefty21]

I would love to see Mitch in good system with other plus-defenders like Boston's. I can only imagine how beastly he'd be in Time Lord's role. That being said, we stink and we can't maximize Mitch's potential so we might as well do him a favor and let him walk.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Until proven otherwise, We’ve seen enough of Mitch around the basket on offense to know that he has a decent touch within 3 feet. He’s hit bank shots and reverse layups where he’s shown a decent touch. I see no reason why he can’t hit a turnaround baby jump hook in the lane. It’s Thibs’s fault for refusing to pull that stick out of his own ass. Not Mitch’s.

The reason he doesn't get the ball is because he has no moves, and you can just foul him and it acts like a turnover. This isn't some Shaq level interior player, giving post touches to someone who shoots 49% from the line is essentially a turnover, if you think he's going to score just foul him and he'll miss more than 1/2 of all foul shots over the course of a game.

Dwight Howard in his prime wasn't even getting the ball like that and he might as well be Hakeem in the post if we're comparing him to Mitch. You all keep waiting for this skillfull player to appear, all while his freethrow percentage declines from year to year.

Fouling Mitch is nothing like a TO. His foul shooting sucks but he hits one out of two and will occasionally wind up with a 3 point play. The NYK scored 107 points per 100 possessions this year. That mean putting him on the line makes the Knicks less efficient than they normally are but not by a ton. It also could get the other team in foul trouble, gets them into the plenty faster, and means the Knicks will be able to get back and have the opponent go up against a set defense the next possession.

That's not how this works, if you're in a tight playoff series a player like Mitch is a complete negative in close games. If he's on the court in the 4th quarter of a game the opponents will do Hack-a Mitch, because it does in fact add up into a turnover and over time we would be scoring under a point per possession because he doesn't shoot 50% from the line. The math says to foul someone who shoots under 55% from the line, do it often and do it till their coach takes them out the game. I honestly don't get how some of you don't know this, you're not seeing it right now because nobody will play someone that poor from the line in a meaningful playoff game. When Ben Simmons plays with the Nets, you'll see it again.

For example, the last 3 seasons that DeAndre Jordan played in the playoffs with the Clippers he averaged 10 freethrows per game because whoever played them was fouling him relentlessly, he averaged 15ppg 14rpg, 11ppg and 16rpg, but was still a net negative for the team in those series. He is negative -133 for his career in the playoffs, explain to me how Mitch would be different when he's almost as bad at the line.

[KnixtapeH20]

Some of y’all who think Mitch is equal to Williams only watch the Knicks it feels like. Williams is almost guaranteed to swat your **** away or at minimum make you change your shot if you go right at him. He also doesn’t get baited in to stupid fouls nearly as much as Mitch does

What's good w the mitch hate b? you're forgetting and acting like Mitch wasn't 4th in blocks, averaged 1 steal per game, wasn't a BEAST on the boards (u can't be the best offensive rebounder and say he's not a demon on the boards just bc hw doesn't get gimme defensive rebounds)

Mitch altered damn near every shot and broke up lob attempts either tipping it or stealing it.. What it feels like is you're watching freshly new playoff of Williams and forgetting how dominant Mitch was on a bad Knicks team where his supporting defensive cast is terrible.

Mitch was never in foul trouble so how was he getting baited into stupid fouls this season?

So u don't think Mitch would post even better numbers if he was on Boston? U can't be serious.... One guy plays with good point guards/distributors and some of the best defenders while the other doesn't even have a point guard and some of the worst defenders.

[DaGawd]

Some of y’all who think Mitch is equal to Williams only watch the Knicks it feels like. Williams is almost guaranteed to swat your **** away or at minimum make you change your shot if you go right at him. He also doesn’t get baited in to stupid fouls nearly as much as Mitch does

What's good w the mitch hate b? you're forgetting and acting like Mitch wasn't 4th in blocks, averaged 1 steal per game, wasn't a BEAST on the boards (u can't be the best offensive rebounder and say he's not a demon on the boards just bc hw doesn't get gimme defensive rebounds)

Mitch altered damn near every shot and broke up lob attempts either tipping it or stealing it.. What it feels like is you're watching freshly new playoff of Williams and forgetting how dominant Mitch was on a bad Knicks team where his supporting defensive cast is terrible.

