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OT: Debt Limit Sh*t

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Is Biden a P*ssy for not using the 14th amendment or the $Trillion$ coin?

Poll ended at Tue May 23, 2023 12:22 am

Yes, he's a P*ssy.
5
56%
No, he's a secret Republican. What else is new?
2
22%
No, he's so bravely going to cut Vet benefits and Food stamps I can't help but smile. We now need more under 10 workers in steel mills to crush the unions.
0
No votes
I have no opinion till Comrade Putin tells me what to think.
0
No votes
Wait, is this really 2023?
2
22%
 
Total votes: 9

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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#201 » by j4remi » Tue May 30, 2023 10:38 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
j4remi wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Yes. A sitting president without the House and barely holding the Senate will get pressed for concessions. Still don't see anyone saying what Biden was supposed to extract as a gain from the GOP in his position. It was a matter of how much he had to give up, not how much he could get. That's just common sense.


This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,


But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD :lol:

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.


re: Manchin

The ass hole is probably using the razor thin Senate margin as leverage over Schumer, he basically gets all the hand outs for West Virginia that helps to line his pockets (there's pork in this bill for a gas pipeline project that he directly benefits from) in exchange for not defecting to the GOP or doing what that piece of **** Sinema did by going indy and caucusing with Republicans.

I totally would love to see him tar and feathered by the Senate Dems for his behavior since Biden took office, but I don't think they want to push him over to the GOP before he eventually gets booted out anyway next November in R+22 West Virginia, you know, for not wanting 10 year olds to push out rape babies.

Either way, the Senate map in 2024 looks shaky for Dems, so I don't have much hope for substantial legislation being passed over the next 4 years, nevermind getting the debt ceiling abolished.


The Manchin problem has been obvious and brewing for a long time. They should have dealt with it during the Infrastructure bill negotiations, but they split the bill up and gave him what he wanted. They still had time to reel him in over those oil permits if they'd handled it properly and pushed through a budget while they had both majorities.

But that's the issue here. It's easy to look at these debt-ceiling negotiations in a vacuum, but they're an amalgamation of crappy decisions along the way. One feckless decision begets the next. This debt ceiling crap is especially dumb. Everyone should have seen it coming.

Read on Twitter


Substantial Legislation is dead. The Dems don't have any willpower to fight for it. They didn't with a majority; they certainly don't without the House. On top of that, Biden's been flirting with his all-time lows in approval, and the voting public thinks Trump did a better job with the economy. On the material side of things, the Dems have been weak and on the electoral side of things, their saving grace is that the Republicans have fully embraced bigotry without much else backing it. But if Americans don't feel material gains from the Biden presidency, then the Dems are playing with fire.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#202 » by 8516knicks » Tue May 30, 2023 10:51 pm

At least we might get some fun popcorn munching time votes if the maniacs try to oust McCarthy.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#203 » by NYKinMIA » Tue May 30, 2023 11:00 pm

two words

debt jubilee 8-)
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#204 » by MrDollarBills » Wed May 31, 2023 12:07 am

j4remi wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
j4remi wrote:
This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,


But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD :lol:

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.


re: Manchin

The ass hole is probably using the razor thin Senate margin as leverage over Schumer, he basically gets all the hand outs for West Virginia that helps to line his pockets (there's pork in this bill for a gas pipeline project that he directly benefits from) in exchange for not defecting to the GOP or doing what that piece of **** Sinema did by going indy and caucusing with Republicans.

I totally would love to see him tar and feathered by the Senate Dems for his behavior since Biden took office, but I don't think they want to push him over to the GOP before he eventually gets booted out anyway next November in R+22 West Virginia, you know, for not wanting 10 year olds to push out rape babies.

Either way, the Senate map in 2024 looks shaky for Dems, so I don't have much hope for substantial legislation being passed over the next 4 years, nevermind getting the debt ceiling abolished.


The Manchin problem has been obvious and brewing for a long time. They should have dealt with it during the Infrastructure bill negotiations, but they split the bill up and gave him what he wanted. They still had time to reel him in over those oil permits if they'd handled it properly and pushed through a budget while they had both majorities.

