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Around the NBA 3/3

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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#61 » by TKF » Wed Mar 4, 2009 8:33 pm

TheBluest wrote:
TKF wrote:
aluball17 wrote:TKF, I understand your point about how could anyone know where your team is going to be in 3 years but the absolute worst place to be in the NBA is competing for a playoff spot with no emerging star and no cap flexibility.

You put yourself in a situation where to get that star you will have to gamble on someone else's malcontent.

Charlotte is going to need a stroke of luck in the lotto or a major lopsided trade to be a championship contender and all of that = limited hope for fans.



that may be the case, but brown will keep them working hard and playing hard in the meantime.. the bobcats did well in last years draft, they will have a pick this year, and next, so they can just add to what they have.... Yea, it is going to take some luck, but what can you do now.. okafor and wallace were signed before brown came along... I am just throwing this out there, but what would the blazers do for a guy like okafor and an expiring contract and good player in raja bell? would they do, oden and bayless or Fernandez, plus cap fillers? would they do a resigned LA and outlaw? I mean there are options out there when you have a guy like okafor who is still young, a great teamate and a elite shotblocker and rebounder....



Hey TKF did you see my post towards the end of page 3? I thought you have some input on it.



wow, you KO'd that, like mosley did margaritto.. :lol: I am going to comment on that right now....
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#62 » by LJ4pointplay » Wed Mar 4, 2009 8:38 pm

I've always been a Larry Brown fan, and was on his side when he was here.. thought running him out was a BIG mistake, and I agree with just about everything TKF has to say about the Bobcats. But TKF, I really need to ask you about that trade idea above.. You think Okafor is worth more than Oden? Okafor is one of my favorite players in the league, and I know you are down on Oden.. but I kind of view Oden's basement around Okafor.. and his ceiling pretty high.. Zo level at the least. You really don't think Oden will be a double double guy with high fg% and the ability to anchor a top defense?
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#63 » by TKF » Wed Mar 4, 2009 8:51 pm

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This is where I'll give WALSHED UP credit. He wouldn't allow any player to usurp his coach. Matter of fact he by nature kind of commands respect without the grandiose persona. His presence alone is enough at times. He got behind Pringles since day one as far as chain of command even to a degree of backing him without having full information on matters. That's when you know as a player where the chain of authority is. LB didn't 1/100th of this kind of support when here. Now they haven't been quite on the same page in other matters.


exactly, good post bluest... All Isiah had to do was tell steph, Brown is in charged... end of story. Instead he remained quiet, allowed them to publicly feud. His silence pretty much empowered steph to continue ignoring brown and sent a bad message to the team.. At that point, I think brown knew his tenure here was over as long as Isiah was in charge, so he did the only thing left to do, and that was to attempt to usurp Isiah, only brown underestimated Dolans loyalty to Ishiah as well as his level of stupidity as an owner..



Yep and to hone in on this point again WALSHED UP backed Pringles on the Marbury situation even though he wasn't there and had no idea who was telling the truth or who was lying. He backed his coach first and foremost. Now he could have done Marbury wrong in matters in that he really is trusting one man's word over the other but based on the principle of respecting authority and team commitment he made it clear who he'd support and what he expected of his players.

I think I SAY UGH was relishing the fact Marbury was feuding with LB because LB disrespected his roster early on and he was messing with his prize acquisition. LB has no feuding with Jordan. They both have publicly backed each other and make no mistake about it, no relationship is ever perfect. I don't think Jordan and LB agree on every matter but they work together for what they ultimately both want and that's for the Bobcats to be a competitive, respected, basketball team with aspirations of making the playoffs.

Felton isn't going to Jordan crying about how LB is taking his manhood and crying about why his name was constantly in trade rumors. Nope the young fella straps em up every night and goes balls to the walls for his coach, his GM, and his teammates. Same with D.J. No crying over back and forth minutes... high minute... low minute games, he straps em up and bust his Asss every minute he's out there. What about Bell and Diaw did they come there and try use their recent swag success and lord it over a bunch of players who have experienced a lot of losing? Nope they came there as solid vets to help their club win games, matter of fact Bell and Diaw have both commented the Bobcats already had leaders before they arrived in Felton and Wallace and all they wanted to do is come in and help.

