OT: Debt Limit Sh*t

[HarthorneWingo]

Oh shyt! after serious deliberating they have each other permission to spend trillions of dollars that the middle class gets to pay back. I'm sure it was a difficult decision. They actually took more money from the poor to make it happen. Thank God for rich people scaring us into making them more money! Brilliant!

They hate on us behind our backs. We’re not in the club.

[Luv those Knicks]

So why wasn’t the debt ceiling raised in December ‘22 during the lane duck session? No one has even tried to answer this question.

It’s either incompetence or established Dems wanted to renegotiate the budget. Which one is it?

I didn't know, but I asked my friend google, who did know. They tried. It didn't happen.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/16/lame-duck-debt-ceiling-deal-00067123

They tried like Fournier trys to play D.

This is one of those posts I just don't get. Either you didn't read the article, or you just didn't care.

Do you think it's under Biden's control to get republican congressmen to vote for a bill, or guarantee that all 50 senate democrats pass it through reconciliation with Manchin able to manipulate things or just flat out vote against?

This isn't Tip O'Neil to Ronald Reagan when they'd work things out. Congress doesn't work like that anymore.

[Luv those Knicks]

So why wasn’t the debt ceiling raised in December ‘22 during the lane duck session? No one has even tried to answer this question.

It’s either incompetence or established Dems wanted to renegotiate the budget. Which one is it?

I didn't know, but I asked my friend google, who did know. They tried. It didn't happen.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/16/lame-duck-debt-ceiling-deal-00067123

So sorry my dear friend but they didn’t try it. In fact, they never brought it to a vote. Neither Manchin nor Sinema would’ve voted against it. But we should’ve at least tried.

Lets assume that's true (and I'm not sure it is), but lets say it is. How does Biden get it through the House first? Which republican congressmen is he going to get to vote yes?

[Clyde_Style]

I didn't know, but I asked my friend google, who did know. They tried. It didn't happen.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/16/lame-duck-debt-ceiling-deal-00067123

They tried like Fournier trys to play D.

This is one of those posts I just don't get. Either you didn't read the article, or you just didn't care.

Do you think it's under Biden's control to get republican congressmen to vote for a bill, or guarantee that all 50 senate democrats pass it through reconciliation with Manchin able to manipulate things or just flat out vote against?

This isn't Tip O'Neil to Ronald Reagan when they'd work things out. Congress doesn't work like that anymore.

Yes. A sitting president without the House and barely holding the Senate will get pressed for concessions. Still don't see anyone saying what Biden was supposed to extract as a gain from the GOP in his position. It was a matter of how much he had to give up, not how much he could get. That's just common sense.

[8516knicks]

I didn't know, but I asked my friend google, who did know. They tried. It didn't happen.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/16/lame-duck-debt-ceiling-deal-00067123

So sorry my dear friend but they didn’t try it. In fact, they never brought it to a vote. Neither Manchin nor Sinema would’ve voted against it. But we should’ve at least tried.

Lets assume that's true (and I'm not sure it is), but lets say it is. How does Biden get it through the House first? Which republican congressmen is he going to get to vote yes?

I think what WIngo is saying is during Lame Duck they could have just done it with Dem votes as they still had the house.

[HarthorneWingo]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[HarthorneWingo]

So sorry my dear friend but they didn’t try it. In fact, they never brought it to a vote. Neither Manchin nor Sinema would’ve voted against it. But we should’ve at least tried.

Lets assume that's true (and I'm not sure it is), but lets say it is. How does Biden get it through the House first? Which republican congressmen is he going to get to vote yes?

I think what WIngo is saying is during Lame Duck they could have just done it with Dem votes as they still had the house.

Exactlly!

[HarthorneWingo]

I didn't know, but I asked my friend google, who did know. They tried. It didn't happen.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/16/lame-duck-debt-ceiling-deal-00067123

They tried like Fournier trys to play D.

This is one of those posts I just don't get. Either you didn't read the article, or you just didn't care.

Do you think it's under Biden's control to get republican congressmen to vote for a bill, or guarantee that all 50 senate democrats pass it through reconciliation with Manchin able to manipulate things or just flat out vote against?

This isn't Tip O'Neil to Ronald Reagan when they'd work things out. Congress doesn't work like that anymore.

