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Athletic Article about the draft

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Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#1 » by KnicksGadfly » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:34 pm

Some interesting tidbits: https://theathletic.com/3382009/2022/06/24/knicks-nba-draft-trades/

The Knicks trading down or out of the first round altogether was always a possibility. Clearly, they weren’t enthralled with the options at No. 11, and the whole league has been talking for days about how aggressively they were attempting to open up cap room. Yes, they used the 11th pick to get off Walker, but it wasn’t a straight salary dump. They acquired three future first-rounders in the process. And there’s a realistic chance all three convey.

...

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Knicks reroute at least one of these picks as soon as this summer. They need to open up more cap room if they want to chase Brunson and could slap one of the firsts onto Noel to send him off without bringing any salary back, though it might be easier to deal Burks.

There are people in the league who believe they’re also stockpiling picks to use in a trade for a star, though I’m somewhat skeptical the ones the Knicks acquired Thursday are needle-moving in a megadeal. First-round picks are great, but they don’t necessarily get you All-NBA talent when they’re all likely to be outside the lottery.


Katz seems pretty upbeat about the Knicks' trade. I might have liked it if we kept all 3 and moved into a pure rebuilding direction, but we moved the one which was more likely to convey. It feels like a 9 million salary dump is not maximizing value, especially if we're aiming for just Brunson and need to trade more. I've heard a ton about how 2023 is a strong draft, and that has to be worth more.

They thought they were giving out tradeable contracts last offseason, the kinds they could piece together if they wanted to bring in a star. Instead, they can’t give them away. Yes, three first-rounders is dandy, but this all started because of regrettable signings.

Walker is on an expiring, $9 million salary, less than the midlevel exception, and it still took the No. 13 pick to deal him to Detroit. Teams haven’t been willing to take Noel without sweeteners, league sources have said, or Evan Fournier, who has two years and $37 million remaining on his deal. Many are wary of Julius Randle, whose four-year extension he signed last August and is worth at least $106 million, kicks in at the start of next season. Derrick Rose, meanwhile, has health questions and a $14.5 million 2022-23 salary, though I have no indication the Knicks are open to trading him.


I thought this was pretty self-explanatory, but some guys in this forum apparently disagree: Randle's value is really low now. Guess some of the anger is based on self-inflicted injuries created by the FO. From my end, I have to be candid and say that I liked many of their moves, but it feels like at this time, they're spending resources trying to fix their mistakes to double down on a bad plan.

Four months ago, the Knicks had an opportunity to open up space for this summer and passed on it, sources said. The team zeroed in on a three-way trade with the Lakers and Raptors that would have sent Burks, Noel and Cam Reddish out of town and would have brought back no long-term salary along with a draft pick, but the team chose not to do it. Had the Knicks done that deal, they would have entered the draft looking at about $25 million of room. They could have handled the Walker situation differently, or they could have traded him to free up even more space. Now, it may take trading additional draft picks to get $25 million below the cap.


Man, I would have traded away Cam in hindsight.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#2 » by Capn'O » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:37 pm

Cam Cam the Mystery Man. If he can't fix it, nobody can.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#3 » by ScienceOfLosing » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:54 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:Some interesting tidbits: https://theathletic.com/3382009/2022/06/24/knicks-nba-draft-trades/

Four months ago, the Knicks had an opportunity to open up space for this summer and passed on it, sources said. The team zeroed in on a three-way trade with the Lakers and Raptors that would have sent Burks, Noel and Cam Reddish out of town and would have brought back no long-term salary along with a draft pick, but the team chose not to do it. Had the Knicks done that deal, they would have entered the draft looking at about $25 million of room. They could have handled the Walker situation differently, or they could have traded him to free up even more space. Now, it may take trading additional draft picks to get $25 million below the cap.

Man, I would have traded away Cam in hindsight.