But that's the issue here. It's easy to look at these debt-ceiling negotiations in a vacuum, but they're an amalgamation of crappy decisions along the way. One feckless decision begets the next. This debt ceiling crap is especially dumb. Everyone should have seen it coming.

Read on Twitter


Substantial Legislation is dead. The Dems don't have any willpower to fight for it. They didn't with a majority; they certainly don't without the House. On top of that, Biden's been flirting with his all-time lows in approval, and the voting public thinks Trump did a better job with the economy. On the material side of things, the Dems have been weak and on the electoral side of things, their saving grace is that the Republicans have fully embraced bigotry without much else backing it. But if Americans don't feel material gains from the Biden presidency, then the Dems are playing with fire.



Agreed totally. Dems need deliverable wins for the base. With student loan payments resuming, I don't know what Biden and the rest of them have planned to ease the pain for millions.

AOC warned Pelosi about that infrastructure bill and of course, she was ignored and Manchin screwed them anyway.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#205 » by 8516knicks » Wed May 31, 2023 12:12 am

NYKinMIA wrote:two words

debt jubilee 8-)


The interesting thing is the GOP wants to scuttle the student debt relief YET they don't care about ALL THEIR GUIYS who made out BIG with PPP FORGIVEN LOANS!!!!! :banghead:
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#206 » by Luv those Knicks » Wed May 31, 2023 12:24 am

j4remi wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
j4remi wrote:
This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,


But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD :lol:

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.


re: Manchin

The ass hole is probably using the razor thin Senate margin as leverage over Schumer, he basically gets all the hand outs for West Virginia that helps to line his pockets (there's pork in this bill for a gas pipeline project that he directly benefits from) in exchange for not defecting to the GOP or doing what that piece of **** Sinema did by going indy and caucusing with Republicans.

I totally would love to see him tar and feathered by the Senate Dems for his behavior since Biden took office, but I don't think they want to push him over to the GOP before he eventually gets booted out anyway next November in R+22 West Virginia, you know, for not wanting 10 year olds to push out rape babies.

Either way, the Senate map in 2024 looks shaky for Dems, so I don't have much hope for substantial legislation being passed over the next 4 years, nevermind getting the debt ceiling abolished.


The Manchin problem has been obvious and brewing for a long time. They should have dealt with it during the Infrastructure bill negotiations, but they split the bill up and gave him what he wanted. They still had time to reel him in over those oil permits if they'd handled it properly and pushed through a budget while they had both majorities.

But that's the issue here. It's easy to look at these debt-ceiling negotiations in a vacuum, but they're an amalgamation of crappy decisions along the way. One feckless decision begets the next. This debt ceiling crap is especially dumb. Everyone should have seen it coming.

Read on Twitter


Substantial Legislation is dead. The Dems don't have any willpower to fight for it. They didn't with a majority; they certainly don't without the House. On top of that, Biden's been flirting with his all-time lows in approval, and the voting public thinks Trump did a better job with the economy. On the material side of things, the Dems have been weak and on the electoral side of things, their saving grace is that the Republicans have fully embraced bigotry without much else backing it. But if Americans don't feel material gains from the Biden presidency, then the Dems are playing with fire.


I get how this is the Dems in congress's fault. I don't get how Biden is to blame because congress didn't approve a debt increase during the lame duck session.

The tweet blames Biden, then talks about what congress didn't do. How does that make any sense?
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#207 » by 8516knicks » Wed May 31, 2023 12:57 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:
j4remi wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
re: Manchin

The ass hole is probably using the razor thin Senate margin as leverage over Schumer, he basically gets all the hand outs for West Virginia that helps to line his pockets (there's pork in this bill for a gas pipeline project that he directly benefits from) in exchange for not defecting to the GOP or doing what that piece of **** Sinema did by going indy and caucusing with Republicans.