It was and is against Manchin's and Sinema's personal financial interests to vote against raising the debt ceiling. This is a House Freedom Caucus thing. No one else in their right mind wants to crash the economy. It's against big businesses financial interests to vote against passing the debt payments. I hate the term "ceiling" because it suggests an inaccurate notion that we're unilaterally increasing the budget as opposed to paying our bills.

[DOT]

Biden got 2 years of funding and avoided an economic speedbump. That's something.

I understand if you think it's not enough, but it's not like the Repubs got a ton. They got a tiny percentage of what they wanted.

Anyway, it's more opinion than fact at this point.

Nah, we're not pretending passing a continuing resolution is an accomplishment just for the sake of Joe Biden spin

I want to know what was GAINED. And this isn't a manner of opinion, the fact is that nothing was gained. Without increases pegged to inflation, this is effectively a two-year cut on some programs. That's it. It's a net loss, no matter how you spin it. Doing the bare minimum of averting a government shutdown and economic recession is just that. The bare minimum.

They could have passed a budget while Biden had the House and Senate. They didn't. They could have planned alternative strategies back when Biden was promising not to negotiate over the Budget. Now everyone wants to play semantics like "that's not what we meant...what could we have done" when they had months if not longer to come up with something.

I wish liberals would stop trying to piss on everything and pretending we should be grateful they didn't take a dump.

Liberals are more likely to be pissed. Moderate democrats are the ones saying this isn't too bad.

Moderate Dems are liberals

You're thinking of leftists

Leftist and Liberal gets conflated a lot because Republicans are so far right that liberals look like extreme leftists to them, but liberalism is a right wing ideology.

[j4remi]

Lets assume that's true (and I'm not sure it is), but lets say it is. How does Biden get it through the House first? Which republican congressmen is he going to get to vote yes?

I think what WIngo is saying is during Lame Duck they could have just done it with Dem votes as they still had the house.

Exactlly!

King Joe Manchin would never allow it, and nothing could be done to whip his vote because the Democrats only use threats against progressives.

[Luv those Knicks]

For all the wining and crying about how much Biden gave up, I thought Beau's take was interesting. He's wondering why the Republicans got so little.

And, he's to the left of me and he doesn't like the bill, but he points out that the Repubs didn't get much. He's a smart guy so I listen to him.

Watch on YouTube

[Luv those Knicks]

Liberals are more likely to be pissed. Moderate democrats are the ones saying this isn't too bad.

Moderate Dems are liberals

You're thinking of leftists

Leftist and Liberal gets conflated a lot because Republicans are so far right that liberals look like extreme leftists to them, but liberalism is a right wing ideology.

I don't have time to speak two languages just so I can keep up with which version of terminology different individuals are using.

[DOT]

Liberals are more likely to be pissed. Moderate democrats are the ones saying this isn't too bad.

Moderate Dems are liberals

You're thinking of leftists

Leftist and Liberal gets conflated a lot because Republicans are so far right that liberals look like extreme leftists to them, but liberalism is a right wing ideology.

I don't have time to speak two languages just so I can keep up with which version of terminology different individuals are using.

Why do you frame it like this?

It's not my version of terminology, that just is what it is

Words mean things, just because you learned the wrong definition doesn't mean both definitions are equally valid

Liberal and leftist are very much not synonymous, and using the correct word helps clarify things. That's kind of the whole point of a shared language, after all.

[Luv those Knicks]

Moderate Dems are liberals

You're thinking of leftists

Leftist and Liberal gets conflated a lot because Republicans are so far right that liberals look like extreme leftists to them, but liberalism is a right wing ideology.

I don't have time to speak two languages just so I can keep up with which version of terminology different individuals are using.

Why do you frame it like this?

It's not my version of terminology, that just is what it is

Words mean things, just because you learned the wrong definition doesn't mean both definitions are equally valid

Liberal and leftist are very much not synonymous, and using the correct word helps clarify things. That's kind of the whole point of a shared language, after all.

That's funny because that's exactly my reaction to your initial post.

Was it not clear enough that people further left are more likely to dislike the deal? Do I really need to know new definitions of what a liberal and leftist are to make that point? I'm honestly sick to death of people who fuss over definitions. It's like we have to have a whole different discussion now and fight over what words mean.

And, I'm pretty sure, now that you've made me google all this stupid ****, that I WAS TALKING ABOUT LIBERALS vs Moderate Democrats anyway. You weren't even correct.

[Luv those Knicks]

They tried like Fournier trys to play D.

This is one of those posts I just don't get. Either you didn't read the article, or you just didn't care.

