Post: Isiah turned down Balkman and Robinson for Artest

[gavran]

-= original quote snipped =-



green font?

Unnecessary, since it was clearly a sarcasm.

[moocow007]

I can't believe people are actually talking about the Hughes deal. That deal is a joke and Isiah knows it. If they want to get rid of Hughes so bad and want Crawford in return...I'd consider it if they took on Zach as well in exchange for some expirings.

Something like this-

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

...and their first rounder this year. They probably balk at giving up the first rounder though.

What do you mean. Larry Hughes is a great defensive player (back in 2004)!!! Crawford sucks. The Knicks should be giving Cleveland a couple of 1st rounders and David Lee to take Crawford off our hands.

Seriously though, anyone who thinks the Knicks should trade Crawford for Hughes has: a) just gotten a frontal lobotomy, b) should get a frontal lobotomy, c) is James Dolan's cousin, d) has their mom and dad calling each other brother and sister, e) all of the above.

[truth serum]

Ohhh, ohhh I got it guys!!! I got the perfect solution!!!! Trade everyone on this team for draft picks, 1st round, 2nd round, 3rd round, it don't matter. Then we draft the perfect PG, the perfect SG, the perfect SF, the perfect PF and the perfect C and we're done. Sheer brilliance I tell ya!!! And to think we've had to suffer all these years when it was that simple.

Actually....you can joke all you want...but it kinda was that simple. Okay, maybe you can't call it simple....but think about what our lottery picks have been over the past 6 or so years. Sweetney and Frye. We traded so many other valuable picks...and on top of that...struggled to finish 12th and 13th in the east every year to boot. If we had just let contracts expire, swallowed some crow and basically tanked all of those years while keeping our picks....God only knows how good this team could have looked right now considering how many impact players have come out since then. We'd also be under the cap right now instead of trying to unload terrible contracts that we JUST traded for THIS SUMMER!

Like I said, it's easy to make a joke about it but can you honestly say Isiah's plan worked out for the better? Would we not have been in a much better position had we taken the other route? I think that when people are talking about trading for expirings and picks...they aren't saying "hey, this is a simple and easy plan to win a championship". They're saying "it's an infinitely better plan than we have right now....we should have been doing it all along....and we're willing to wait so lets just finally do it".

[knicks742]

-= original quote snipped =-



Actually....you can joke all you want...but it kinda was that simple. Okay, maybe you can't call it simple....but think about what our lottery picks have been over the past 6 or so years. Sweetney and Frye. We traded so many other valuable picks...and on top of that...struggled to finish 12th and 13th in the east every year to boot. If we had just let contracts expire, swallowed some crow and basically tanked all of those years while keeping our picks....God only knows how good this team could have looked right now considering how many impact players have come out since then. We'd also be under the cap right now instead of trying to unload terrible contracts that we JUST traded for THIS SUMMER!

Like I said, it's easy to make a joke about it but can you honestly say Isiah's plan worked out for the better? Would we not have been in a much better position had we taken the other route? I think that when people are talking about trading for expirings and picks...they aren't saying "hey, this is a simple and easy plan to win a championship". They're saying "it's an infinitely better plan than we have right now....we should have been doing it all along....and we're willing to wait so lets just finally do it".

Problem is what kind of picks will you get?? We lalready have like 5 prospects that were late first rounders. Are we really going to be able to get top picks, which is where we are going to find the type of guys you want to build aroudn?

[moocow007]

-= original quote snipped =-



Actually....you can joke all you want...but it kinda was that simple. Okay, maybe you can't call it simple....but think about what our lottery picks have been over the past 6 or so years. Sweetney and Frye. We traded so many other valuable picks...and on top of that...struggled to finish 12th and 13th in the east every year to boot.

Like which picks? Thomas has traded 2 picks. Actually only 1 pick was traded, while the other one was swapped. He also acquired 2 picks without giving up any picks that resulted in David Lee and Nate Robinson.

Yes, you can go back to the swap and the pick that Thomas gave up for Curry and say if he took Roy and Noah that they'd be better off. But who's to guarantee that he wouldn't have taken Thaddeus Young and Patrick O'Bryant? If a GM could tell the future (which is part of my point about the "perfect PG, perfect SG, etc.") then 6 other GM's wouldn't have passed on Roy.

And OF COURSE we can even go further back into the Layden days and do the hindsight bit and said that if they didn't deal for McDyess they could have had Amare Stoudemire AND Marcus Camby.

If we had just let contracts expire, swallowed some crow and basically tanked all of those years while keeping our picks....

You mean like teams like the Clippers, Hawks, Bucks, Grizzlies?

God only knows how good this team could have looked right now considering how many impact players have come out since then. We'd also be under the cap right now instead of trying to unload terrible contracts that we JUST traded for THIS SUMMER!

Again, if it was that easy every team would have done it.

Like I said, it's easy to make a joke about it but can you honestly say Isiah's plan worked out for the better? Would we not have been in a much better position had we taken the other route? I think that when people are talking about trading for expirings and picks...they aren't saying "hey, this is a simple and easy plan to win a championship". They're saying "it's an infinitely better plan than we have right now....we should have been doing it all along....and we're willing to wait so lets just finally do it".

Dude, no one is saying Isiah's plan worked. But that doesn't mean any other plan would work any better. Believe it or not there are even worse plans out there.

[Da_Mane_Man]

isiah is finally getting the hang of this

i DO NOT want artest this year. i repeat, i DO NOT want ron artest this year! we would definitely have to give up young guys and he would actually make our team better! i want a top 3 draft pick. why the hell would we wanna screw that up? if the guys we have now start playing well, then so be it, but i don't wanna actually force it (especially if we're giving up young guys). stay put isiah! unless he can unload the big contracts for expirings or draft picks, but no giving up young guys or our own picks!

