I am PISSED OFF! Who's with me?

[StutterStep]

It just dawned on me that in a year where the EAST is weak yet competitive that the NYKnicks are about to win ONLY 33 games ONCE AGAIN!

I mean new GM and Coach who are supposed to be WONDERS of their specific positions. Yet, we are looking to have a worse record than the Nets, Bulls and Bobcats?

Come on, what gives?

[livintoolive]

Well...the players still suck.

[ElMatatan]

for a second this thread was reminding me of those McCain supporters that where on that HBO special...

[Rich2Hassan]

Well, if we still had ZBO & Craw, i believe one of the playoffs sports would have been ours, but thats another story.

[NoLayupRule]

seriously.

weve been competitive most nights, for a change, and have had major injury issue and roster movement not to mention the fact that we've shed like 35mil in salary and starting players for the good of the future

[NyKnicks1714]

It just dawned on me that in a year where the EAST is weak yet competitive that the NYKnicks are about to win ONLY 33 games ONCE AGAIN!

I mean new GM and Coach who are supposed to be WONDERS of their specific positions. Yet, we are looking to have a worse record than the Nets, Bulls and Bobcats?

Come on, what gives?

The plan is 2010, I know you don't agree with it but that is this regime's plan. Why can't you understand that? The goal was never to win as many games as possible the season, that would only be a nice by-product of the long term goal.

Should the 2010 plan fail, then criticize Walsh. You supported Isiah for 3(+) years and he didn't even have a long-term goal.

[NYKnick87]

We still are seeing a lot of the same issues we saw with the Knicks of the past, but the thing is we're no longer paying them boatloads of money and they're a lot younger. This current team is learning a new offense and getting a feel for each other after having been through several roster changes. Maybe at the start of the season playoffs was a possibility, but it's looking less and less likely now. Playoffs or not, we've witnessed plenty of progress this season.

[OoAnd1]

It just dawned on me that in a year where the EAST is weak yet competitive that the NYKnicks are about to win ONLY 33 games ONCE AGAIN!

I mean new GM and Coach who are supposed to be WONDERS of their specific positions. Yet, we are looking to have a worse record than the Nets, Bulls and Bobcats?

Come on, what gives?

Didn't we let go of our three best players early in the year? We were even above .500 for a while...

No Marbury, Crawford, Zach... we couldn't make the playoffs with them.. what makes you think we were gonna make it by swapping them with Duhon, Al, Tim Thomas?

If you weren't listening to me before, when we got rid of those guys.. we called it quits until 2010.

You have to be pretty unrealistic to think the Knicks could improve their FA chances 2 years from now AND improve their playoff chances this year! It was one or the other, Walsh chose 2010. At least Isiah always chose to improve THIS year. Never worked out for him, but I always had hope since he tried.

[TrueWarrior]

Stutter is the typical ultimate impatient short sighted Knicks fan.

Put that in your sig buddy.

BTW, like others have said, it was never about this year, or next year. If you still fail to see this then you must not be that bright. We ARE competitive right now. We may be 10 games under .500, but we're in every game and are fighting. This is after we traded our two high scorers early in the season. Yea Mike should be playing Chandler and Gallo more but we're also trying to up our guy's value to trade them. Its going to take a little bit to completely clean up Isiahs mess. It was never about this year brosef.

Capische?

[magnumt]

Well let me offer some additional insight:

From the Coach/GM perspective, many fans and NBA analysts alike though this would be an abysmal mess to clean up, requiring YEARS to even get off the ground. Walsh has come in and gotten about 80% of the job done in his 1st Year. Also, no one expected a top Coach to join our Team, much less one from the Western Conf. We were able to secure one of the most attractive Coaches to Free Agents.

Now to our "Competitors":

- If I were a fan of the current Bulls, Raptors, or Pacers I'd be worried. The Pacers are like us about 1-2 Years ago. Good talent on paper, aging players, very few young promising talent, and bad contracts. And, I didn't even include the fact that they're too good for a high Lotto pick.

- The Bulls are following Walsh's footsteps and jettisoning their worst contracts, accumulating young talent, while staying as competitive as possible through trades. They have a slightly better future than us with more young prospects.

