Detroit, Houston, Orlando, and OKC are already better than us

[TheDavinciCHODE]

So we getting the #1 pick in 2023 draft?

I doubt it . I think it'll take Houston and OKC 1 more season to get better than us. And there will be 2-3 teams out west that actively tank as well.

If we sign Brunson, we're going to sit round the 40ish win mark, and again pick ~10th.

I do think Detroit is already better than we are, but by better than us I mean these other 3 teams have a better outlook.

So they are not better than the Knicks? Thread title "already better" doesn't match with what you typed, which says they are not better but one day will be.

If you read the OP you'd see that I said they are either already better or will be very soon. I personally think a healthy Detroit and Magic team will be better than us. Also, OKC has a star lead guard that's better than anyone we have. If Chet is what he's billed to be, then OKC could easily be better than us this season.

At the very least, all of these teams are already in a better position moving forward than we are if not already better than us.

[Chanel Bomber]

So we getting the #1 pick in 2023 draft?

I doubt it . I think it'll take Houston and OKC 1 more season to get better than us. And there will be 2-3 teams out west that actively tank as well.

If we sign Brunson, we're going to sit round the 40ish win mark, and again pick ~10th.

I do think Detroit is already better than we are, but by better than us I mean these other 3 teams have a better outlook.

So they are not better than the Knicks? Thread title "already better" doesn't match with what you typed, which says they are not better but one day will be.

They're not better than the Knicks yet.

But they do have a higher upside, as the actual level of their talent should be higher (based on sheer probability) and remains an unknown, whereas we know the core of this Knicks team sucks.

I think the Knicks most talented young players are IQ and Obi. There is a remote possibility that one of them surpasses these high draft picks (Cade, Ivey, Green, Smith, Banchero, Suggs, Wagner, Chet, Giddey, Dieng), in which case the Knicks would find themselves in a better position than those teams.

It's unlikely, but it has happened before. It's too bad IQ and Obi don't fit the archetypes that our head coach dogmatically favors. This should limit their opportunities as starters.

[N Y K]

The path forward seems so obvious, doesn’t it?

[Kampuchea]

I doubt it . I think it'll take Houston and OKC 1 more season to get better than us. And there will be 2-3 teams out west that actively tank as well.

If we sign Brunson, we're going to sit round the 40ish win mark, and again pick ~10th.

I do think Detroit is already better than we are, but by better than us I mean these other 3 teams have a better outlook.

So they are not better than the Knicks? Thread title "already better" doesn't match with what you typed, which says they are not better but one day will be.

They're not better than the Knicks yet.

But they do have a higher upside, as the actual level of their talent should be higher (based on sheer probability) and remains an unknown, whereas we know the core of this Knicks team sucks.

I think the Knicks most talented young players are IQ and Obi. There is a remote possibility that one of them surpasses these high draft picks (Cade, Ivey, Green, Smith, Banchero, Suggs, Wagner, Chet, Giddey, Dieng), in which case the Knicks would find themselves in a better position than those teams.

It's unlikely, but it has happened before. It's too bad IQ and Obi don't fit the archetypes that our head coach dogmatically favors. This should limit their opportunities as starters.

Yeah, that’s true. They aren’t better now as stated by this thread title, they’ve no doubt been better at building for the future with higher upside.

I thought Thibs was an IQ guy? Didn’t check the minutes logs, thought people were unhappy with IQ seeming to have a longer leash

[Kampuchea]

The path forward seems so obvious, doesn’t it?

Brunson and load up ring chasers?

[Richard4444]

Its clear that this front office is banking on 2025 free agency

why, they didn't do sht the last 2 yrs when they had cap space and one of the best FA class in NBA history.

I keep reminding fans that the knicks started the 20/21 season with 30 mill in cap space and sat on it for 10 months until it was worthless, despite losing Mitch, and having payton as our starting pg

Mark my words, LEON will never sign a star FA, and will never ever have the balls to make a blockbuster trade for one...

It was a good strategy to not get weak vet FAs after we missed out on the better players available (Hayward/Grant). It's a more tanking approach, or at least pro-development of the young core kind of strategy.

But we overachieved somehow and got the 4th season.

[Chanel Bomber]

So they are not better than the Knicks? Thread title "already better" doesn't match with what you typed, which says they are not better but one day will be.