[Jemini80]

i bet isiah accepts this deal if we win 10 games in a row.

[arenas809]

All these draft geniuses act like that any top 5 pick is a guaranteed superstar.

Get real.

You can get a star talent anywhere in the draft, it is about drafting RIGHT, now about WHERE you draft.

[moocow007]

i bet isiah accepts this deal if we win 10 games in a row.

If the Knicks win 10 games in a row, he might as well, cause it'll be clear that the world will be coming to an end.

[nykfan70]

i bet isiah accepts this deal if we win 10 games in a row.

Well, if we were in a playoff hunt, any one of these deals probably would've happened to make a final playoff push, so I don't know if it's a god send or not that we aren't in the playoff picture, something drastic might've been done.

[gnarlyrun]

I love that Robinson and Balkman are really valuable now to some people. I'd hate to acquire some defense. Yikes.

[Capn'O]

Its usually a good thing when Isiah isnt jumping at deals.

Does anyone think its possible that Dolan has restricted Isiah from making deals?

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU CHANGED YOUR SIG!

I have _no idea_ what this team is ever thinking at any given time but it might actually be the opposite. The rumors are that the Knick brass wants to bring in McGrady once Isiah leaves and that Isiah is currently turning deals down and offering salary dumps. Strange times are afoot.

[Ignitowsky]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'm sorry, but does it occur to anyone that the opening sentence from the Post article is both grammatically and logically f---ed? Why lead with "though?" Doesn't the fact that Thomas is "turning down deals left and right" support his statements that he doesn't want to make a trade? And for the love of god, "there has been various reports"? Have been, Berman, you f---ing no-talent, Marbury jock-riding sad sack. Does the Post simply have no editors? Is this why they can afford to sell their rag for a quarter?

I thought the same thing wshen I read that

As for the "trade" itself, why trade for Artest now ehen he's said tghat he would sign for the MLE to play in NY (next summer)?

Why trade two of our best energy guys and the guy who happens to be our berst 3 point shooter (and tied for 11th in the league for 3pt % among players who have taken 100 or more shots)?

Why give up anything for a guy who is a preoven headcase and who will almost certainly be yet another distraction on a team that already has far too many?

I wouldn't trade Nate for ROn even up right now. At least the kid is trying, he's maturing, he seems to be a good influence on the team, and he's probably our second best pg, maybe our best.

I'll take Ron for the MLE, i don't want to give up ANY young talent for him.

[Synciere]

Ohhh, ohhh I got it guys!!! I got the perfect solution!!!! Trade everyone on this team for draft picks, 1st round, 2nd round, 3rd round, it don't matter. Then we draft the perfect PG, the perfect SG, the perfect SF, the perfect PF and the perfect C and we're done. Sheer brilliance I tell ya!!! And to think we've had to suffer all these years when it was that simple.

That's what I feel like doing whenever I read about some of these trades.

"I'd trade our best guard for a crap contract, just as long as they include a late first rounder!!!"

"Derrick Rose would do wonders for this team!!!"

"Trade the black hole for a guy coming off of two knee surgeries, an underperforming former 7th overall pick, and a future top-32 protected first round pick.."

There have got to be some guys on this team that can become part of a winning team...

[Capn'O]

So I don't really know why we hear daily rumors about all those rejected deals.

I've wondered this myself.

I offer two explanations - either of which are fully open for debate/outright rejection since I don't know what the hell is going on right now.

1) They are being mentioned to demonstrate to the fanbase that our players have garnered interest. To dispell the idea that we are stuck with these guys forever. The leak is coming from Isiah.

2) Somewhat related - there is a power struggle going on at MSG regarding the direction of the team and the overall strategy. One party wants to continue stocking up on name players while the other has a different vision for the team which we can only guess what it is. Isiah is trying to drum up support for his stay by taking the "anti-Isiah" approach to teambuilding.

So either the team is trying to create the perception that things have changed... or the outlook has actually changed.

There are certainly mixed signals coming from the team right now.

[Ignitowsky]

Just another thought about the timing of getting Ron.

If he REALLY wants to be in NY and will REALLY take the MLE (next summer) to be here, we have all the power. If we trade for him now then he's already here, his contract will expire, and if we want to keep him after giving something up for him (insert whatever young talent that you like) we may very well have to give him more than MLE money if he demands it. I'm not sure what his market value will be as a FA, but it's guaranteed to be double the MLE, maybe more.

Think about it. The smartest thing to do now is to do nothing.

[makeitstop]

Credit where credit is due. Zeke is finally playing smart.

Artest isn't enough to get us deep into the playoffs at this point. The Hughes trade idea is asinine.

Stick with what we got, then make deals in the off-season. New York has accepted that this team is going nowhere this season. Let's play the hand we're dealt and see where things land at the end of the season.

[makeitstop]

Just another thought about the timing of getting Ron.

If he REALLY wants to be in NY and will REALLY take the MLE (next summer) to be here, we have all the power. If we trade for him now then he's already here, his contract will expire, and if we want to keep him after giving something up for him (insert whatever young talent that you like) we may very well have to give him more than MLE money if he demands it. I'm not sure what his market value will be as a FA, but it's guaranteed to be double the MLE, maybe more.

Think about it. The smartest thing to do now is to do nothing.

+ 100

[midtown]

If the deal was JUST Balkman and Nate (which doesn't work salary wise anyway), there'd be no reason NOT to do the deal.

i think its all BS. Salaries dont match up

[etopn23]

This team would of made an unbelievable turnaround with Carter/Artest....