I totally would love to see him tar and feathered by the Senate Dems for his behavior since Biden took office, but I don't think they want to push him over to the GOP before he eventually gets booted out anyway next November in R+22 West Virginia, you know, for not wanting 10 year olds to push out rape babies.

Either way, the Senate map in 2024 looks shaky for Dems, so I don't have much hope for substantial legislation being passed over the next 4 years, nevermind getting the debt ceiling abolished.


The Manchin problem has been obvious and brewing for a long time. They should have dealt with it during the Infrastructure bill negotiations, but they split the bill up and gave him what he wanted. They still had time to reel him in over those oil permits if they'd handled it properly and pushed through a budget while they had both majorities.

But that's the issue here. It's easy to look at these debt-ceiling negotiations in a vacuum, but they're an amalgamation of crappy decisions along the way. One feckless decision begets the next. This debt ceiling crap is especially dumb. Everyone should have seen it coming.

Read on Twitter


Substantial Legislation is dead. The Dems don't have any willpower to fight for it. They didn't with a majority; they certainly don't without the House. On top of that, Biden's been flirting with his all-time lows in approval, and the voting public thinks Trump did a better job with the economy. On the material side of things, the Dems have been weak and on the electoral side of things, their saving grace is that the Republicans have fully embraced bigotry without much else backing it. But if Americans don't feel material gains from the Biden presidency, then the Dems are playing with fire.


I get how this is the Dems in congress's fault. I don't get how Biden is to blame because congress didn't approve a debt increase during the lame duck session.

The tweet blames Biden, then talks about what congress didn't do. How does that make any sense?


******
I think they blame Biden for not using the 14th or the coin.
They blame Dems in general for not doing it during Lame Duck. Perhaps since Biden heads the D party, that's why he's also catching flak for it. :dontknow:
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#208 » by j4remi » Wed May 31, 2023 1:20 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:
j4remi wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
re: Manchin

The ass hole is probably using the razor thin Senate margin as leverage over Schumer, he basically gets all the hand outs for West Virginia that helps to line his pockets (there's pork in this bill for a gas pipeline project that he directly benefits from) in exchange for not defecting to the GOP or doing what that piece of **** Sinema did by going indy and caucusing with Republicans.

I totally would love to see him tar and feathered by the Senate Dems for his behavior since Biden took office, but I don't think they want to push him over to the GOP before he eventually gets booted out anyway next November in R+22 West Virginia, you know, for not wanting 10 year olds to push out rape babies.

Either way, the Senate map in 2024 looks shaky for Dems, so I don't have much hope for substantial legislation being passed over the next 4 years, nevermind getting the debt ceiling abolished.


The Manchin problem has been obvious and brewing for a long time. They should have dealt with it during the Infrastructure bill negotiations, but they split the bill up and gave him what he wanted. They still had time to reel him in over those oil permits if they'd handled it properly and pushed through a budget while they had both majorities.

But that's the issue here. It's easy to look at these debt-ceiling negotiations in a vacuum, but they're an amalgamation of crappy decisions along the way. One feckless decision begets the next. This debt ceiling crap is especially dumb. Everyone should have seen it coming.

Read on Twitter


Substantial Legislation is dead. The Dems don't have any willpower to fight for it. They didn't with a majority; they certainly don't without the House. On top of that, Biden's been flirting with his all-time lows in approval, and the voting public thinks Trump did a better job with the economy. On the material side of things, the Dems have been weak and on the electoral side of things, their saving grace is that the Republicans have fully embraced bigotry without much else backing it. But if Americans don't feel material gains from the Biden presidency, then the Dems are playing with fire.


I get how this is the Dems in congress's fault. I don't get how Biden is to blame because congress didn't approve a debt increase during the lame duck session.

The tweet blames Biden, then talks about what congress didn't do. How does that make any sense?