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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#4 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:11 pm

They traded a first rounder to get Cam, they traded a lottery pick to get off Kemba. This front office sucks, no amount of sugar coating or trying to excuse them will change the fact they had no real plan when they took over other than trying to get free agents cause the fat slob was an agent.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#5 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:13 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:Some interesting tidbits: https://theathletic.com/3382009/2022/06/24/knicks-nba-draft-trades/

The Knicks trading down or out of the first round altogether was always a possibility. Clearly, they weren’t enthralled with the options at No. 11, and the whole league has been talking for days about how aggressively they were attempting to open up cap room. Yes, they used the 11th pick to get off Walker, but it wasn’t a straight salary dump. They acquired three future first-rounders in the process. And there’s a realistic chance all three convey.

...

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Knicks reroute at least one of these picks as soon as this summer. They need to open up more cap room if they want to chase Brunson and could slap one of the firsts onto Noel to send him off without bringing any salary back, though it might be easier to deal Burks.

There are people in the league who believe they’re also stockpiling picks to use in a trade for a star, though I’m somewhat skeptical the ones the Knicks acquired Thursday are needle-moving in a megadeal. First-round picks are great, but they don’t necessarily get you All-NBA talent when they’re all likely to be outside the lottery.


Katz seems pretty upbeat about the Knicks' trade. I might have liked it if we kept all 3 and moved into a pure rebuilding direction, but we moved the one which was more likely to convey. It feels like a 9 million salary dump is not maximizing value, especially if we're aiming for just Brunson and need to trade more. I've heard a ton about how 2023 is a strong draft, and that has to be worth more.

They thought they were giving out tradeable contracts last offseason, the kinds they could piece together if they wanted to bring in a star. Instead, they can’t give them away. Yes, three first-rounders is dandy, but this all started because of regrettable signings.

Walker is on an expiring, $9 million salary, less than the midlevel exception, and it still took the No. 13 pick to deal him to Detroit. Teams haven’t been willing to take Noel without sweeteners, league sources have said, or Evan Fournier, who has two years and $37 million remaining on his deal. Many are wary of Julius Randle, whose four-year extension he signed last August and is worth at least $106 million, kicks in at the start of next season. Derrick Rose, meanwhile, has health questions and a $14.5 million 2022-23 salary, though I have no indication the Knicks are open to trading him.


I thought this was pretty self-explanatory, but some guys in this forum apparently disagree: Randle's value is really low now. Guess some of the anger is based on self-inflicted injuries created by the FO. From my end, I have to be candid and say that I liked many of their moves, but it feels like at this time, they're spending resources trying to fix their mistakes to double down on a bad plan.

Four months ago, the Knicks had an opportunity to open up space for this summer and passed on it, sources said. The team zeroed in on a three-way trade with the Lakers and Raptors that would have sent Burks, Noel and Cam Reddish out of town and would have brought back no long-term salary along with a draft pick, but the team chose not to do it. Had the Knicks done that deal, they would have entered the draft looking at about $25 million of room. They could have handled the Walker situation differently, or they could have traded him to free up even more space. Now, it may take trading additional draft picks to get $25 million below the cap.


Man, I would have traded away Cam in hindsight.


This was the same guy that said that all those overpaid and unnecessary contracts they gave to their own free agents and Fournier was reasonable contracts that should not be difficult to move wasn't he?
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#6 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:13 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:Some interesting tidbits: https://theathletic.com/3382009/2022/06/24/knicks-nba-draft-trades/

The Knicks trading down or out of the first round altogether was always a possibility. Clearly, they weren’t enthralled with the options at No. 11, and the whole league has been talking for days about how aggressively they were attempting to open up cap room. Yes, they used the 11th pick to get off Walker, but it wasn’t a straight salary dump. They acquired three future first-rounders in the process. And there’s a realistic chance all three convey.

...

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Knicks reroute at least one of these picks as soon as this summer. They need to open up more cap room if they want to chase Brunson and could slap one of the firsts onto Noel to send him off without bringing any salary back, though it might be easier to deal Burks.

