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We secured the rights for players we want to join the team in December without having to roster and pay them, maintaining flexibility under the 2nd apron.

nice

Look, Aller is no genius. He just does his job extremely well. What makes him look genial is how much better versed in the new CBA he is compared to the rest of the league.

DE FENSE wrote:Look, Aller is no genius. He just does his job extremely well. What makes him look genial is how much better versed in the new CBA he is compared to the rest of the league.

Genius:
a person who is exceptionally intelligent or creative, either generally or in some particular respect.

I don't know... sounds like a genius to me

But did we get rights to the 2004 Indonesian League MVP out of this?

Knicks currently have 12 full contracts (2 injured, Mitch & Precious), 3 2-ways, Hukporti, Brother-Toppin & McCullar. (McCullar is still out due to injury, not sure his return timetable), but Huks looks like he's going to get converted to a full contract, so that's 13.

I think they have only space to add one of Shamat & Ryan to make the required 14 in, what is it? 23 days left? Probably Ryan with Shamat's injury. But maybe they can add Shamat for the final weeks / last month or two of the season and still avoid the 2nd apron? Anyone know for sure? A partial season contract doesn't count as much on total salary as a full season I think.

This is an interesting dance they're doing. Next off-season will be interesting too. They'll have some space under the 2nd apron, but not a lot.

Luv those Knicks wrote:Knicks currently have 12 full contracts (2 injured, Mitch & Precious), 3 2-ways, Hukporti, Brother-Toppin & McCullar. (McCullar is still out due to injury, not sure his return timetable), but Huks looks like he's going to get converted to a full contract, so that's 13.

I think they have only space to add one of Shamat & Ryan to make the required 14 in, what is it? 23 days left? Probably Ryan with Shamat's injury. But maybe they can add Shamat for the final weeks / last month or two of the season and still avoid the 2nd apron? Anyone know for sure? A partial season contract doesn't count as much on total salary as a full season I think.

This is an interesting dance they're doing. Next off-season will be interesting too. They'll have some space under the 2nd apron, but not a lot.

Teams are allowed 15 players.

Richard444444444444444444444444 and BXKL;ASDJL;FSJL covered this in the trade thread, that they'll probably sign Ryan, on the last day Knicks can carry this few, and then:

Richard4444 wrote:

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:

Richard4444 wrote:
I was thinking about this strategy. The goal would be to sign a 15th vet min guy around March when the cap hit would be small because is pro rata.

However, I do not think signing Shamet in February/March would be the best idea.

I was hoping we could sign a bought-out center like Holmes, Landale, or Bagley.

That's possible. However by, for example, 24th Feb or beginning of March the Knicks should have a better idea of what they have in Mitch and Hukporti (assuming they haven't traded Mitch by that point). I'm quite bullish on Hukporti .. so if he does pan out a bought-out center wouldn't be that high priority unless Mitch is traded.

Yes. If Huk pans out and Mitch gets healthy until 24th Feb, another center would not be a priority.

However, the Front Office may have a verbal agreement with Shamet for the 15th spot since we choose him in the G league draft.

love it!

thebuzzardman wrote:

Luv those Knicks wrote:Knicks currently have 12 full contracts (2 injured, Mitch & Precious), 3 2-ways, Hukporti, Brother-Toppin & McCullar. (McCullar is still out due to injury, not sure his return timetable), but Huks looks like he's going to get converted to a full contract, so that's 13.

I think they have only space to add one of Shamat & Ryan to make the required 14 in, what is it? 23 days left? Probably Ryan with Shamat's injury. But maybe they can add Shamat for the final weeks / last month or two of the season and still avoid the 2nd apron? Anyone know for sure? A partial season contract doesn't count as much on total salary as a full season I think.

This is an interesting dance they're doing. Next off-season will be interesting too. They'll have some space under the 2nd apron, but not a lot.

Teams are allowed 15 players.

Richard444444444444444444444444 and BXKL;ASDJL;FSJL covered this in the trade thread, that they'll probably sign Ryan, on the last day Knicks can carry this few, and then:

Richard4444 wrote:

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:That's possible. However by, for example, 24th Feb or beginning of March the Knicks should have a better idea of what they have in Mitch and Hukporti (assuming they haven't traded Mitch by that point). I'm quite bullish on Hukporti .. so if he does pan out a bought-out center wouldn't be that high priority unless Mitch is traded.