Unlike here you had a GM trade for vets who'd come in and disrespect the coach like Jalen and Francis... refusing to practice, crying over playing time and role, quietly asking for trades, and refusing to do the things necessary as professionals all the while the GM doing nothing, handing out no disciplinary action. No words of encouragement in the press for the coach to hang in there he'll help right the ship. Nope he'd either send players home because they had other underlying issues that he didn't want to come out to embarrass him as a GM or he'd go to the owner to discuss buyouts. In Charlotte there's respect and that speaks volumes of LB since most feel he's running the full show in general and this while they're losing more than they're winning.



Great points you made.. First of all, you are right, coach and Gm don't always have to agree, but their goals need to be the same. the point you made about felton was dead on.. Brown came in and Drafted a PG, now felton could have taken that as a threat or as motivation. So far it seems to have motivated him, now he will play himself into a nice contract this summer or next when he becomes a Free agent... No whining, no agendas for felton, just strap em up and ball.. when you are on a team that is in the lottery year after year, no one should feel safe..

Same with wallace. Brown talked about trading him from day 1.. what has wallace done, he has averaged 16/7 with 2 assists and is on pace to play more games than he did last year, and would have shattered that, had he not gotten hurt by bynum. Just came in and balled.

the same with Bell and diaw. good players, good guys, they came in not looking to be the "man", but to lead by fitting in?

Brown never got the support here he deserved and it irks me that NY fans trash this guy as if he was the reason we were bad. I will tell you this, Dantoni, Phil jackson, Red auerbach, Pat riley would have never survived under those circumstances. Isiah and dolan were just running this franchise into the ground and they both were cosigning each others BS!!!

Again, I hate to say this as a knicks fan, because I don't root for other teams we are in competition with, but I am happy to see brown doing well in charlotte, many said they would fail this year, but honestly, their improvement has been as good as ours.. I watched quite a few of their games this year and i tell you this, they could easily have won 4 more games they lost just due to inexperience before they got bell and diaw, games I felt they would have won with them.. while we lost games due to the stupidity of our vets.. IE: Free candy slapping boards and ish..... geez.... good to see the cats playing well, good for brown.. we ran that guy out of here and he didn't trash this organization when he had every right to...

Nope he'd either send players home because they had other underlying issues that he didn't want to come out to embarrass him as a GM or he'd go to the owner to discuss buyouts


another big problem of Isiah the GM and Isiah the coach.... Agenda driven to the max!!
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#64 » by TKF » Wed Mar 4, 2009 8:58 pm

LJ4pointplay wrote:I've always been a Larry Brown fan, and was on his side when he was here.. thought running him out was a BIG mistake, and I agree with just about everything TKF has to say about the Bobcats. But TKF, I really need to ask you about that trade idea above.. You think Okafor is worth more than Oden? Okafor is one of my favorite players in the league, and I know you are down on Oden.. but I kind of view Oden's basement around Okafor.. and his ceiling pretty high.. Zo level at the least. You really don't think Oden will be a double double guy with high fg% and the ability to anchor a top defense?



well here is my problem with oden. first of all, i don't think he is that good of a player. Second, I don't think he will ever be healthy. I think he is a walking injury.. with that said, if he gets it all together, with his skillset or lackthereof, I see him as a potential 14/10 guy, and that is if all things go right for him...