The Biden administration actively participated in the talks and negotiations. Everyone knew what the Republicans would do. The Dems' inability to get a deal done falls directly on leadership. Pelosi and Schumer certainly shoulder a healthy chunk of the blame, but the Biden Admin does too.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/03/biden-world-lame-duck-debt-ceiling-2024-00064887
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#209 » by j4remi » Wed May 31, 2023 1:37 am

8516knicks wrote:******
I think they blame Biden for not using the 14th or the coin.
They blame Dems in general for not doing it during Lame Duck. Perhaps since Biden heads the D party, that's why he's also catching flak for it. :dontknow:


Yeah, it'd be a bit crazy if the president wasn't playing a guiding role over decisions made by the party and playing a key role in negotiations like that. The link in my last post shows some of what was being floated and mentions how involved the Biden admin was in trying to get something done, but ultimately fell flat.

But what makes that worse is that this administration knew exactly what was coming. This next link is to a story about prior attempts at budget agreements on the backdrop of debt ceiling increases during the Obama admin. This game of the Republicans' wasn't a secret and the lack of preparation of alternatives in case talks fell apart is where Biden truly dropped the ball.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/01/biden-debt-ceiling-negotiation-republicans-congress-obama/672858/
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#210 » by Clyde_Style » Wed May 31, 2023 2:29 am

j4remi wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Luv those Knicks wrote:
This is one of those posts I just don't get. Either you didn't read the article, or you just didn't care.

Do you think it's under Biden's control to get republican congressmen to vote for a bill, or guarantee that all 50 senate democrats pass it through reconciliation with Manchin able to manipulate things or just flat out vote against?

This isn't Tip O'Neil to Ronald Reagan when they'd work things out. Congress doesn't work like that anymore.


Yes. A sitting president without the House and barely holding the Senate will get pressed for concessions. Still don't see anyone saying what Biden was supposed to extract as a gain from the GOP in his position. It was a matter of how much he had to give up, not how much he could get. That's just common sense.


This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,


But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD :lol:

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.


I understand that something could of or should of been done 2 years ago, but it wasn't.

And saying you can bully Manchin into submission is an assumption on your part. You have absolutely no way of knowing if Manchin would hold the party line if he was put in that position. Sinema went rogue already.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#211 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed May 31, 2023 3:24 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
j4remi wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Yes. A sitting president without the House and barely holding the Senate will get pressed for concessions. Still don't see anyone saying what Biden was supposed to extract as a gain from the GOP in his position. It was a matter of how much he had to give up, not how much he could get. That's just common sense.


This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,


But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD :lol:

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.


I understand that something could of or should of been done 2 years ago, but it wasn't.

And saying you can bully Manchin into submission is an assumption on your part. You have absolutely no way of knowing if Manchin would hold the party line if he was put in that position. Sinema went rogue already.


But Biden was the one who drew the line in the sand when he declared, “No negotiation on the debt ceiling!” Again, if Manchin and/or Sinema decided def to obstruct, then that’s when Biden should’ve been prepared to exercise the 14th A. He dropped the ball on this anyway you slice it.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#212 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed May 31, 2023 7:32 am

Can we at least all agree that the GOP Presidential Primaries are going to be hilarious? I mean Trump and DeSantis et al. calling each other - and their wives - foul names is going to be amazing.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#213 » by j4remi » Wed May 31, 2023 12:28 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
j4remi wrote:
This is defeatist and requires completely ignoring that the sitting president has been in his position long enough to have both the House and Senate. He COULD have pushed to get a budget done while he had that advantageous situation.

NOW Biden is saying that they'll look into workarounds for the debt ceiling “No, I think it would cause more controversy getting rid of the debt limit,” Biden said. “Although I am exploring the idea that we would, at a later date a year or two from now, decide whether or not the 14th Amendment, how that actually would impact on whether or not you need to do the debt limit every year.
“But that’s another day,


But, because the Biden Admin was too shortsighted to address this obvious oncoming issue; they had "no choice" but to negotiate. But in a good-faith negotiation there's give and take. This deal is all give, no take. So the administration stumbled into a hostage situation that anyone with a "common sense" could have predicted was coming; and then they were forced to give stuff up without getting JACK.

