RealGM

This isn't for me. My upstairs neighbor is a little crazy, but a nice person. Elderly. I think it's called section 8 housing where part of her rent is paid by medicare.

She's been fighting with the new landlord for a while. She had mice (I think a lot of houses have mice), but the landlord did pay a fair bit to get the mice removed. Her fridge broke and the landlord took 2 weeks to replace it, and didn't pay for all the spoiled food. The parking lot isn't well paved, and she told me she broke a toe in the parking lot (that was before I moved in).

The landlord is a jerk, but I think she also complains too much. So, this is the question.

She started withholding her rent - which is a really stupid thing to do as I've since found out, like the worst thing she can do. She received eviction papers and has a trial date on Feb 20th. She wants her day in court so she can list everything the landlord has done wrong and ignored, but I worry that she might get an unfavorable ruling and I've advised her to talk to a lawyer.

She'd been talking with Legal Aid, but they're over-loaded and they told her they wouldn't take her case - after a few months of calls back and forth.

After legal aid, she spoke with a friend of a friend - a paralegal, not a lawyer and from a different state. The paralegal suggested she call the landlords lawyer and try to reach an agreement before the trial. She wants to move out, but she's 70, uses a walker and has a place full of stuff, so that could take a while.

I know the details are sketchy, and I don't know all the details. I don't want to see her hurt. I couldn't care less about the landlord who's obviously in it for income, and is an LLC and nobody in the neighborhood speaks well of the landlord.

But, what's her best course of action at this point?

1) Try to work something out before the court date, including talking to the landlord's lawyer though she doesn't have a lawyer herself.

2) Take her chances with court? She'd win the sympathy vote, but I don't know if the law is on her side.

I know the obvious answer is that she should talk to a lawyer, but most lawyers want $2,500 to take on her case. She doesn't want to pay that and, yes, she's a little nuts but she's a nice person and borderline disabled.

This is New Jersey. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

No clue about NJ laws but, if she kept the rent she withheld and has it all readily available to pay then I am sure she has a chance to not get evicted. She should have filed a suit when she decided to hold back rent though. If she just didn't pay rent and doesn't have the back rent to pay, she will probably be out on her ass soon.

the most important thing for her is to

1/ SHE MUST show up to court. this will de-facto slow the process down and preserve all of her options. source: my parents have hired an eviction lawyer in the recent past. the lawyer told us that if they show up to court on the first day you can basically add 6 months to the case. this was about 2018ish and she got moved out sometime before the pandemic.

2/ document that she has or is still paying rent even if it is partial. Be very careful. there are landlords what want to go thru the entire process and wont cash a partial rent check and use it as evidence that the tenant isn't paying. document all of these types of behaviors

3/ buyouts: I am unsure if there is any difference because she is in s8, but my parents did offer and close a buyout to a tenant that did not pay rent for about 8 months in NYC. I believe we paid her 5k and to move out which I later found out we got a great deal as crazy as it sounds.

and in case anyone else is reading this: my parents got screwed by the rental agent they were working with. they got assured that the credit check was good and that the renter had 6 months+ of a steady job. by the time we got to court we found out thru our eviction lawyer that the renter had like 500 credit and has had several evictions on her record already. dont just trust anyone and demand proof.

Jalen Bluntson wrote:No clue about NJ laws but, if she kept the rent she withheld and has it all readily available to pay then I am sure she has a chance to not get evicted. She should have filed a suit when she decided to hold back rent though. If she just didn't pay rent and doesn't have the back rent to pay, she will probably be out on her ass soon.

She did write and set aside the rent checks as money orders, but never sent them.

Any strong arguments on trying to work things out with their lawyer before hand, or role the dice in court?

Luv those Knicks wrote:

Jalen Bluntson wrote:No clue about NJ laws but, if she kept the rent she withheld and has it all readily available to pay then I am sure she has a chance to not get evicted. She should have filed a suit when she decided to hold back rent though. If she just didn't pay rent and doesn't have the back rent to pay, she will probably be out on her ass soon.