There are people in the league who believe they’re also stockpiling picks to use in a trade for a star, though I’m somewhat skeptical the ones the Knicks acquired Thursday are needle-moving in a megadeal. First-round picks are great, but they don’t necessarily get you All-NBA talent when they’re all likely to be outside the lottery.


Katz seems pretty upbeat about the Knicks' trade. I might have liked it if we kept all 3 and moved into a pure rebuilding direction, but we moved the one which was more likely to convey. It feels like a 9 million salary dump is not maximizing value, especially if we're aiming for just Brunson and need to trade more. I've heard a ton about how 2023 is a strong draft, and that has to be worth more.

They thought they were giving out tradeable contracts last offseason, the kinds they could piece together if they wanted to bring in a star. Instead, they can’t give them away. Yes, three first-rounders is dandy, but this all started because of regrettable signings.

Walker is on an expiring, $9 million salary, less than the midlevel exception, and it still took the No. 13 pick to deal him to Detroit. Teams haven’t been willing to take Noel without sweeteners, league sources have said, or Evan Fournier, who has two years and $37 million remaining on his deal. Many are wary of Julius Randle, whose four-year extension he signed last August and is worth at least $106 million, kicks in at the start of next season. Derrick Rose, meanwhile, has health questions and a $14.5 million 2022-23 salary, though I have no indication the Knicks are open to trading him.


I thought this was pretty self-explanatory, but some guys in this forum apparently disagree: Randle's value is really low now. Guess some of the anger is based on self-inflicted injuries created by the FO. From my end, I have to be candid and say that I liked many of their moves, but it feels like at this time, they're spending resources trying to fix their mistakes to double down on a bad plan.

Four months ago, the Knicks had an opportunity to open up space for this summer and passed on it, sources said. The team zeroed in on a three-way trade with the Lakers and Raptors that would have sent Burks, Noel and Cam Reddish out of town and would have brought back no long-term salary along with a draft pick, but the team chose not to do it. Had the Knicks done that deal, they would have entered the draft looking at about $25 million of room. They could have handled the Walker situation differently, or they could have traded him to free up even more space. Now, it may take trading additional draft picks to get $25 million below the cap.


Man, I would have traded away Cam in hindsight.


This was the same guy that said that all those overpaid and unnecessary contracts they gave to their own free agents and Fournier was reasonable contracts that should not be difficult to move wasn't he?
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#7 » by WargamesX » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:17 pm

I don’t trust any of Knicks Sports media to provide any insight into what they plan to do. Maybe Berman, but definitely not Fred Katz
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#8 » by DOT » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:22 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:They traded a first rounder to get Cam, they traded a lottery pick to get off Kemba. This front office sucks, no amount of sugar coating or trying to excuse them will change the fact they had no real plan when they took over other than trying to get free agents cause the fat slob was an agent.

Traded a 1st for Cam who’s in all likelihood our 11th man

Either him or Grimes, both aren’t in the rotation until Rose gets injured and Quick takes over as backup PG.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#9 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:26 pm

One thing is absolutely clear. This franchise has ZERO respect for the draft. It has been this way for decades and it ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE JAMES DOLAN!! They went from trading away picks like candy to hoarding them. Not because they want to draft a star but...because they want to trade them away like candy!!! You can't make this shyt up. This is the worst run team in the league.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#10 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:26 pm

DOT wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:They traded a first rounder to get Cam, they traded a lottery pick to get off Kemba. This front office sucks, no amount of sugar coating or trying to excuse them will change the fact they had no real plan when they took over other than trying to get free agents cause the fat slob was an agent.

Traded a 1st for Cam who’s in all likelihood our 11th man

Either him or Grimes, both aren’t in the rotation until Rose gets injured and Quick takes over as backup PG.



