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Daily News:Isiah phasing out Marbury

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Post#21 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:45 pm

Jamal Crawford would have made a great player in the 90's where the game was all about isolation plays and ability to make tough shots against stalwart defenses. But the name of the game now is consistency in shooting, not ability to hit difficult shots. Jamal's strengths, going 1-on-1 and hitting tough shots, are more of less irrelevent in todays game. This is a common theme in Isiah's whole strategy, and really runs directly against the current that a lot of good teams in this league are abiding by.
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Re: Daily News:Isiah phasing out Marbury 

Post#22 » by djsunyc » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:47 pm

[quote="chitownsports4ever"][/quote]

holy crap...how much is jamal paying you...seriously b/c if there's ever a critique on crawford, about 2-3 posters always run back to the defense.

did i say anything bad about crawford or blamed him in anyway in my post? all i said is that he has carte blanche...can't deny that.
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Post#23 » by moocow007 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 10:06 pm

Dan Z wrote:Marbury has talent...I give him that. One thing that I think is his strength is driving to the basket. The problem with that is he's rarely good at passing out if it isn't working.

Marbury dribbles to half court, puts his head down, and charges toward the rim. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. I don't think it's a move you want to rely on very much.

As for his shot...is it money? He's shooting .42(and .326 from three). It's ok and I guess better than many players on the team(rather have him shoot a three than Q). My point is that I don't blame Isiah for putting Jamal at the point and seeing what happens. At least Jamal is trying and has actually been vocal a bit this year.

Marbury doesn't seem like he really wants to be here anymore.


But it's worked well enough for him to average 20ppg and still also pass for 8apg. I know he has a stigma of being a score only PG but averaging 8apg is no easy feat even for guys that are pass first PG's. That's the rub...he has shown he can be a potent force.

His current shooting percentage really can't be used against him can it?

I think what some people are having a hard time with, and you see it with Curry as well, is that if the guy can't live up to what you expect him to be able to do (based on glimpses or hype or physical skills or what not) then he becomes this huge dissapointment that can't do anything right.

What people tend to miss is that there is a whole shade of grey in there and the goal of a successful organization is to find where in that grey each player can be maximized.

THAT is what is the biggest problem here, more so than Curry not being able to rebound, Marbury not being Nash, Crawford taking too many jumpers when he should be driving to the basket.

Let's come to a bit of realiztion...EVERY team has guys that are good at somethings and bad at other things. The ones that are good at pretty much everything are superstars and they don't grow on trees. So if we can get pass the fact that we don't have superstars then it's rather easy to come to realize that this sum is worse than the individual parts here and that each of these players CAN be more productive if they were in the right situation that emphasis their strengths and have coverage for their weaknesses.

It's not all gloom and doom.
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Post#24 » by Dan Z » Mon Jan 7, 2008 10:27 pm

Moocow007-

I agree...too many people have unrealistic expectations for the players on this team. I wonder if the coaches could some how play up their strengths then it might lead to wins.

I remember Currys last year in Chicago. He started the game but didn't end them. Skiles did a good job of pushing Curry and ended up getting a good season out of him.

Averaging 20 points a game and 8 assists is quite a feat in the NBA but I wonder how many wins that lead too? I'd have to go back and look... but hasn't Marbury typically been on losing teams? Teams that he's suppose to lead (at least as point guard)?

I agree that he can still ball and should be used. I'm just not sure how. Having him run to the basket on nearly every possession would be too predictable and risky.
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Post#25 » by blueNorange » Mon Jan 7, 2008 10:38 pm

On most teams, Crawful is a 6th man.
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Re: Daily News:Isiah phasing out Marbury 

Post#26 » by KnicksScholar24 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:30 pm

TKF wrote:excellent post.


I doubt that.
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Post#27 » by sims » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:46 pm

Dan Z wrote:Marbury doesn't seem like he really wants to be here anymore.


i think the issue is that marbury's heart really isn't in playing basketball competitively anymore. it just doesn't seem like he wants it anymore. he got what he wanted out of it - money - and he's just going through the motions.
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Post#28 » by BBALLER4FR » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:56 pm

sims wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



i think the issue is that marbury's heart really isn't in playing basketball competitively anymore. it just doesn't seem like he wants it anymore. he got what he wanted out of it - money - and he's just going through the motions.