They even queued this up to occur again in 2 years unless they can hold the executive and legislative branch entirely...which ironically, THEY ALREADY HAD :lol:

It's just a bunch of excuses. "But Joe Manchin...but it could have been worse...but the judges might block it" and yet, there’s no will to make necessary changes to avoid any of it.

You want to stop judges from castrating the country? Plenty of candidates suggested judicial reforms.
Joe Manchin is controlling legislation? At a minimum remove his committee seats and influence as punishment (like Reid threatened Lieberman with back in the day).
It could have been worse? That doesn't mean it's suddenly good.


I understand that something could of or should of been done 2 years ago, but it wasn't.

And saying you can bully Manchin into submission is an assumption on your part. You have absolutely no way of knowing if Manchin would hold the party line if he was put in that position. Sinema went rogue already.


But Biden was the one who drew the line in the sand when he declared, “No negotiation on the debt ceiling!” Again, if Manchin and/or Sinema decided def to obstruct, then that’s when Biden should’ve been prepared to exercise the 14th A. He dropped the ball on this anyway you slice it.


Yep, plus I didn't even say bully Manchin into submission. I've mentioned a few times that the pipeline Manchin slipped into this budget for his vote, could have been utilized for negotiating leverage without bullying. The bullying stuff would be cutting off his ability to set up more attacks on his own party from a position of authority. It's an after-the-fact way to keep it from happening again (because it's already happened multiple times to this administration during crucial bill negotiations).

The reason I mention multiple avenues to addressing the problem is so the Biden apologia can't just pick out one aspect and iron their own assumptions over the result. There were a number of concepts floated that could have been prepared for addressing this, and a smart administration would have had more than one in the works because that gives them leverage when budget talks start.

It's why I keep saying that you can't just silo off these negotiations to the last couple of months. Which is precisely what Clyde tried to do "yeah sure, the problem could have been addressed 2 years ago but it wasn't" THAT'S MY POINT. That doesn't excuse this obvious net-loss.

Sam Seder said it best on Majority Report yesterday, "this deal sucks!" The fact it could have been much worse just solidifies that something should have been done sooner to address the impending trouble.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#214 » by Oscirus » Wed May 31, 2023 12:59 pm

Bidens always been determined to show everyone that he can work across the aisle and more times than not, he got bent over in negotiations, so honestly, Im surprised he got as much as he did in this deal. I assume its likely because the republicans had no leverage since theres no way their backers would let the stock market go to ****.

Dems have always been about strategic incompetence. Which is why those tax cuts are still there. They'll say they're against them, but they wont do a damn thing to remove them.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#215 » by Clyde_Style » Wed May 31, 2023 1:17 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Can we at least all agree that the GOP Presidential Primaries are going to be hilarious? I mean Trump and DeSantis et al. calling each other - and their wives - foul names is going to be amazing.


That mainstream media outlets keep promoting Trump as a candidate is the worst thing for the GOP. I hope they keep doing it and Trump does get the nomination as he gets convicted of various crimes.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#216 » by MrDollarBills » Wed May 31, 2023 2:27 pm

Oscirus wrote:Bidens always been determined to show everyone that he can work across the aisle and more times than not, he got bent over in negotiations, so honestly, Im surprised he got as much as he did in this deal. I assume its likely because the republicans had no leverage since theres no way their backers would let the stock market go to ****.

Dems have always been about strategic incompetence. Which is why those tax cuts are still there. They'll say they're against them, but they wont do a damn thing to remove them.


Pelosi and her husband make a sh*t ton of cash from their insider trading, so there was never any urgency to strip away those tax cuts and tax billionaires at an acceptable rate.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#217 » by dakomish23 » Wed May 31, 2023 4:53 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
j4remi wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
re: Manchin

The ass hole is probably using the razor thin Senate margin as leverage over Schumer, he basically gets all the hand outs for West Virginia that helps to line his pockets (there's pork in this bill for a gas pipeline project that he directly benefits from) in exchange for not defecting to the GOP or doing what that piece of **** Sinema did by going indy and caucusing with Republicans.