I hate how Thibs is basically holding the team hostage and forcing even worse moves, because "Thibs wont play them" cool, find a younger coach who actually will.


The fact Kuminga played almost as much per game as Obi is such an indictment of Thibs, any other team would be looking for a new coach right now, but instead he's CAA and best buds with the clown show running the team.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#11 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:27 pm

That is horrible that we passed on a Noel/Burks deal. Even worse we didn’t try hard enough to move Randle and are stuck with him. Throw in the draft…and direction. Team is a mess.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#12 » by DOT » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:32 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
DOT wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:They traded a first rounder to get Cam, they traded a lottery pick to get off Kemba. This front office sucks, no amount of sugar coating or trying to excuse them will change the fact they had no real plan when they took over other than trying to get free agents cause the fat slob was an agent.

Traded a 1st for Cam who’s in all likelihood our 11th man

Either him or Grimes, both aren’t in the rotation until Rose gets injured and Quick takes over as backup PG.



I hate how Thibs is basically holding the team hostage and forcing even worse moves, because "Thibs wont play them" cool, find a younger coach who actually will.


The fact Kuminga played almost as much per game as Obi is such an indictment of Thibs, any other team would be looking for a new coach right now, but instead he's CAA and best buds with the clown show running the team.

Basically every defense of last night is “well, the FO is too incompetent to make the right draft pick or develop them, so we shouldn’t draft anyone”
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#13 » by KnicksGadfly » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:39 pm

moocow007 wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:Some interesting tidbits: https://theathletic.com/3382009/2022/06/24/knicks-nba-draft-trades/

The Knicks trading down or out of the first round altogether was always a possibility. Clearly, they weren’t enthralled with the options at No. 11, and the whole league has been talking for days about how aggressively they were attempting to open up cap room. Yes, they used the 11th pick to get off Walker, but it wasn’t a straight salary dump. They acquired three future first-rounders in the process. And there’s a realistic chance all three convey.

...

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Knicks reroute at least one of these picks as soon as this summer. They need to open up more cap room if they want to chase Brunson and could slap one of the firsts onto Noel to send him off without bringing any salary back, though it might be easier to deal Burks.

There are people in the league who believe they’re also stockpiling picks to use in a trade for a star, though I’m somewhat skeptical the ones the Knicks acquired Thursday are needle-moving in a megadeal. First-round picks are great, but they don’t necessarily get you All-NBA talent when they’re all likely to be outside the lottery.


Katz seems pretty upbeat about the Knicks' trade. I might have liked it if we kept all 3 and moved into a pure rebuilding direction, but we moved the one which was more likely to convey. It feels like a 9 million salary dump is not maximizing value, especially if we're aiming for just Brunson and need to trade more. I've heard a ton about how 2023 is a strong draft, and that has to be worth more.

They thought they were giving out tradeable contracts last offseason, the kinds they could piece together if they wanted to bring in a star. Instead, they can’t give them away. Yes, three first-rounders is dandy, but this all started because of regrettable signings.

Walker is on an expiring, $9 million salary, less than the midlevel exception, and it still took the No. 13 pick to deal him to Detroit. Teams haven’t been willing to take Noel without sweeteners, league sources have said, or Evan Fournier, who has two years and $37 million remaining on his deal. Many are wary of Julius Randle, whose four-year extension he signed last August and is worth at least $106 million, kicks in at the start of next season. Derrick Rose, meanwhile, has health questions and a $14.5 million 2022-23 salary, though I have no indication the Knicks are open to trading him.


I thought this was pretty self-explanatory, but some guys in this forum apparently disagree: Randle's value is really low now. Guess some of the anger is based on self-inflicted injuries created by the FO. From my end, I have to be candid and say that I liked many of their moves, but it feels like at this time, they're spending resources trying to fix their mistakes to double down on a bad plan.