Do you think it's under Biden's control to get republican congressmen to vote for a bill, or guarantee that all 50 senate democrats pass it through reconciliation with Manchin able to manipulate things or just flat out vote against?

This isn't Tip O'Neil to Ronald Reagan when they'd work things out. Congress doesn't work like that anymore.

It was and is against Manchin's and Sinema's personal financial interests to vote against raising the debt ceiling. This is a House Freedom Caucus thing. No one else in their right mind wants to crash the economy. It's against big businesses financial interests to vote against passing the debt payments. I hate the term "ceiling" because it suggests an inaccurate notion that we're unilaterally increasing the budget as opposed to paying our bills.

I respect your question, HW, and I've been looking into this, not just for you but also out of curiosity.

What I've found out, and don't quote me on this, but they discussed it. Ultimately it was congress's call, not Biden's. It was on Schumer & Pelosi.

Maybe they didn't want to pass 2 years because it would have given the Republicans something to call them irresponsible spenders for 2 years, but I'm only guessing. I'm not sure why Schumer didn't have 2 years of spending as a priority. Maybe it could have been filibusted, but I'm not an expert.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/26/congress-democrats-lame-duck-debt-ceiling-election-legislation

[DOT]

Do I really need to know new definitions of what a liberal and leftist are to make that point?

It's not a "new" definition though, you were just wrong

No need to get so upset about it, you learn something new every day.

[j4remi]

They tried like Fournier trys to play D.

This is one of those posts I just don't get. Either you didn't read the article, or you just didn't care.

Do you think it's under Biden's control to get republican congressmen to vote for a bill, or guarantee that all 50 senate democrats pass it through reconciliation with Manchin able to manipulate things or just flat out vote against?

This isn't Tip O'Neil to Ronald Reagan when they'd work things out. Congress doesn't work like that anymore.

Yes. A sitting president without the House and barely holding the Senate will get pressed for concessions. Still don't see anyone saying what Biden was supposed to extract as a gain from the GOP in his position. It was a matter of how much he had to give up, not how much he could get. That's just common sense.

This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,”

But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.

[HarthorneWingo]

I think what WIngo is saying is during Lame Duck they could have just done it with Dem votes as they still had the house.

Exactlly!

King Joe Manchin would never allow it, and nothing could be done to whip his vote because the Democrats only use threats against progressives.

Ain’t it the truth.

[MrDollarBills]

This is one of those posts I just don't get. Either you didn't read the article, or you just didn't care.

Do you think it's under Biden's control to get republican congressmen to vote for a bill, or guarantee that all 50 senate democrats pass it through reconciliation with Manchin able to manipulate things or just flat out vote against?

This isn't Tip O'Neil to Ronald Reagan when they'd work things out. Congress doesn't work like that anymore.

Yes. A sitting president without the House and barely holding the Senate will get pressed for concessions. Still don't see anyone saying what Biden was supposed to extract as a gain from the GOP in his position. It was a matter of how much he had to give up, not how much he could get. That's just common sense.

This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,”

But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.

re: Manchin

The ass hole is probably using the razor thin Senate margin as leverage over Schumer, he basically gets all the hand outs for West Virginia that helps to line his pockets (there's pork in this bill for a gas pipeline project that he directly benefits from) in exchange for not defecting to the GOP or doing what that piece of **** Sinema did by going indy and caucusing with Republicans.

I totally would love to see him tar and feathered by the Senate Dems for his behavior since Biden took office, but I don't think they want to push him over to the GOP before he eventually gets booted out anyway next November in R+22 West Virginia, you know, for not wanting 10 year olds to push out rape babies.

Either way, the Senate map in 2024 looks shaky for Dems, so I don't have much hope for substantial legislation being passed over the next 4 years, nevermind getting the debt ceiling abolished.

[MrDollarBills]

Moderate Dems are liberals

You're thinking of leftists

Leftist and Liberal gets conflated a lot because Republicans are so far right that liberals look like extreme leftists to them, but liberalism is a right wing ideology.

I don't have time to speak two languages just so I can keep up with which version of terminology different individuals are using.

Why do you frame it like this?

It's not my version of terminology, that just is what it is

Words mean things, just because you learned the wrong definition doesn't mean both definitions are equally valid

Liberal and leftist are very much not synonymous, and using the correct word helps clarify things. That's kind of the whole point of a shared language, after all.

Right. People like Bernie Sanders and AOC wouldn't even be considered to the left in Western Europe.