She did write and set aside the rent checks as money orders, but never sent them.

As long as she can prove it and pay upon demand...like it was im escrow basically...it should help. Again, she should have filed a complaint/suit as to why she wasn't paying first though. Not sure how NJ works but, having the money "in escrow" and valid reasons why may work in her favor considerably.

Sit with her and document the following:
1. Every time the tenant reached out to the landlord and requested for something to get fixed or complained when she got hurt. It could be duration of phone calls, doctor visits
2. Timely made money orders to pay off the rent but didn’t provide because the landlord didn’t fulfill his side of the agreement.

I would advise her (1) to reach out to the landlord's lawyer and offer to fully pay outstanding rent (this assumes of course she wants to stay). The worst case outcome is that the only counteroffer is something punitive on top of accrued rent, but at least she can tell the judge that she tried. The more evidence she can build that the landlord is not a reasonable counterparty, the better off she is if she goes through with the trial.

Is there even anything in the rental agreement that says the landlord is responsible for things like the fridge or any of the other things that she’s complaining about? Section 8 doesn’t guarantee that the landlord has to fix anything within a specific time frame nor does it cover things like fridges.

Also being a jerk isn’t grounds for any judge ruling against the jerk just because (well unless the jerk has the initials DT).

Also in NJ you can actually lose your section 8 qualification if you don’t pay your share of the rent. So if she hasn’t been paying it’s not only eviction she’s looking at, she could be looking at losing her section 8 qualifications.

Thats said what will help her is that there is currently a HUGE backlog in eviction hearings. That means it’ll likely take months and months before her case will even be heard. She should take that time to start cleaning up her stuff that you mentioned and if she serious and able start looking for a new place.

If shes not serious about moving or can’t afford to move (section 8 does not cover security deposits which is something that prevents a lot of section 8 renters from being able to just pick up and move to another place) then she can always talk to the landlord (or his reps) about a compromise. She can pay the back rent if he agrees to fix x, y and z.

But again landlords are not obligated to fix everything and provide new appliances unless it’s explicitly stated in the rental agreement. They are not even technically bound to provide appliances in the first place unless again explicitly stated in the rental agreement.

So she should double check what the landlord is responsible for. We give our renter a lease agreement that states exactly what we are responsible for, what the renter is responsible for so there is absolutely no confusion.

Tell the person to get a lawyer and dont get yourself involve. Unless you are a lawyer, what ever suggestion/help you try to provide will mostly make it worse.

Unless someone here is a lawyer and is representing you as a client, don't listen to anything people here say. Unless the advice is to get a lawyer.

Totally unrelated, but I regret listening to my friends who are not lawyer, for advice related to my divorce. i regret googling online to get my answers, instead of getting a lawyer right from the start.

Never mind this is a case in Jersey. I can’t give advice for Jersey…

ccvle wrote:Tell the person to get a lawyer and dont get yourself involve. Unless you are a lawyer, what ever suggestion/help you try to provide will mostly make it worse.

Unless someone here is a lawyer and is representing you as a client, don't listen to anything people here say. Unless the advice is to get a lawyer.

Totally unrelated, but I regret listening to my friends who are not lawyer, for advice related to my divorce. i regret googling online to get my answers, instead of getting a lawyer right from the start.

Thank you for that. That's probably closest to where I'm at.

I made this thread to look for some slam dunk answers. I don't want to give her "advice" because I'm not a lawyer and I don't know anyone who's faced an eviction court case.

I also hate to get involved, except that if she does get kicked out, she and I live in the same building - a small building, she's right upstairs, so I'll hear about it no matter what, and probably help her move out. I'd hate to see anything bad happen to her.

She tried to get legal aid's help - talked with them for months, and I wouldn't say they were stringing her along, but she kind of felt that way, and after 3 months they told her they wouldn't take her case.