Four months ago, the Knicks had an opportunity to open up space for this summer and passed on it, sources said. The team zeroed in on a three-way trade with the Lakers and Raptors that would have sent Burks, Noel and Cam Reddish out of town and would have brought back no long-term salary along with a draft pick, but the team chose not to do it. Had the Knicks done that deal, they would have entered the draft looking at about $25 million of room. They could have handled the Walker situation differently, or they could have traded him to free up even more space. Now, it may take trading additional draft picks to get $25 million below the cap.


Man, I would have traded away Cam in hindsight.


This was the same guy that said that all those overpaid and unnecessary contracts they gave to their own free agents and Fournier was reasonable contracts that should not be difficult to move wasn't he?


Not sure. Maybe. To be honest, I've had a very low opinion of the New York media ever since they refused to critically probe into the Leon Rose hiring. It was like he paid them off or something. It just felt weird they refused to look into the drawbacks of the hiring.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#14 » by Bob Ross » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:41 pm

F*ck this article and Fred Katz
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#15 » by duetta » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:43 pm

The Reddish trade is hard to explain away in hindsight. Never acquire a player with an asset if you can't make your tight-a$$ed coach play him.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#16 » by SelbyCobra » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:45 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:That is horrible that we passed on a Noel/Burks deal. Even worse we didn’t try hard enough to move Randle and are stuck with him. Throw in the draft…and direction. Team is a mess.


It's extra frustrating to me because they're actually doing a decent facsimile of asset accumulation, but it's not cut throat level AND they're getting high off their own supply because they need to attach picks to contracts due to their poor ability to sign the right players that actually play desirable basketball.

It's definitely not the worst regime to me, not even close really. But it's absolutely the most frustrating Knicks FO I can ever remember.

"I'm going to eat a totally clean, low fat, low sodium, plant-based diet to get right. I'm also going to eat a lot of McDonalds."

Like what? F*CKING FIX IT, IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU BASICALLY ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWERS AND ARE ALREADY DOING HALF THE WORK.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#17 » by 8516knicks » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:16 am

KnicksGadfly wrote:Some interesting tidbits: https://theathletic.com/3382009/2022/06/24/knicks-nba-draft-trades/

The Knicks trading down or out of the first round altogether was always a possibility. Clearly, they weren’t enthralled with the options at No. 11, and the whole league has been talking for days about how aggressively they were attempting to open up cap room. Yes, they used the 11th pick to get off Walker, but it wasn’t a straight salary dump. They acquired three future first-rounders in the process. And there’s a realistic chance all three convey.

...

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Knicks reroute at least one of these picks as soon as this summer. They need to open up more cap room if they want to chase Brunson and could slap one of the firsts onto Noel to send him off without bringing any salary back, though it might be easier to deal Burks.

There are people in the league who believe they’re also stockpiling picks to use in a trade for a star, though I’m somewhat skeptical the ones the Knicks acquired Thursday are needle-moving in a megadeal. First-round picks are great, but they don’t necessarily get you All-NBA talent when they’re all likely to be outside the lottery.


Katz seems pretty upbeat about the Knicks' trade. I might have liked it if we kept all 3 and moved into a pure rebuilding direction, but we moved the one which was more likely to convey. It feels like a 9 million salary dump is not maximizing value, especially if we're aiming for just Brunson and need to trade more. I've heard a ton about how 2023 is a strong draft, and that has to be worth more.

They thought they were giving out tradeable contracts last offseason, the kinds they could piece together if they wanted to bring in a star. Instead, they can’t give them away. Yes, three first-rounders is dandy, but this all started because of regrettable signings.

Walker is on an expiring, $9 million salary, less than the midlevel exception, and it still took the No. 13 pick to deal him to Detroit. Teams haven’t been willing to take Noel without sweeteners, league sources have said, or Evan Fournier, who has two years and $37 million remaining on his deal. Many are wary of Julius Randle, whose four-year extension he signed last August and is worth at least $106 million, kicks in at the start of next season. Derrick Rose, meanwhile, has health questions and a $14.5 million 2022-23 salary, though I have no indication the Knicks are open to trading him.