Mitch was never in foul trouble so how was he getting baited into stupid fouls this season?

I don’t hate Mitch. I’m just not a blind Homer about his abilities. He’s not that valuable to me. You don’t remember that incredibly dumb foul at the end of the Nets game that cost us the victory? He does that a lot. He can be exploited

[KnixtapeH20]

Some of y’all who think Mitch is equal to Williams only watch the Knicks it feels like. Williams is almost guaranteed to swat your **** away or at minimum make you change your shot if you go right at him. He also doesn’t get baited in to stupid fouls nearly as much as Mitch does

What's good w the mitch hate b? you're forgetting and acting like Mitch wasn't 4th in blocks, averaged 1 steal per game, wasn't a BEAST on the boards (u can't be the best offensive rebounder and say he's not a demon on the boards just bc hw doesn't get gimme defensive rebounds)

Mitch altered damn near every shot and broke up lob attempts either tipping it or stealing it.. What it feels like is you're watching freshly new playoff of Williams and forgetting how dominant Mitch was on a bad Knicks team where his supporting defensive cast is terrible.

Mitch was never in foul trouble so how was he getting baited into stupid fouls this season?

I don’t hate Mitch. I’m just not a blind Homer about his abilities. He’s not that valuable to me. You don’t remember that incredibly dumb foul at the end of the Nets game that cost us the victory? He does that a lot. He can be exploited

Lol it was one game bro Mitch was just helping the tank. He thought this organization wasn't brain dead stupid and was trying for the lotto

You're being way too critical of Mitch and praising a guy bc he shoots better from the foul line snd might do a few things somewhat better. Like I said they're very similar players. Mitch needs to fix his free throws and continue to work on his game. Let's see what happens

[DaGawd]

What's good w the mitch hate b? you're forgetting and acting like Mitch wasn't 4th in blocks, averaged 1 steal per game, wasn't a BEAST on the boards (u can't be the best offensive rebounder and say he's not a demon on the boards just bc hw doesn't get gimme defensive rebounds)

Mitch altered damn near every shot and broke up lob attempts either tipping it or stealing it.. What it feels like is you're watching freshly new playoff of Williams and forgetting how dominant Mitch was on a bad Knicks team where his supporting defensive cast is terrible.

Mitch was never in foul trouble so how was he getting baited into stupid fouls this season?

I don’t hate Mitch. I’m just not a blind Homer about his abilities. He’s not that valuable to me. You don’t remember that incredibly dumb foul at the end of the Nets game that cost us the victory? He does that a lot. He can be exploited

Lol it was one game bro Mitch was just helping the tank. He thought this organization wasn't brain dead stupid and was trying for the lotto

You're being way too critical of Mitch and praising a guy bc he shoots better from the foul line snd might do a few things somewhat better. Like I said they're very similar players. Mitch needs to fix his free throws and continue to work on his game. Let's see what happens

Yeah don’t confuse my criticism for hate just not a huge fan of Mitch any more he’s fallen off for me

[KnixtapeH20]

I don’t hate Mitch. I’m just not a blind Homer about his abilities. He’s not that valuable to me. You don’t remember that incredibly dumb foul at the end of the Nets game that cost us the victory? He does that a lot. He can be exploited

Lol it was one game bro Mitch was just helping the tank. He thought this organization wasn't brain dead stupid and was trying for the lotto

You're being way too critical of Mitch and praising a guy bc he shoots better from the foul line snd might do a few things somewhat better. Like I said they're very similar players. Mitch needs to fix his free throws and continue to work on his game. Let's see what happens

Yeah don’t confuse my criticism for hate just not a huge fan of Mitch any more he’s fallen off for me

I get it but that's the sense I get from s lot of Mitchs critics. He hasn't improved across the board like we would of hoped. Defensively he's become an anchor, one of the best shot blockers, beast on the glass, lob threat... He can't score on his own but he shouldn't have to. He's still a walking double double and has a knack for steals.

He's smarter than ppl give him credit for.

[KnixtapeH20]

It all depends what u want in a center.