They're not better than the Knicks yet.

But they do have a higher upside, as the actual level of their talent should be higher (based on sheer probability) and remains an unknown, whereas we know the core of this Knicks team sucks.

I think the Knicks most talented young players are IQ and Obi. There is a remote possibility that one of them surpasses these high draft picks (Cade, Ivey, Green, Smith, Banchero, Suggs, Wagner, Chet, Giddey, Dieng), in which case the Knicks would find themselves in a better position than those teams.

It's unlikely, but it has happened before. It's too bad IQ and Obi don't fit the archetypes that our head coach dogmatically favors. This should limit their opportunities as starters.

Yeah, that’s true. They aren’t better now as stated by this thread title, they’ve no doubt been better at building for the future with higher upside.

I thought Thibs was an IQ guy? Didn’t check the minutes logs, thought people were unhappy with IQ seeming to have a longer leash

I think Thibs has a strange relationship with IQ.

On the one hand, he stuck with IQ through his worst stretch, which spanned months. He also holds him accountable (him and Obi) more than any player on the roster, which, ironically, might suggest he's more invested in his development than say our high-usage players.

On the other hand, he seems reluctant to give him a starter role, or to let him run the offense without another initiator on the floor.

I don't mind him bringing IQ along slowly. But it's been two seasons, and IQ has consistently demonstrated that he can be impactful. I wish Thibs trusted him more, instead of micromanaging him, as he has.

He's shown loyalty to IQ, but he's been reluctant to trust him. At least that's how I see it.

I think if IQ had been a high draft pick, the fans would have a completely different reaction to him. They didn't place their hopes onto him, so they are less invested in him, and quicker to criticize.

[Nazrmohamed]

Not liking this all or nothing Brunson nepotism bs strategy...feels like it's setting us back five years...

Yup. Totally need to bring back Elf and let him and Burks run the point.

Only if he brings back the epic Dreads Visor. Look at him all in the shade underneath there.
Much more effective player with it. "I couldn't see, he poked me in the eye, coach."

He better.

[sfernald]

The kicker is really Detroit of all teams getting Ivey and Duren. They will probably stomp all over Knicks in the Garden this year. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the play-in with that combo added to Cade!

[Synciere]

If there is any single piece of evidence to point out how big of a disgrace this franchise is, it's that teams that were the absolute dreck of the league the past 3 seasons are already either immediately better than us or have a much brighter next 3 year outlook than us.

Look at where teams like Houston, Detroit, and Orlando were just 2-3 years ago and now look...

DET: Cade, Ivey, Duren, Bey + cap space

Houston: Green, Smith, + more players with room to grow and more assets coming in from trading Gordon. And more importantly, ample playing time for everyone and probably a top 5 pick coming next year and legit shot at wenbanyama.

Orlando: Banchero, Suggs, Wagner, Issac + probably one more year of being bad so a top 5-6ish pick incoming and obviously cap space.

OKC: SGA (better than anyone we have), Chet, Giddy, Dort + tons of picks and now probably one more top 5-7 pick coming next year depending on what SGA does.

Detroit is some decent role players away from being flat out better than us and if even if they aren't, they will be very soon.

Everyone else has more top-end talent than we do and will almost certainly be better within the next two seasons.

Now look what we have...

Rj, Randle, Quick, Obi, Grimes, Fournier, Mitch (on a big contract), D Rose (rarely healthy). No cap space - actively trading assets to free it up, no playing time for young players, and no real direction and probably a backend lotto pick coming next season.

If Sacramento had just kept Haliburton they'd be in a better position than us right now. If they'd kept Haliburton and taken Ivy they'd already be better than us.

We are not only going to be one of the worst teams in the East next season, we don't have any elite prospects, cap space, or chances of getting a top 5 pick next season either.

the 4 worst teams in the league 3 years ago are already better than us and we've been trying to win.

If you're including cap space or future picks in your description of their cores, that probably means they aren't better than us. If your post includes Wenbanayama then you're not talking about 'already.' In spite of their recent draft picks, there's a healthy chance not one of those teams are better than us next year. By healthy I mean more than likely. Also, can we wait for free agency? All of those teams have flexibility to get better, but we're only a move or two away too.