- The Raps are in limbo. They have enough talent and expectations to have been a top Eastern team for the last 2 Seasons (including this one), but have been a HUGE disappointment. The Coach they had didn't match the style of Players they accumulated. Had they not made the Marion-JO trade for financial reasons, I would've said they're in a horrible situation. They were able to get rid of Ford's bad contract for JO, but lost CV (who's really stepped up his game), to get Ford. They still lack one of their biggest weaknesses for the last few Years: a SG who can create his own shot. They have streaky guys who are at best marginal starters at SG/SF (think Q-Rich on our own Team). They're best young talent outside of Bosh actually is competing with him for the same spot on the floor. Bosh now apparently no longer likes to bang in the Paint, and prefers mid-range jumpers. Bargs', who's probably a better shooter, and is looking to like he'll be the better all around player, can play both the mid-range and long-range Game. Toronto is not a Free Agent friendly city, and they have some tough decisions ahead of them on whether or not to trade Bosh and rebuild fully around Bargs, and a running open-court game.

- The Nets always seem to have promising young players that fail to pan out recently: Antoine Wright, Marcus Williams, Sean Williams, Josh Boone, etc. That's FIVE 1st Rounders. These guys have looked great their first Year, being coveted by many fans from other Teams (see Knicks, Warriors, etc.), but they failed to go any where. Brook Lopez is looking like he might jump that trend, but only time will tell. They have a top notch Guard in Devin Harris, but he's more a scoring Guard than a passer (see Marbury and Billups). They will have great cap room in 2010, and good pieces, but if it pans out remains to be seen.

- The Bobcats are the same they've been since they entered the League, and with a horrible GM in Jordan at the helm, things may get worse. They swap talent for talent each Year. The only good thing they have done was draft DJ Augustine (a move Coach Larry Brown had to beg for), and trade for the #8 Pick (Brandon Wright) for J-Rich (whom they ended up moving for Raja Bell and Boris Diaw). They have yet to find an offensive Big-Man to compliment their Franchise player Okafur. They had a chance last the last 2 Years in signing Eddy Curry, or trading for him before he fell out of favor and stat production in NY. Those two would've been a hell'uva a tandem in Charlotte.

NY has it's way to go, but is more further along than most would've deem possible when the Season ending last Year and Isiah was on the brink of being fired, the Team loaded with malcontents who had horrible contracts, our young talent was being wasted in favor of Isiah "pets", and the atmosphere around MSG was PR nightmare.

[HarthorneWingo]

seriously.

weve been competitive most nights, for a change, and have had major injury issue and roster movement not to mention the fact that we've shed like 35mil in salary and starting players for the good of the future

+1

[Big C]

magnumt, I don't think people thought it would take years to clean up Isiah's mess. Especially since Isiah's main mess was Marbury and every Knicks fan knew that he was coming off the books as well as Malik Rose. Plus fans knew we werre going to have the 6th pick. Fans have been watching the cap before there was even an announcement about a 2010 plan. Curry and Jeffries are the main problems that are left. Most of the Knicks problems were going to expire anyway.

[HarthorneWingo]

Stutter is the typical ultimate impatient short sighted Knicks fan.

Put that in your sig buddy.

BTW, like others have said, it was never about this year, or next year. If you still fail to see this then you must not be that bright. We ARE competitive right now. We may be 10 games under .500, but we're in every game and are fighting. This is after we traded our two high scorers early in the season. Yea Mike should be playing Chandler and Gallo more but we're also trying to up our guy's value to trade them. Its going to take a little bit to completely clean up Isiahs mess. It was never about this year brosef.

Capische?

+1

But I have one question: Is that bra your "warrior" is wearing in your avatar? Or a "manzire" or a "bro"?

[TheBluest]

It just dawned on me that in a year where the EAST is weak yet competitive that the NYKnicks are about to win ONLY 33 games ONCE AGAIN!

I mean new GM and Coach who are supposed to be WONDERS of their specific positions. Yet, we are looking to have a worse record than the Nets, Bulls and Bobcats?