Your list is mostly guys that are offensive players. They don't hold a candle to Mitch defensively or on the boards. U csnt look at box scores and critique Mitchell Robinson. It's either you watch him play and see for yourself how dominant he is in his matchups as a defensive anchor, lob threat and steals or u judge him off the stat sheet which is pointless.

Idk how many of yall watch Mitch play night in night out id guess not many and why would u our team is awful but my point stands.

What Mitch gives you he's great at and he's still only 23 years old playing for a coach that gives him ZERO freedom. He calls for the ball constantly, has great hands, yet they never find him. He's a horrendous foul shooter yes. But there's more to hid game...


Mitch on the Warriors wouldn't even be fair that's how dominant they would be with that addition. Mitch and Dray would be silly. Now if u wanns argue his foul shooting that's a legit gripe.

Yep I'm surprised to see so many people so low on Mitch Robinson. He finishes 75% of his shots and is an absolutely elite shot blocker. He has some stagnant parts to his game and I'm not sure how smart he is. But Thibs gives him nothing. Man is averaging 8ppg on 4.8 fga per game. Not a typo! Less than 5 shots per game. I'm not sure I've ever seen a starter on such a short leash.

He's a classic rim runner trapped on a team that has bad spacing and even worse passing. A play finisher stranded without play initiators. Mitch Robinson could be an absolute steal for someone this year, and I see a lot of rosters where he has the potential to be the missing piece (Charlotte, Toronto, and Dallas are intriguing) if New York can't retain.

Wanna add this to our conversation here if that's cool. Very well said

[Ewing246]

The reason he doesn't get the ball is because he has no moves, and you can just foul him and it acts like a turnover. This isn't some Shaq level interior player, giving post touches to someone who shoots 49% from the line is essentially a turnover, if you think he's going to score just foul him and he'll miss more than 1/2 of all foul shots over the course of a game.

Dwight Howard in his prime wasn't even getting the ball like that and he might as well be Hakeem in the post if we're comparing him to Mitch. You all keep waiting for this skillfull player to appear, all while his freethrow percentage declines from year to year.

Fouling Mitch is nothing like a TO. His foul shooting sucks but he hits one out of two and will occasionally wind up with a 3 point play. The NYK scored 107 points per 100 possessions this year. That mean putting him on the line makes the Knicks less efficient than they normally are but not by a ton. It also could get the other team in foul trouble, gets them into the plenty faster, and means the Knicks will be able to get back and have the opponent go up against a set defense the next possession.

That's not how this works, if you're in a tight playoff series a player like Mitch is a complete negative in close games. If he's on the court in the 4th quarter of a game the opponents will do Hack-a Mitch, because it does in fact add up into a turnover and over time we would be scoring under a point per possession because he doesn't shoot 50% from the line. The math says to foul someone who shoots under 55% from the line, do it often and do it till their coach takes them out the game. I honestly don't get how some of you don't know this, you're not seeing it right now because nobody will play someone that poor from the line in a meaningful playoff game. When Ben Simmons plays with the Nets, you'll see it again.

For example, the last 3 seasons that DeAndre Jordan played in the playoffs with the Clippers he averaged 10 freethrows per game because whoever played them was fouling him relentlessly, he averaged 15ppg 14rpg, 11ppg and 16rpg, but was still a net negative for the team in those series. He is negative -133 for his career in the playoffs, explain to me how Mitch would be different when he's almost as bad at the line.

Over time scoring just under a point a possession does not add up to a turnover (0 points per possession plus transition opportunities for the other team). That is definitely not how things work.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Fouling Mitch is nothing like a TO. His foul shooting sucks but he hits one out of two and will occasionally wind up with a 3 point play. The NYK scored 107 points per 100 possessions this year. That mean putting him on the line makes the Knicks less efficient than they normally are but not by a ton. It also could get the other team in foul trouble, gets them into the plenty faster, and means the Knicks will be able to get back and have the opponent go up against a set defense the next possession.

That's not how this works, if you're in a tight playoff series a player like Mitch is a complete negative in close games. If he's on the court in the 4th quarter of a game the opponents will do Hack-a Mitch, because it does in fact add up into a turnover and over time we would be scoring under a point per possession because he doesn't shoot 50% from the line. The math says to foul someone who shoots under 55% from the line, do it often and do it till their coach takes them out the game. I honestly don't get how some of you don't know this, you're not seeing it right now because nobody will play someone that poor from the line in a meaningful playoff game. When Ben Simmons plays with the Nets, you'll see it again.