I thought this was pretty self-explanatory, but some guys in this forum apparently disagree: Randle's value is really low now. Guess some of the anger is based on self-inflicted injuries created by the FO. From my end, I have to be candid and say that I liked many of their moves, but it feels like at this time, they're spending resources trying to fix their mistakes to double down on a bad plan.

Four months ago, the Knicks had an opportunity to open up space for this summer and passed on it, sources said. The team zeroed in on a three-way trade with the Lakers and Raptors that would have sent Burks, Noel and Cam Reddish out of town and would have brought back no long-term salary along with a draft pick, but the team chose not to do it. Had the Knicks done that deal, they would have entered the draft looking at about $25 million of room. They could have handled the Walker situation differently, or they could have traded him to free up even more space. Now, it may take trading additional draft picks to get $25 million below the cap.


Man, I would have traded away Cam in hindsight.


Good insightful post.
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#18 » by Oscirus » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:34 pm

SelbyCobra wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:That is horrible that we passed on a Noel/Burks deal. Even worse we didn’t try hard enough to move Randle and are stuck with him. Throw in the draft…and direction. Team is a mess.


It's extra frustrating to me because they're actually doing a decent facsimile of asset accumulation, but it's not cut throat level AND they're getting high off their own supply because they need to attach picks to contracts due to their poor ability to sign the right players that actually play desirable basketball.

It's definitely not the worst regime to me, not even close really. But it's absolutely the most frustrating Knicks FO I can ever remember.

"I'm going to eat a totally clean, low fat, low sodium, plant-based diet to get right. I'm also going to eat a lot of McDonalds."

Like what? F*CKING FIX IT, IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU BASICALLY ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWERS AND ARE ALREADY DOING HALF THE WORK.

Its weird, like basically half of the front office is competent while the oter half ( the big picture half) legit sucks at their job. So we're picking up assets and even making trades that acquire more , but we're doing nothing with said assets
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#19 » by nykballa2k4 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:41 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:One thing is absolutely clear. This franchise has ZERO respect for the draft. It has been this way for decades and it ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE JAMES DOLAN!! They went from trading away picks like candy to hoarding them. Not because they want to draft a star but...because they want to trade them away like candy!!! You can't make this shyt up. This is the worst run team in the league.


Can you blame them? Lotto always screws us...
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Re: Athletic Article about the draft 

Post#20 » by Jalen Bluntson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:04 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:One thing is absolutely clear. This franchise has ZERO respect for the draft. It has been this way for decades and it ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE JAMES DOLAN!! They went from trading away picks like candy to hoarding them. Not because they want to draft a star but...because they want to trade them away like candy!!! You can't make this shyt up. This is the worst run team in the league.


Can you blame them? Lotto always screws us...


Yes...I can blame them and I DO blame them. It started with throwing away picks like candy for players that never panned out. Now they are piling up picks...to trade trade them too. Be it to dump lousy contacts they signed a year ago...or for future trades. They don't put any effort in trying to draft stars or develop and keep the kids they do draft. They have had what...2 top of the draft picks since Ewing? KP/RJ. They have been the worst team in the league over those years and NEVER committed to a proper rebuild. They only actively tanked ONCE during that time. They have drafted ZERO stars(so far) during that time. They keep chasing playoffs and failing miserably but, not bad enough to EVER draft a star.

No one wants to come in FA because there is usually a mess of a roster with no cap space and/or picks to build on and, a revolving door of coaches and GMs. We never have enough pieces to trade for a star and, NO ONE wants to force their way here either.

So the logical path during all of this losing would be to try and draft a star because the other options of getting one doesn't exist. They refuse to do so. The only constant has been the meddlesome owner.

They also don't seem to care about the PG position during all of those years as well.

Yes. I blame them.

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