That's absurd and you know it.
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Post#29 » by I_Love_NYK » Tue Jan 8, 2008 12:00 am

Mardy Collins is gonna average 10 Assits a game.
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Post#30 » by moocow007 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 12:06 am

sims wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



i think the issue is that marbury's heart really isn't in playing basketball competitively anymore. it just doesn't seem like he wants it anymore. he got what he wanted out of it - money - and he's just going through the motions.


I don't buy that. Marbury might be many things but he's always been someone thats very proud of what he does especially when he's on the floor. It's his pride that has gotten him in more trouble than it's worth (from blocking out lesser teammates to the "I'm the best PG" comment). If anything, Marbury's current lethargic play is based on IMO a personal battle with Isiah Thomas where his pride is probably telling to him spite the hand that feeds him. And it really started with Larry Brown. I do believe that if the reigns were open and he had the opportunity (i.e. he didn't feel like the step child) that he'd be back close to his 20/8 Starbury self...for good or bad.
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Post#31 » by moocow007 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 12:07 am

I_Love_NYK wrote:Mardy Collins is gonna average 10 Assits a game.


Sure if the Knicks send him down to D-League.
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Post#32 » by god shammgod » Tue Jan 8, 2008 12:15 am

moocow007 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Sure if the Knicks send him down to D-League.


which is where he'll be once his rookie contract is up
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Post#33 » by Jemini80 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 1:16 am

Marbury's problem is that he is a selfish player playing the most selfless position on the court. In all his statements it is always about HIM and never about the TEAM he is on. it is always I'm the best this, I'm the best that.

i still do not understand how you guys ever accepted him in the first place with all the **** he talked about the Knicks and more specifically Charlie Ward when he went to the Nets.

newsflash Marbury, Ward and Childs are both better PGs than you and Ward was a better shooter. You were just far better at being selfish.
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Post#34 » by moocow007 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:05 am

Jemini80 wrote:Marbury's problem is that he is a selfish player playing the most selfless position on the court. In all his statements it is always about HIM and never about the TEAM he is on. it is always I'm the best this, I'm the best that.

i still do not understand how you guys ever accepted him in the first place with all the **** he talked about the Knicks and more specifically Charlie Ward when he went to the Nets.

newsflash Marbury, Ward and Childs are both better PGs than you and Ward was a better shooter. You were just far better at being selfish.


Let's not get carried away. If Ward and Childs were both better PG's than Marbury they'd have been making Marbury's salary. Ward and Childs were on better Knick teams than Marbury...far better...but they were not better players.
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Post#35 » by Jemini80 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:29 am

better pg not better player. Marbury is an undersized SG just like Ben Gordon.
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Post#36 » by KnicksGadfly » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:32 am

Nah Marbs hasn't been scoring lately, and one of Curry's proponents last year. Marbs is not that mature a person though...and you have to wonder, considering that at age 30, you would think someone would have grown up by then. I think he was scapegoated unfairly, however.
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Post#37 » by CrazyEyes » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:35 am

moocow007 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Let's not get carried away. If Ward and Childs were both better PG's than Marbury they'd have been making Marbury's salary.


I don't think you can equate contract size to talent. Marbury got his contract when teams were overspending like crazy -- Phoenix regretted the extension and traded him. Not a huge endorsement of his talent. The only thing his contract says is he was more marketable than Ward & Childs. I would agree Marbury is a better SG than either of them but definitely not a better PG. Ward was great at feeding the post and played great defense. That's what you want from a PG -- not 20PPG of selfish offensive play.
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Post#38 » by I_Love_NYK » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:50 am

Jamal has been Isiah's pet, and he does not get penalized for taking a bad jumper, dribbling too much or not keeping up with his man on defense. He is Isiah's pet.
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Post#39 » by EL CABRITO » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:00 am

Well we all know what the price was (is) when you have Steph on your team. He single handledly destroyed The Knicks. I thought it couldn't be done but somehow we're worse off in every way possible.
I don't even have it in me to watch us lose when we play :(
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