Yes. If Huk pans out and Mitch gets healthy until 24th Feb, another center would not be a priority.

However, the Front Office may have a verbal agreement with Shamet for the 15th spot since we choose him in the G league draft.

Yes, teams can carry 15 players and 3 two-ways (I think that's right on the two ways)

But when I said 14, above, my point was, teams are required to carry 14 contracts, but they can go 28 days before they do that, that gives teams time to figure out their rosters and lets them keep one spot open.

Knicks currently have 12 and the season began on the 22nd (currently 5 days ago), so the Knicks have 23 days to add 2 players to their full season roster. So, in 23 days, NY will be required to have 14 guys on full contracts. They might never sign #15 because they want to avoid the 2nd apron.

I assume those 2 spots will go to Matt Ryan and Hukporti. Prior to his injury, one of those spots was probably going to Shamat. As for Hukporti, I don't think he was a guarantee a week ago, but I think he's played his way into getting a full contract.

As far as the 2nd apron goes, the Knicks can add 1 vet minimum (Shamat or Ryan), and convert one of their 2nd round pick two-ways, but they can't add two vet minimum deals without going over, which they want to avoid. That's why I was wondering about the timing and waiting. If they add Shamat late enough in the year, That might still avoid the 2nd Apron and give them another contract to trade in the off-season. . . but I'm not sure that works under the Apron. That was my question.

Shamat and Matt Ryan together are a little redundant and might not work at all under the 2nd apron at all, unless they do anohter move to make some cap space. Knicks are keeping their options open, getting both of those guys on their g-league team.

Edit, I see Richard covered it.

My question is still, if they sign a minimum contract in March, will they still be under the 2nd apron or will that put them over, granted the cap hit is lower, but they're right up against the ceiling. Maybe the answer is yes, but I won't be convinced until I see a cap wizard break down the exact numbers.

Luv those Knicks wrote:

thebuzzardman wrote:

Luv those Knicks wrote:Knicks currently have 12 full contracts (2 injured, Mitch & Precious), 3 2-ways, Hukporti, Brother-Toppin & McCullar. (McCullar is still out due to injury, not sure his return timetable), but Huks looks like he's going to get converted to a full contract, so that's 13.

I think they have only space to add one of Shamat & Ryan to make the required 14 in, what is it? 23 days left? Probably Ryan with Shamat's injury. But maybe they can add Shamat for the final weeks / last month or two of the season and still avoid the 2nd apron? Anyone know for sure? A partial season contract doesn't count as much on total salary as a full season I think.

This is an interesting dance they're doing. Next off-season will be interesting too. They'll have some space under the 2nd apron, but not a lot.

Teams are allowed 15 players.

Richard444444444444444444444444 and BXKL;ASDJL;FSJL covered this in the trade thread, that they'll probably sign Ryan, on the last day Knicks can carry this few, and then:

Richard4444 wrote:
Yes. If Huk pans out and Mitch gets healthy until 24th Feb, another center would not be a priority.

However, the Front Office may have a verbal agreement with Shamet for the 15th spot since we choose him in the G league draft.

Yes, teams can carry 15 players and 3 two-ways (I think that's right on the two ways)

But when I said 14, above, my point was, teams are required to carry 14 contracts, but they can go 28 days before they do that, that gives teams time to figure out their rosters and lets them keep one spot open.

Knicks currently have 12 and the season began on the 22nd (currently 5 days ago), so the Knicks have 23 days to add 2 players to their full season roster. So, in 23 days, NY will be required to have 14 guys on full contracts. They might never sign #15 because they want to avoid the 2nd apron.

I assume those 2 spots will go to Matt Ryan and Hukporti. Prior to his injury, one of those spots was probably going to Shamat. As for Hukporti, I don't think he was a guarantee a week ago, but I think he's played his way into getting a full contract.

As far as the 2nd apron goes, the Knicks can add 1 vet minimum (Shamat or Ryan), and convert one of their 2nd round pick two-ways, but they can't add two vet minimum deals without going over, which they want to avoid. That's why I was wondering about the timing and waiting. If they add Shamat late enough in the year, That might still avoid the 2nd Apron and give them another contract to trade in the off-season. . . but I'm not sure that works under the Apron. That was my question.