Come on, what gives?

Any GM not named I SAY UGH could have come here and marinated until 2010 it's not like the 4-5yrs of watching from afar didn't provide a proper outlook on things.

WALSHED UP has only acquired one asset towards rebuilding and it's a Bum Asss 2010 second round pick from a team(Denver) that will be pretty good next yr. He gave away 2 young players really for no reason(Balkman and Mardy) who's rookie contracts didn't expire until 2010 so IMO the Denver pick has less value than these two guys combined most certainly and loses out on value compared singularly. He has two assets he put himself into a potential bidding war this summer instead of trying to get value(to rebuild) for at least one of the players. Didn't make any significant moves to help his coach reach the playoffs. Fielded a roster to run on fumes for a long stretch during the season. Selected a player who has some red flags in his abilities and a merky defined role on this team. None of our player's values have increased. Player development has been very questionable all yr. We still suck defensively an issue he never addressed. Didn't acquire any additional picks in the 08 draft. May end up with a pick worse off in the 2009 draft than the teams around us.

The only thing he can really hang is hat on is future payroll and I guess the hiring Susan B. D'AnTony Bennett Salvatore

[duetta]

In for a penny, in for a pound. I'll give both these guys till Summer of 2011 to prove their plan has validity. Not much else we can do at this point.

[TrueWarrior]

Stutter is the typical ultimate impatient short sighted Knicks fan.

Put that in your sig buddy.

BTW, like others have said, it was never about this year, or next year. If you still fail to see this then you must not be that bright. We ARE competitive right now. We may be 10 games under .500, but we're in every game and are fighting. This is after we traded our two high scorers early in the season. Yea Mike should be playing Chandler and Gallo more but we're also trying to up our guy's value to trade them. Its going to take a little bit to completely clean up Isiahs mess. It was never about this year brosef.

Capische?

+1

But I have one question: Is that bra your "warrior" is wearing in your avatar? Or a "manzire" or a "bro"?

Ha. I call it a guinea tee aka wife beater aka SHUTUP!!

[DocZaius]

Walsh wants to tank, D'Antoni is too good of a coach to let that happen.

Either way, we are going to be under the cap in 2010, and that's where the real judgment of these 2 should begin.

[TrueWarrior]

It just dawned on me that in a year where the EAST is weak yet competitive that the NYKnicks are about to win ONLY 33 games ONCE AGAIN!

I mean new GM and Coach who are supposed to be WONDERS of their specific positions. Yet, we are looking to have a worse record than the Nets, Bulls and Bobcats?

Come on, what gives?

Any GM not named I SAY UGH could have come here and marinated until 2010 it's not like the 4-5yrs of watching from afar didn't provide a proper outlook on things.

WALSHED UP has only acquired one asset towards rebuilding and it's a Bum Asss 2010 second round pick from a team(Denver) that will be pretty good next yr. He gave 2 young players(Balkman and Mardy) who's rookie contracts didn't expire until 2010 so IMO the Denver pick has less value than these two guys combined most certainly and loses out on value compared singularly. He has two assets he put himself into a potential bidding war this summer instead of trying to get value(to rebuild) for at least one of the players. DIdn't make any significant moves to help his coach reach the playoffs. Fielded a roster to run on fumes for a long stretch during the season. Selected a player who has some red flags in his abilities and a merky defined role on this team. None of our player's values have increased. Player development has been very questionable all yr. We still suck defensively an issue he never addressed. Didn't acquire any additional picks in the 08 draft. May end up with a pick worse off in the 2009 draft than the teams around us.

The only thing he can really hang is hat on is future payroll and I guess the hiring Susan B. D'AnTony Bennett Salvatore

Again you act like doing these things are so easy.

Teams were offering for Lee and Nate but nothing good, plus they didnt want to take Curry or Jeffries.

Balkman and Mardy? Jesus are we still talking about these scrubs?

What players did you want Walsh to get who expired before 2010 that would have "helped us reach the playoffs"?