She did talk to a lawyer but the lawyer wanted $2,500, which she either doesn't have or didn't want to pay.

She spoke to an out of state paralegal, who said "talk to their lawyer, see if you can work something out" I didn't give her that advice, somebody else did, but it sounds reasonable. Still, I don't know. Anything you say can be potentially used against you so . . . I don't know. But on the flip side, working something out before court might be better than rolling the dice at court.

One thing she has going for her is she's been keeping the checks as money orders, pre-written and she's made clear demands on the landlord, but I don't know if that's enough and she might have valid complaints such as I'm told (but wasn't here to witness it) that she broke her toe in the parking lot which is badly in need of re-paving and she did wait over 2 weeks for a replacement fridge, which I assume was the landlord's responsibility because he replaced it.

But I don't know, and I suspect she hasn't taken the proper legal actions and withholding her rent, from what I'm told, was a terrible move.

Imagine someone who grew up in a small town community, everyone knows everyone, she knew her landlords in the past as people for years and now the landlord that bought the building is an LLC, and not nice people (there are two in a partnership) and nobody in the town likes them, So, I understand her frustration, but I think she's made a lot of mistakes. She told me she "wants her day in court". I don't think she's 100% right either. I wish she'd handled this differently.

I fully realize that asking for advice on a message board isn't exactly the best place to look for answers. I tried legal stack exchange first, but they're very clear that they don't give legal advice, so that didn't work at all.

I worry about her and what might happen, so I asked here.

Luv those Knicks wrote:

ccvle wrote:Tell the person to get a lawyer and dont get yourself involve. Unless you are a lawyer, what ever suggestion/help you try to provide will mostly make it worse.

Unless someone here is a lawyer and is representing you as a client, don't listen to anything people here say. Unless the advice is to get a lawyer.

Totally unrelated, but I regret listening to my friends who are not lawyer, for advice related to my divorce. i regret googling online to get my answers, instead of getting a lawyer right from the start.

Thank you for that. That's probably closest to where I'm at.

I made this thread to look for some slam dunk answers. I don't want to give her "advice" because I'm not a lawyer and I don't know anyone who's faced an eviction court case.

I also hate to get involved, except that if she does get kicked out, she and I live in the same building - a small building, she's right upstairs, so I'll hear about it no matter what, and probably help her move out. I'd hate to see anything bad happen to her.

She tried to get legal aid's help - talked with them for months, and I wouldn't say they were stringing her along, but she kind of felt that way, and after 3 months they told her they wouldn't take her case.

She did talk to a lawyer but the lawyer wanted $2,500, which she either doesn't have or didn't want to pay.

She spoke to an out of state paralegal, who said "talk to their lawyer, see if you can work something out" I didn't give her that advice, somebody else did, but it sounds reasonable. Still, I don't know. Anything you say can be potentially used against you so . . . I don't know. But on the flip side, working something out before court might be better than rolling the dice at court.

One thing she has going for her is she's been keeping the checks as money orders, pre-written and she's made clear demands on the landlord, but I don't know if that's enough and she might have valid complaints such as I'm told (but wasn't here to witness it) that she broke her toe in the parking lot which is badly in need of re-paving and she did wait over 2 weeks for a replacement fridge, which I assume was the landlord's responsibility because he replaced it.

But I don't know, and I suspect she hasn't taken the proper legal actions and withholding her rent, from what I'm told, was a terrible move.

Imagine someone who grew up in a small town community, everyone knows everyone, she knew her landlords in the past as people for years and now the landlord that bought the building is an LLC, and not nice people (there are two in a partnership) and nobody in the town likes them, So, I understand her frustration, but I think she's made a lot of mistakes. She told me she "wants her day in court". I don't think she's 100% right either. I wish she'd handled this differently.

I fully realize that asking for advice on a message board isn't exactly the best place to look for answers. I tried legal stack exchange first, but they're very clear that they don't give legal advice, so that didn't work at all.

I worry about her and what might happen, so I asked here.

