One of the things I hate most about this new NBA

[MrDollarBills]

What I hate about the new NBA is that there are 30 teams and 20 of them get rewarded with a postseason birth. The playin tournament is like the GED of professional basketball. What other league rewards mediocrity as much as the NBA?

Yeah but Miami went from what, 10th seed to the NBA finals because of it?

I think the play in games have produced some decent content for the league. That said, I'd probably shorten it

[MrDollarBills]

I never had the problem watching in the 90's.

Yeah man, like I said

Nostalgia and selective memory go a long way

It's like 90% just "old man yells at clouds"

I dare anyone romanticizing the 90s to watch footage of any of Mike Fratello's old Cavs teams from like 95 onward and tell me with a straight face that the game was better then.

I think the officiating in the NBA is the biggest issue, along with some players not giving a sh*t about their profession and holding teams hostage. Guys like Kyrie, Ben, and Zion are bad for business. The style of play is still very fun, and skill is outweighing athleticism, which means if you aren't capable of being a multi facted player, you'll be headed to China.

[thebuzzardman]

I never had the problem watching in the 90's.

Yeah man, like I said

Nostalgia and selective memory go a long way

It's like 90% just "old man yells at clouds"

I dare anyone romanticizing the 90s to watch footage of any of Mike Fratello's old Cavs teams from like 95 onward and tell me with a straight face that the game was better then.

I think the officiating in the NBA is the biggest issue, along with some players not giving a sh*t about their profession and holding teams hostage. Guys like Kyrie, Ben, and Zion are bad for business. The style of play is still very fun, and skill is outweighing athleticism, which means if you aren't capable of being a multi facted player, you'll be headed to China.

That sh*t sucked. Chuck Daly had success with a grind it out, really physical style, Riley copied him because the Knicks didn't have enough talent and Fratello took milking every second of the clock to a twisted art.

Still, I thik there was a window in the 80s - post ABA merger, where the league got more athletic and more creative. And the overall talent influsion.

Bird/Magic/Dr J/Moses, ABA imports like Issel and Kiki (I might have the timing wrong) and McGinnis and David Thompson and so on.



I'm not sure when Daly ruined it, but feels like that good era ran about 78 to 88.
And around that time the "milk the clock/bullyball" thing lasted until when? 15 years?


Then the 90's kind of sucked, except the Knicks were good and then
What was it, around 2005 the game loosened up again? 2010?
When people started to copy D'Antoni.

And then the Warriors/Rockets took it to the next level and everyone is playing a variation of that style.

[Chanel Bomber]

I never had the problem watching in the 90's.

Yeah man, like I said

Nostalgia and selective memory go a long way

It's like 90% just "old man yells at clouds"

I dare anyone romanticizing the 90s to watch footage of any of Mike Fratello's old Cavs teams from like 95 onward and tell me with a straight face that the game was better then.

I think the officiating in the NBA is the biggest issue, along with some players not giving a sh*t about their profession and holding teams hostage. Guys like Kyrie, Ben, and Zion are bad for business. The style of play is still very fun, and skill is outweighing athleticism, which means if you aren't capable of being a multi facted player, you'll be headed to China.

Teams play better basketball nowadays. They are much smarter than they were back in the 90s, and skill sets have evolved to answer the demand.

But the feeling was just different in the Jordan era, at least in my memory. LeBron even at his peak never compared to Jordan in terms of mass appeal and mystique. The stars were the recognizable face of their respective franchises and had this mythical quality to them that no longer exists in the internet/social era, which in and of itself isn't necessarily a negative development.

But MJ carried the league to a whole other level. Most of the teams played a horrible brand of basketball by today's standards but there is something exhilarating to me about rewatching these wars between Knicks and Pacers, Knicks and Bulls, Sonics and Nuggets, Suns and Rockets, etc. It felt like a tighter, rawer, almost truer, product, if that makes sense, from the jerseys, to the NBC theme, and the merch, but maybe we'll look back at this current era and feel the same way.

Or maybe not.

Kobe and Shaq could have carried it further if their personality clash hadn't gotten in the way. The ratings suffered for a solid 5 years after they split up.

The closest we came to the Jordan era this was 2016 with peak Steph and peak Bron but Durant had to fugging ruin it by trying to steal Curry's legacy. I will never forgive him for that, idgaf. The 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons brought back the feeling for me, for a fleeting moment.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It is fascinating how the game has evolved. The league saw a problem with the way the game was played in 90s and changed the rules based on what they wanted to see. Handchecking being the biggest difference. The players slowly adjusted to that, and the rules continue to evolve mostly to promote offense…more offense means more entertainment at least in the leagues view.

Some of it for the better but some of it has gone a little too far imo. It’s almost impossible to defend the perimeter now. I hate some of the rip threw fouls, the flops on the 3s, and uneven calls.