Shamat and Matt Ryan together are a little redundant and might not work at all under the 2nd apron at all, unless they do anohter move to make some cap space. Knicks are keeping their options open, getting both of those guys on their g-league team.

Edit, I see Richard covered it.

My question is still, if they sign a minimum contract in March, will they still be under the 2nd apron or will that put them over, granted the cap hit is lower, but they're right up against the ceiling. Maybe the answer is yes, but I won't be convinced until I see a cap wizard break down the exact numbers.

I went through the number in the Trade thread - unfortunately the board only allows limited nested qouting and that one was cut off in thebuzzardman's post. I'll quote here in an instant, with a couple of details added.

One quick point first about roster sizes:

CBA 2023, ARTICLE XXIX, Section 2(b) wrote:Notwithstanding Section 2(a), during the Regular Season a Team
may have:
(i)
Twelve (12) or thirteen (13) players, in aggregate, on its
Active List and Inactive List for no more than (A) two (2)
consecutive weeks at a time, and (B) a total of twenty-eight
(28) days; and

.. so the Knicks need to have 14 (or 15) players on the roster at the end of two weeks, not 28 days.

Thus...

2nd apron space: $3,579,479

Rookie min: $1,157,153, Rookie min minus first 2 weeks: $1,064,049. Saving: $93,104

2 year vet min: $2,087,519, 2 year vet min minus first 2 weeks: $1,919,558. Saving: $167,961

Total saved if 1 rookie + 1 vet: $261,065.

Balance available: $595,872 ... = 49 days of vet min contract .. signing possible on 24th February

The saved money from the first two weeks of the season amounts to an additional 22 days of vet min contract available. Earliest vet min signing available without the saving would have been 18th March.

Total saved if 2 rookies: $186,208. Balance available: $1,451,381 ... = 120 days of vet min contract .. signing possible on 15th December.

[edit] For completeness, if the Knicks sign 1 rookie min (presumably Hukporti) and one vet min (maybe Ryan) on 6th November then there is space for 89 days of a further rookie min deal (eg, McCullars) .. so further rookie min signing possible on 15th January.

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:

Luv those Knicks wrote:

thebuzzardman wrote:
Teams are allowed 15 players.

Richard444444444444444444444444 and BXKL;ASDJL;FSJL covered this in the trade thread, that they'll probably sign Ryan, on the last day Knicks can carry this few, and then:

Yes, teams can carry 15 players and 3 two-ways (I think that's right on the two ways)

But when I said 14, above, my point was, teams are required to carry 14 contracts, but they can go 28 days before they do that, that gives teams time to figure out their rosters and lets them keep one spot open.

Knicks currently have 12 and the season began on the 22nd (currently 5 days ago), so the Knicks have 23 days to add 2 players to their full season roster. So, in 23 days, NY will be required to have 14 guys on full contracts. They might never sign #15 because they want to avoid the 2nd apron.

I assume those 2 spots will go to Matt Ryan and Hukporti. Prior to his injury, one of those spots was probably going to Shamat. As for Hukporti, I don't think he was a guarantee a week ago, but I think he's played his way into getting a full contract.

As far as the 2nd apron goes, the Knicks can add 1 vet minimum (Shamat or Ryan), and convert one of their 2nd round pick two-ways, but they can't add two vet minimum deals without going over, which they want to avoid. That's why I was wondering about the timing and waiting. If they add Shamat late enough in the year, That might still avoid the 2nd Apron and give them another contract to trade in the off-season. . . but I'm not sure that works under the Apron. That was my question.

Shamat and Matt Ryan together are a little redundant and might not work at all under the 2nd apron at all, unless they do anohter move to make some cap space. Knicks are keeping their options open, getting both of those guys on their g-league team.

Edit, I see Richard covered it.

My question is still, if they sign a minimum contract in March, will they still be under the 2nd apron or will that put them over, granted the cap hit is lower, but they're right up against the ceiling. Maybe the answer is yes, but I won't be convinced until I see a cap wizard break down the exact numbers.

I went through the number in the Trade thread - unfortunately the board only allows limited nested qouting and that one was cut off in thebuzzardman's post. I'll quote here in an instant, with a couple of details added.