Hey man, the bolded part says it all. Sounds like you've done all you can without getting deeply into the weeds, so the best thing would be to just be there for her as things shake out and her move out if necessary. It's always a tough line to draw, when to say you've done what you can. It certainly sounds like you can rest assured that you're there.

Luv those Knicks wrote:

ccvle wrote:Tell the person to get a lawyer and dont get yourself involve. Unless you are a lawyer, what ever suggestion/help you try to provide will mostly make it worse.

Unless someone here is a lawyer and is representing you as a client, don't listen to anything people here say. Unless the advice is to get a lawyer.

Totally unrelated, but I regret listening to my friends who are not lawyer, for advice related to my divorce. i regret googling online to get my answers, instead of getting a lawyer right from the start.

Thank you for that. That's probably closest to where I'm at.

I made this thread to look for some slam dunk answers. I don't want to give her "advice" because I'm not a lawyer and I don't know anyone who's faced an eviction court case.

I also hate to get involved, except that if she does get kicked out, she and I live in the same building - a small building, she's right upstairs, so I'll hear about it no matter what, and probably help her move out. I'd hate to see anything bad happen to her.

She tried to get legal aid's help - talked with them for months, and I wouldn't say they were stringing her along, but she kind of felt that way, and after 3 months they told her they wouldn't take her case.

She did talk to a lawyer but the lawyer wanted $2,500, which she either doesn't have or didn't want to pay.

She spoke to an out of state paralegal, who said "talk to their lawyer, see if you can work something out" I didn't give her that advice, somebody else did, but it sounds reasonable. Still, I don't know. Anything you say can be potentially used against you so . . . I don't know. But on the flip side, working something out before court might be better than rolling the dice at court.

One thing she has going for her is she's been keeping the checks as money orders, pre-written and she's made clear demands on the landlord, but I don't know if that's enough and she might have valid complaints such as I'm told (but wasn't here to witness it) that she broke her toe in the parking lot which is badly in need of re-paving and she did wait over 2 weeks for a replacement fridge, which I assume was the landlord's responsibility because he replaced it.

But I don't know, and I suspect she hasn't taken the proper legal actions and withholding her rent, from what I'm told, was a terrible move.

Imagine someone who grew up in a small town community, everyone knows everyone, she knew her landlords in the past as people for years and now the landlord that bought the building is an LLC, and not nice people (there are two in a partnership) and nobody in the town likes them, So, I understand her frustration, but I think she's made a lot of mistakes. She told me she "wants her day in court". I don't think she's 100% right either. I wish she'd handled this differently.

I fully realize that asking for advice on a message board isn't exactly the best place to look for answers. I tried legal stack exchange first, but they're very clear that they don't give legal advice, so that didn't work at all.

I worry about her and what might happen, so I asked here.

My wife works for an eviction agency (it's one of the many things they do) so that is where my advice came from. There was a Covid driven moratorium on evictions even being able to be executed for years (meaning no one can be evicted no matter what). That lifted last year. So you can imagine the backlog as eviction cases that were suspended for years restarted in the courts queue. That's why I said that it will likely take a long time for the courts to be able to get to her case and she should get started now. Also it's standard NJ section 8 law that requires that the party receiving the section 8 monies continue to pay their rent in order to keep their eligibility active. So she needs to pay the rent regardless (not paying rent cause the landlord didn't fix something is not the solution). There is no arbitrariness to that as well. Also the problem with her getting a lawyer is that the lawyers' most people reach out to cost money (and it's not cheap even for civil cases). If she had the money for a lawyer she likely wouldn't be needing section 8 help. That's another problem that folks don't realize. The good news is that most states offer free legal services and advice to low income individuals. It's not quite free lawyers but at least they can help free of charge advising what she should and shouldn't be doing. In NJ she can check out LSNJ.org. They provide advice and support as well as answer questions for low income people in NJ in legal matters. There may be some pro bono (free) opportunities in terms of legal representation but there are restrictions.