I totally would love to see him tar and feathered by the Senate Dems for his behavior since Biden took office, but I don't think they want to push him over to the GOP before he eventually gets booted out anyway next November in R+22 West Virginia, you know, for not wanting 10 year olds to push out rape babies.

Either way, the Senate map in 2024 looks shaky for Dems, so I don't have much hope for substantial legislation being passed over the next 4 years, nevermind getting the debt ceiling abolished.


The Manchin problem has been obvious and brewing for a long time. They should have dealt with it during the Infrastructure bill negotiations, but they split the bill up and gave him what he wanted. They still had time to reel him in over those oil permits if they'd handled it properly and pushed through a budget while they had both majorities.

But that's the issue here. It's easy to look at these debt-ceiling negotiations in a vacuum, but they're an amalgamation of crappy decisions along the way. One feckless decision begets the next. This debt ceiling crap is especially dumb. Everyone should have seen it coming.

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Substantial Legislation is dead. The Dems don't have any willpower to fight for it. They didn't with a majority; they certainly don't without the House. On top of that, Biden's been flirting with his all-time lows in approval, and the voting public thinks Trump did a better job with the economy. On the material side of things, the Dems have been weak and on the electoral side of things, their saving grace is that the Republicans have fully embraced bigotry without much else backing it. But if Americans don't feel material gains from the Biden presidency, then the Dems are playing with fire.



Agreed totally. Dems need deliverable wins for the base. With student loan payments resuming, I don't know what Biden and the rest of them have planned to ease the pain for millions.

AOC warned Pelosi about that infrastructure bill and of course, she was ignored and Manchin screwed them anyway.


Now is the time for the full court press on things that are OVERWHELMINGLY popular

Common sense gun laws - Fox News poll https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-voters-favor-gun-limits-arming-citizens-reduce-gun-violence Yep even the conservatives know it's time to rein it in
- background checks for guns 87%
- enforce existing gun laws 81%
- legal age 21 to buy all guns 81%
- require mental health checks 80%
- flag people danger to self 80%
- require 30 day waiting period 77%

Child related assistance https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/02/15/most-americans-support-family-friendly-policies
- offering tax credits for families with children 73%
- support expanding publicly funded pre-kindergarten programs 74%
- requiring employers to offer paid parental leave for all working parents 70%

These are slam dunk issues that would raise his approval rating to the 60s/70s & if the GOP fights them, would lower their approval ratings even worse. Biden could do a massive blue wave if he wasn't such a corporate huxter
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#218 » by duetta » Wed May 31, 2023 6:41 pm

I have a lot of complaints about Biden but not about this stuff. Our fate was set in stone the moment that that judge drew up 'fair' congressional districts for NY while judges in other states (and the corrupt Supremes) allowed the GOP to gerrymander to their hearts delight.

The entire system is broken due to the Supremes allowing obvious corruption in the drawing of Congressional districts, and in other aspects of campaign law.

As for the larger arguments. Biden obviously thought the 14th Amendment option to be too risky given the six conservatives on the Supreme Court.

The whining about Manchin and Sinema is 'sound and fury, signifying nothing'. As much as I have grown to loathe them, without them in the Democratic coalition there would not be another Democratic judge confirmed over the next two years.

I wish Americans were better educated and more informed about both the vital issues of our day and emerging crisis within representative Democracy. But we are not. We have the least informed electorate in the advanced industrial world. We're dumb and proud of it.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#219 » by Oscirus » Wed May 31, 2023 6:48 pm

Lets be real even if manchin and sinema go, theres a tester and other hidden dems to take their place. Dems dont want certain things to go through and anoint certain dems to be the bad guy. Wont change with those two leaving.
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Re: OT: Debt Limit Sh*t 

Post#220 » by MrDollarBills » Wed May 31, 2023 7:26 pm

Oscirus wrote:Lets be real even if manchin and sinema go, theres a tester and other hidden dems to take their place. Dems dont want certain things to go through and anoint certain dems to be the bad guy. Wont change with those two leaving.



Tester is probably a goner come next fall.
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