One quick point first about roster sizes:

CBA 2023, ARTICLE XXIX, Section 2(b) wrote:Notwithstanding Section 2(a), during the Regular Season a Team
may have:
(i)
Twelve (12) or thirteen (13) players, in aggregate, on its
Active List and Inactive List for no more than (A) two (2)
consecutive weeks at a time, and (B) a total of twenty-eight
(28) days; and

.. so the Knicks need to have 14 (or 15) players on the roster at the end of two weeks, not 28 days.

Thus...

2nd apron space: $3,579,479

Rookie min: $1,157,153, Rookie min minus first 2 weeks: $1,064,049. Saving: $93,104

2 year vet min: $2,087,519, 2 year vet min minus first 2 weeks: $1,919,558. Saving: $167,961

Total saved if 1 rookie + 1 vet: $261,065.

Balance available: $595,872 ... = 49 days of vet min contract .. signing possible on 24th February

The saved money from the first two weeks of the season amounts to an additional 22 days of vet min contract available. Earliest vet min signing available without the saving would have been 18th March.

Total saved if 2 rookies: $186,208. Balance available: $1,451,381 ... = 120 days of vet min contract .. signing possible on 15th December.

[edit] For completeness, if the Knicks sign 1 rookie min (presumably Hukporti) and one vet min (maybe Ryan) on 6th November then there is space for 89 days of a further rookie min deal (eg, McCullars) .. so further rookie min signing possible on 15th January.

Thanks. RealGM cut off this important part.

I'm 100% sure the Knicks FO/Aller has game planned all these scenarios, to include ones where some minor trade takes place (like Sims) etc.

McCullars is probably a USA version of a Euro stash player, a way for the Knicks to take a flyer on a high level prospect who fell due to injuries, but he gets a year to recover, the Knicks get a year of him not on the books, and in effect he's like another draft pick, but next year, when he's healthy.

Somehow, the plan feels like Huk, Ryan, and now one more player, whoever they think they need for bench insurance for the playoff run.

Maybe Shamet, out of kindness, building guard depth.

Gotta lock in Huk. Guy is genuinely good

Aller has done a lot of great things. It’s interesting this is what gets him a thread calling him a genius.

WargamesX wrote:Aller has done a lot of great things. It’s interesting this is what gets him a thread calling him a genius.

I wouldn't call this being a genius. However, it does seem much more creative than most FOs are achieving, both the planned stuff and, for example, the flexible wheeling and dealing on draft nights.

I once saw Brock Aller riding a unicycle down Times Square balancing a teapot in his left hand and a bible in his right. He came to a dead stop without placing his feet on the ground and fleeced a three card monte dealer while negotiating the OG trade on his ear pods. The man is a freaking genius.

WargamesX wrote:Aller has done a lot of great things. It’s interesting this is what gets him a thread calling him a genius.

Did u miss the part where it sats “more”?

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
.. so the Knicks need to have 14 (or 15) players on the roster at the end of two weeks, not 28 days.

Thus...

2nd apron space: $3,579,479

Rookie min: $1,157,153, Rookie min minus first 2 weeks: $1,064,049. Saving: $93,104

2 year vet min: $2,087,519, 2 year vet min minus first 2 weeks: $1,919,558. Saving: $167,961

Total saved if 1 rookie + 1 vet: $261,065.

Balance available: $595,872 ... = 49 days of vet min contract .. signing possible on 24th February

The saved money from the first two weeks of the season amounts to an additional 22 days of vet min contract available. Earliest vet min signing available without the saving would have been 18th March.

Total saved if 2 rookies: $186,208. Balance available: $1,451,381 ... = 120 days of vet min contract .. signing possible on 15th December.

[edit] For completeness, if the Knicks sign 1 rookie min (presumably Hukporti) and one vet min (maybe Ryan) on 6th November then there is space for 89 days of a further rookie min deal (eg, McCullars) .. so further rookie min signing possible on 15th January.

That's some seriously impressive number crunching. More detail than I expected.

And I didn't know about the 2 weeks vs 28 days, but it sounds like they just barely have enough room.

I worry about trading Sims, not because he's that good, but because he's depth.

This off-season will be interesting too. The 10% increase in salary buys them some breathing room. Sims, Precious, Payne, all free agents though resigning some or all 3 is possible, but it's too soon to run those numbers.