On the other end, every era that I can remember has had issues with officiating. It’s a really tough sport to officiate and will never be perfect. It’s tough to even get the calls consistent which is a frustrating part. Some things change, others stay the same. Whether it be the 80s, 90s, or today…Knicks keep getting screwed (or so it seems).

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah man, like I said

Nostalgia and selective memory go a long way

It's like 90% just "old man yells at clouds"

I dare anyone romanticizing the 90s to watch footage of any of Mike Fratello's old Cavs teams from like 95 onward and tell me with a straight face that the game was better then.

I think the officiating in the NBA is the biggest issue, along with some players not giving a sh*t about their profession and holding teams hostage. Guys like Kyrie, Ben, and Zion are bad for business. The style of play is still very fun, and skill is outweighing athleticism, which means if you aren't capable of being a multi facted player, you'll be headed to China.

That sh*t sucked. Chuck Daly had success with a grind it out, really physical style, Riley copied him because the Knicks didn't have enough talent and Fratello took milking every second of the clock to a twisted art.

Still, I thik there was a window in the 80s - post ABA merger, where the league got more athletic and more creative. And the overall talent influsion.

Bird/Magic/Dr J/Moses, ABA imports like Issel and Kiki (I might have the timing wrong) and McGinnis and David Thompson and so on.



I'm not sure when Daly ruined it, but feels like that good era ran about 78 to 88.
And around that time the "milk the clock/bullyball" thing lasted until when? 15 years?


Then the 90's kind of sucked, except the Knicks were good and then
What was it, around 2005 the game loosened up again? 2010?
When people started to copy D'Antoni.

And then the Warriors/Rockets took it to the next level and everyone is playing a variation of that style.

Yeah those Cavs games were brutal to watch.

Re: Coach Daly and the advent of bully ball, at least the Knicks had guys who were entertaining to watch in the early 90s. There was nothing even remotely entertaining about 147 point total grind fests that Fratello was orchestrating. Mike is a jersey guy so I'll always have love for him, but that sh*t was so ugly i dunno how i even sat through stuff like that. Late 90s - 2000s was dogsh*t too honestly, the Kidd led Nets were fun at that time because they played with pace, but the rest of the east was just a disaster vying for the chance to get destroyed by Shaq and Kobe.

I think the league is in a good place in terms of the game right now. The skill gap between the USA and the World has been destroyed, so we're now really getting some amazing talent taking the game to greater heights. I like team movement offense and three point shooting over isolation basketball.

[nykballa2k4]

Yeah man, like I said

Nostalgia and selective memory go a long way

It's like 90% just "old man yells at clouds"

I dare anyone romanticizing the 90s to watch footage of any of Mike Fratello's old Cavs teams from like 95 onward and tell me with a straight face that the game was better then.

I think the officiating in the NBA is the biggest issue, along with some players not giving a sh*t about their profession and holding teams hostage. Guys like Kyrie, Ben, and Zion are bad for business. The style of play is still very fun, and skill is outweighing athleticism, which means if you aren't capable of being a multi facted player, you'll be headed to China.

That sh*t sucked. Chuck Daly had success with a grind it out, really physical style, Riley copied him because the Knicks didn't have enough talent and Fratello took milking every second of the clock to a twisted art.

Still, I thik there was a window in the 80s - post ABA merger, where the league got more athletic and more creative. And the overall talent influsion.

Bird/Magic/Dr J/Moses, ABA imports like Issel and Kiki (I might have the timing wrong) and McGinnis and David Thompson and so on.



I'm not sure when Daly ruined it, but feels like that good era ran about 78 to 88.
And around that time the "milk the clock/bullyball" thing lasted until when? 15 years?


Then the 90's kind of sucked, except the Knicks were good and then
What was it, around 2005 the game loosened up again? 2010?
When people started to copy D'Antoni.

And then the Warriors/Rockets took it to the next level and everyone is playing a variation of that style.

I like watching an even match between offense and defense.
This raining 3's and MC hammer can't touch this defense for me is anxiety inducing.

[MrDollarBills]

It is fascinating how the game has evolved. The league saw a problem with the way the game was played in 90s and changed the rules based on what they wanted to see. Handchecking being the biggest difference. The players slowly adjusted to that, and the rules continue to evolve mostly to promote offense…more offense means more entertainment at least in the leagues view.

Some of it for the better but some of it has gone a little too far imo. It’s almost impossible to defend the perimeter now. I hate some of the rip threw fouls, the flops on the 3s, and uneven calls.

On the other end, every era that I can remember has had issues with officiating. It’s a really tough sport to officiate and will never be perfect. It’s tough to even get the calls consistent which is a frustrating part. Some things change, others stay the same. Whether it be the 80s, 90s, or today…Knicks keep getting screwed (or so it seems).