We didnt up guys' value? We trade Jamal and Zach when nobody though we could. Jeffries just sucks so upping his value is impossible, Curry is a fat ass who isnt even playing (both Isiah guys), and the rest of the team expires before 2010 so who cares?

Now you're questioning Gallo too?


Man you guys have the quintessential glass-is-half-empty attitude towards everything. My main gripe with you Bluest is that you expect Walsh to turn this sh*t around in 1 season or something. The guy has done ALOT already and is only going to do more, even before 2010. So, as always, i dont get your beef.

[Rich2Hassan]

It just dawned on me that in a year where the EAST is weak yet competitive that the NYKnicks are about to win ONLY 33 games ONCE AGAIN!

I mean new GM and Coach who are supposed to be WONDERS of their specific positions. Yet, we are looking to have a worse record than the Nets, Bulls and Bobcats?

Come on, what gives?

Any GM not named I SAY UGH could have come here and marinated until 2010 it's not like the 4-5yrs of watching from afar didn't provide a proper outlook on things.

WALSHED UP has only acquired one asset towards rebuilding and it's a Bum Asss 2010 second round pick from a team(Denver) that will be pretty good next yr. He gave away 2 young players really for no reason(Balkman and Mardy) who's rookie contracts didn't expire until 2010 so IMO the Denver pick has less value than these two guys combined most certainly and loses out on value compared singularly. He has two assets he put himself into a potential bidding war this summer instead of trying to get value(to rebuild) for at least one of the players. Didn't make any significant moves to help his coach reach the playoffs. Fielded a roster to run on fumes for a long stretch during the season. Selected a player who has some red flags in his abilities and a merky defined role on this team. None of our player's values have increased. Player development has been very questionable all yr. We still suck defensively an issue he never addressed. Didn't acquire any additional picks in the 08 draft. May end up with a pick worse off in the 2009 draft than the teams around us.

The only thing he can really hang is hat on is future payroll and I guess the hiring Susan B. D'AnTony Bennett Salvatore

I Hate you as a poster. but i must admit, some of your nicknames are funny.

[StutterStep]

Well let me offer some additional insight:

From the Coach/GM perspective, many fans and NBA analysts alike though this would be an abysmal mess to clean up, requiring YEARS to even get off the ground. Walsh has come in and gotten about 80% of the job done in his 1st Year. Also, no one expected a top Coach to join our Team, much less one from the Western Conf. We were able to secure one of the most attractive Coaches to Free Agents.

- The Raps are in limbo. Bosh now apparently no longer likes to bang in the Paint, and prefers mid-range jumpers.

- The Nets always seem to have promising young players that fail to pan out recently..They have a top notch Guard in Devin Harris, but he's more a scoring Guard than a passer (see Marbury and Billups). They will have great cap room in 2010, and good pieces, but if it pans out remains to be seen.

- The only good thing they have done was draft DJ Augustine (a move Coach Larry Brown had to beg for), and trade for the #8 Pick (Brandon Wright) for J-Rich (whom they ended up moving for Raja Bell and Boris Diaw).

NY has it's way to go, but is more further along than most would've deem possible when the Season ending last Year...

Even though you didn't say whether you were pissed, this is the first post really worth replying to in this thread. You laid out what you thought of the competition, and I'm pretty much on board with your analysis, except that of the Bulls.

Look at the criteria, you just laid out for two of the teams, I targeted. The Nets are in a better position than us, for one simple reason: the coach and GM are on the same page. Even though they have a 2010 plan, they are genuinely trying to compete and win night in and night out. You don't see them making trades to be less competitive to simply get under the cap.

The Raptors are funny but we are funnier, as our 2010 plan was to target Bosh. So to do that, we gut our roster and definitely lose Lee, right? Because those two cannot play together.

You say that 80% of the job is done, but I'm not sure what that means. If we were on our way to around 25 wins while only playing the young guys, I would agree. My point is if Walsh is really on 2010 and we only have a draft pick this year, then what is this song and dance for? He should have gotten the coach on board and tanked from jump. I mean the coach did banish the highest paid and possibly best player...

...which was followed by the GM shipping out the next two best offensive talents, right? Part of my being pissed deal with the uncertainty on their part.