For example, the last 3 seasons that DeAndre Jordan played in the playoffs with the Clippers he averaged 10 freethrows per game because whoever played them was fouling him relentlessly, he averaged 15ppg 14rpg, 11ppg and 16rpg, but was still a net negative for the team in those series. He is negative -133 for his career in the playoffs, explain to me how Mitch would be different when he's almost as bad at the line.

Over time scoring just under a point a possession does not add up to a turnover (0 points per possession plus transition opportunities for the other team). That is definitely not how things work.

In terms of strategy that's exactly how it works and has been working for a decade now, I don't understand, have you not seen this in action? Is it going to be different this time with Mitch than it was with Drummond and Jordan? Is it all a coincidence that really bad freethrow shooters seem to go to the line more in the playoffs, Jordan over a 3 year stretch went to the line 10 times per game, Drummond went 7 times per game. Those are wasted possessions, and we have years and years of data showing it, but it's going to be different with Mitch.....because?

[iLLmatic860]

Some of y’all who think Mitch is equal to Williams only watch the Knicks it feels like. Williams is almost guaranteed to swat your **** away or at minimum make you change your shot if you go right at him. He also doesn’t get baited in to stupid fouls nearly as much as Mitch does

He also has that dog in him. Mitch a goofy mf lol

[cupcakesnake]

I think with Mitch, his appeal is obvious: absolute 99th percentile elite length paired with good mobility. Bothering shots and finishing plays is easy for him.

His weaknesses are obvious too: he's not smart, he hasn't improved his skills so he can't pass or shoot. He's not crazy strong either.

Basically, put in him in a pick & roll offense with decent spacing or he's useless on offense. Because the Knicks don't have the personnel to do that, Mitch is just in the way a lot of offense as Randle does whatever Randle do and RJ and Fournier wait for their turn to do theirs. I don't think Robinson is a fit in New York at all. I'd love to see him paired with Luka. Or in Toronto with FVV and Siakam, defending the backline and pressuring the rim some.

Originally I thought the move should be surround an RJ/Mitch pick & roll attack with good shooting and defense and build around the two best prospects. Knicks have done a lot of crazy **** since they got Thibs and now I'm not sure that plan is still possible with Randle, Fournier, Walker's contract, Rose... just a classic Thibs burnout team.

[HarthorneWingo]

Why do we have 2 Mitch threads?

Trying to bait sham

Any word on him?

[Chanel Bomber]

I think with Mitch, his appeal is obvious: absolute 99th percentile elite length paired with good mobility. Bothering shots and finishing plays is easy for him.

His weaknesses are obvious too: he's not smart, he hasn't improved his skills so he can't pass or shoot. He's not crazy strong either.

Basically, put in him in a pick & roll offense with decent spacing or he's useless on offense. Because the Knicks don't have the personnel to do that, Mitch is just in the way a lot of offense as Randle does whatever Randle do and RJ and Fournier wait for their turn to do theirs. I don't think Robinson is a fit in New York at all. I'd love to see him paired with Luka. Or in Toronto with FVV and Siakam, defending the backline and pressuring the rim some.

Originally I thought the move should be surround an RJ/Mitch pick & roll attack with good shooting and defense and build around the two best prospects. Knicks have done a lot of crazy **** since they got Thibs and now I'm not sure that plan is still possible with Randle, Fournier, Walker's contract, Rose... just a classic Thibs burnout team.

You make some good points but,

If Robinson can fit with a proven winner like Luka, and Randle-RJ-Fournier don't fit with anybody, maybe Mitch isn't the problem and maybe parting with these "core guys" should be the organizational priority.

[Chanel Bomber]

Mitch isn't Rob Williams but he's not DAJ either (a low-key selfish player who demanded touches and largely padded his rebounding numbers). @ndos

DAJ would have been fine on the Clippers if he only cost 1/10th of the salary cap. He did not, and he was overvalued for his level of impact. Mitch's value as a role player is entirely dependent on his salary.

You have to pay Mitch in a way that you don't feel obliged to start him or play him against any match-up.