Yeah i think they have to clean up some things. Flopping needs to be punished severely, and they need to stop rewarding foul baiters like Embiid and Harden because then they get exposed come late April and May.

I think they also need to change the way charges and blocks are officiated. I don't think you should be allowed to run up and undercut a player already in motion.

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah man, like I said

Nostalgia and selective memory go a long way

It's like 90% just "old man yells at clouds"

I dare anyone romanticizing the 90s to watch footage of any of Mike Fratello's old Cavs teams from like 95 onward and tell me with a straight face that the game was better then.

I think the officiating in the NBA is the biggest issue, along with some players not giving a sh*t about their profession and holding teams hostage. Guys like Kyrie, Ben, and Zion are bad for business. The style of play is still very fun, and skill is outweighing athleticism, which means if you aren't capable of being a multi facted player, you'll be headed to China.

Teams play better basketball nowadays. They are much smarter than they were back in the 90s, and skill sets have evolved to answer the demand.

But the feeling was just different in the Jordan era, at least in my memory. LeBron even at his peak never compared to Jordan in terms of mass appeal and mystique. The stars were the recognizable face of their respective franchises and had this mythical quality to them that no longer exists in the internet/social era, which in and of itself isn't necessarily a negative development.

But MJ carried the league to a whole other level. Most of the teams played a horrible brand of basketball by today's standards but there is something exhilarating to me about rewatching these wars between Knicks and Pacers, Knicks and Bulls, Sonics and Nuggets, Suns and Rockets, etc. It felt like a tighter, rawer, almost truer, product, if that makes sense, from the jerseys, to the NBC theme, and the merch, but maybe we'll look back at this current era and feel the same way.

Or maybe not.

Kobe and Shaq could have carried it further if their personality clash hadn't gotten in the way. The ratings suffered for a solid 5 years after they split up.

The closest we came to the Jordan era this was 2016 with peak Steph and peak Bron but Durant had to fugging ruin it by trying to steal Curry's legacy. I will never forgive him for that, idgaf. The 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons brought back the feeling for me, for a fleeting moment.

Yeah it wasn't all slugfest crap, the Sonics were a must watch team every night. Knicks vs Bulls had everyone tuning in even if you weren't a fan of either team. The players seemed larger than life itself back then, but maybe it's because I'm older now and my world doesn't revolve around hoops anymore like it did in the 90s. I remember going to play ball at noon on Sundays and then rushing home to make sure i caught the NBA on NBC...that was like an event back then.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It is fascinating how the game has evolved. The league saw a problem with the way the game was played in 90s and changed the rules based on what they wanted to see. Handchecking being the biggest difference. The players slowly adjusted to that, and the rules continue to evolve mostly to promote offense…more offense means more entertainment at least in the leagues view.

Some of it for the better but some of it has gone a little too far imo. It’s almost impossible to defend the perimeter now. I hate some of the rip threw fouls, the flops on the 3s, and uneven calls.

On the other end, every era that I can remember has had issues with officiating. It’s a really tough sport to officiate and will never be perfect. It’s tough to even get the calls consistent which is a frustrating part. Some things change, others stay the same. Whether it be the 80s, 90s, or today…Knicks keep getting screwed (or so it seems).

Yeah i think they have to clean up some things. Flopping needs to be punished severely, and they need to stop rewarding foul baiters like Embiid and Harden because then they get exposed come late April and May.

I think they also need to change the way charges and blocks are officiated. I don't think you should be allowed to run up and undercut a player already in motion.

Yea, I hate the undercutting on charges. It’s just not a basketball play. Charges in general get called too much.

Even someone like Marcus Smart flops way too much. He has a rep as a gritty defender but he is on the floor basically every possession trying to draw a foul.

Players get rewarded for it often so it won’t stop….penalties may help.

[MrDollarBills]

It is fascinating how the game has evolved. The league saw a problem with the way the game was played in 90s and changed the rules based on what they wanted to see. Handchecking being the biggest difference. The players slowly adjusted to that, and the rules continue to evolve mostly to promote offense…more offense means more entertainment at least in the leagues view.

Some of it for the better but some of it has gone a little too far imo. It’s almost impossible to defend the perimeter now. I hate some of the rip threw fouls, the flops on the 3s, and uneven calls.

On the other end, every era that I can remember has had issues with officiating. It’s a really tough sport to officiate and will never be perfect. It’s tough to even get the calls consistent which is a frustrating part. Some things change, others stay the same. Whether it be the 80s, 90s, or today…Knicks keep getting screwed (or so it seems).

Yeah i think they have to clean up some things. Flopping needs to be punished severely, and they need to stop rewarding foul baiters like Embiid and Harden because then they get exposed come late April and May.

I think they also need to change the way charges and blocks are officiated. I don't think you should be allowed to run up and undercut a player already in motion.

Yea, I hate the undercutting on charges. It’s just not a basketball play. Charges in general get called too much.

Even someone like Marcus Smart flops way too much. He has a rep as a gritty defender but he is on the floor basically every possession trying to draw a foul.

Players get rewarded for it often so it won’t stop….penalties may help.

It's just bizarre that a flagrant foul is assessed on a defender who doesn't give a shooter space to land, but Kyle Lowry can undercut someone driving in to the rim and gets rewarded for it. Which play is more dangerous? I'd say both plays put the offensive player in danger

[louisorr]

if the refs called traveling like the rules are written I don't think half the players could play the game.

[nykballa2k4]

It is fascinating how the game has evolved. The league saw a problem with the way the game was played in 90s and changed the rules based on what they wanted to see. Handchecking being the biggest difference. The players slowly adjusted to that, and the rules continue to evolve mostly to promote offense…more offense means more entertainment at least in the leagues view.

Some of it for the better but some of it has gone a little too far imo. It’s almost impossible to defend the perimeter now. I hate some of the rip threw fouls, the flops on the 3s, and uneven calls.

On the other end, every era that I can remember has had issues with officiating. It’s a really tough sport to officiate and will never be perfect. It’s tough to even get the calls consistent which is a frustrating part. Some things change, others stay the same. Whether it be the 80s, 90s, or today…Knicks keep getting screwed (or so it seems).

Yeah i think they have to clean up some things. Flopping needs to be punished severely, and they need to stop rewarding foul baiters like Embiid and Harden because then they get exposed come late April and May.

I think they also need to change the way charges and blocks are officiated. I don't think you should be allowed to run up and undercut a player already in motion.

Can we also call the offensive fouls on the off-hand push off?

[Ghetto Gospel]

Every single single single single play there's a screen run for the ball handler.... Growing up especially in the and1 mixtape era the NBA was heavily influenced by the streets simply bc the youth coming into the NBA was... It was all about the crossover which u rarely if ever see anymore. Everyone needs a screen....

Combine that with going to the rack is becoming less and less, the fouls are ridiculous even the slightest tap there's a whistle... If they reffed the game the same for Steph / Melo they would of spent the entire game at the foul line.

Iverson, Kobe, McGrady, steph (marbury) , francis, skip, crawford, jason williams, Tim Hardaway, Wade, Rose, Rondo, Wall, Arenas.... Can't say I'm loving the change of the direction from of raining 3s, soft defense, lack of ball handlers

it basically comes down to why a player would want to spend 5-10 seconds and energy putting moves on the guy in front of you to get by them, when you can easily get by them just screening them with a big.

there's still some great guys with really nice handles like kyrie, steph, dame, ja, fox, luka, etc. they just aren't showing it off as much cause it's too easy with a free screen. it just makes too much sense to use a screen when it saves both the shot clock and energy

[MrDollarBills]

It is fascinating how the game has evolved. The league saw a problem with the way the game was played in 90s and changed the rules based on what they wanted to see. Handchecking being the biggest difference. The players slowly adjusted to that, and the rules continue to evolve mostly to promote offense…more offense means more entertainment at least in the leagues view.

Some of it for the better but some of it has gone a little too far imo. It’s almost impossible to defend the perimeter now. I hate some of the rip threw fouls, the flops on the 3s, and uneven calls.

On the other end, every era that I can remember has had issues with officiating. It’s a really tough sport to officiate and will never be perfect. It’s tough to even get the calls consistent which is a frustrating part. Some things change, others stay the same. Whether it be the 80s, 90s, or today…Knicks keep getting screwed (or so it seems).

Yeah i think they have to clean up some things. Flopping needs to be punished severely, and they need to stop rewarding foul baiters like Embiid and Harden because then they get exposed come late April and May.

I think they also need to change the way charges and blocks are officiated. I don't think you should be allowed to run up and undercut a player already in motion.

Can we also call the offensive fouls on the off-hand push off?

Yep. That needs to be taken out as well.

[Fat Kat]

I think the Knicks should hire a flopping coach. He should have a background in both basketball and theater. I wonder if a former stuntman would work.

[Besart19]

I strongly disagree with the good stuff being just as good as it was 30 years ago.

And in 30 years, people who grew up listening to this are gonna say the same

It's like 90% nostalgia. There's no definitive way to judge quality, but people have been saying the same stuff for generations at this point, and we have records of it

That's not good or bad, it just is. You get older, you don't vibe with new music. And since we can't objectively measure quality, it's a pointless discussion, but I just don't subscribe to the philosophy that no matter what point in time you're at, music (and to a greater extent, culture as a whole) will have peaked around 20 years before that.

You cant have nostalgia for Classical or Rock, Jazz and Blues music of the 50-80s when you are born in 1986… the music now as most of the things just suck… same goes with the movies, soccer, bball at some degree, literature, etc