Okafor from day 1 in the NBA has been a double double guy..
15/10
13/10
14/11
13/10
and this year 14/10

and he will get you 2 blocks and a whole lot of changed shots along with good defense.. plus he has been healthy.. with the exception of his 2nd year in the leauge, he gives you 67+ games every year..

plus okafor doesn't even get players run for him really. A few post plays here and there, but he has a nice bank shot, a baseline jumper, he can do some things with the ball... If charlotte wanted to move him, I can't see a team that would not bite... portland may never move oden, but who knows.. Okafor would come in and give them what pryzbilla gives them, and more...
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#65 » by RutgersBJJ » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:07 pm

Oden's ligaments will never be healthy because they are too weak from HGH abuse (which is how he got so freaking huge). That is why he will never be healthy, it is why Braylon Edwards will never be healthy, and it is why Sheldon Williams sucks. HGH abuse. HGH is fine and very helpful, until you abuse it and use an extremely high level of it.

and on Larry Brown....It is the GM's job to get players that fit in with the coach. If the GM and coach differ on philosophy then the coach never should have been hired in the first place. Michael Jordan is a terrible GM, but he respects Brown, and knows that the Bobcats will be successful if h listens to Brown. They have the pieces in place right now to have a pretty darn good team in the future. Bell fits Brown's model, as does Okafor. They may not have a superstar, but Brown has been extremely competitive with teams in Detroit and Indiana that had no true superstar. The biggest thing that no one is talking about this year, is that Okafor has developed a lot, and he actually has post moves now.
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#66 » by TheBluest » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:11 pm

TKF wrote:Great points you made.. First of all, you are right, coach and Gm don't always have to agree, but their goals need to be the same. the point you made about felton was dead on.. Brown came in and Drafted a PG, now felton could have taken that as a threat or as motivation. So far it seems to have motivated him, now he will play himself into a nice contract this summer or next when he becomes a Free agent... No whining, no agendas for felton, just strap em up and ball.. when you are on a team that is in the lottery year after year, no one should feel safe..

Same with wallace. Brown talked about trading him from day 1.. what has wallace done, he has averaged 16/7 with 2 assists and is on pace to play more games than he did last year, and would have shattered that, had he not gotten hurt by bynum. Just came in and balled.

the same with Bell and diaw. good players, good guys, they came in not looking to be the "man", but to lead by fitting in?

Brown never got the support here he deserved and it irks me that NY fans trash this guy as if he was the reason we were bad. I will tell you this, Dantoni, Phil jackson, Red auerbach, Pat riley would have never survived under those circumstances. Isiah and dolan were just running this franchise into the ground and they both were cosigning each others BS!!!

Again, I hate to say this as a knicks fan, because I don't root for other teams we are in competition with, but I am happy to see brown doing well in charlotte, many said they would fail this year, but honestly, their improvement has been as good as ours.. I watched quite a few of their games this year and i tell you this, they could easily have won 4 more games they lost just due to inexperience before they got bell and diaw, games I felt they would have won with them.. while we lost games due to the stupidity of our vets.. IE: Free candy slapping boards and ish..... geez.... good to see the cats playing well, good for brown.. we ran that guy out of here and he didn't trash this organization when he had every right to...

Nope he'd either send players home because they had other underlying issues that he didn't want to come out to embarrass him as a GM or he'd go to the owner to discuss buyouts


another big problem of Isiah the GM and Isiah the coach.... Agenda driven to the max!!


Wallace was another good example heck I bet if you go to the Charlotte Observer online to the Sports section you'll see on the main page Bobcats to move Wallace in the summer. I mean his name came up over and over and over. The dude even came back as soon as possible from his Rib injury so he could help the team. If LB was such a bag of a coach Wallace would have stayed in section 101 Row Z of the Charlotte Arena and watch his team fight it out without him like Chris Kaman has been in LA over a bum toe that's kept him out for 3mos.
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#67 » by LJ4pointplay » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:27 pm

TKF, health concerns are understandble..

RutgersBJJ wrote:Oden's ligaments will never be healthy because they are too weak from HGH abuse (which is how he got so freaking huge). That is why he will never be healthy, it is why Braylon Edwards will never be healthy, and it is why Sheldon Williams sucks. HGH abuse. HGH is fine and very helpful, until you abuse it and use an extremely high level of it.


How are you just going to throw around HGH like that? Oden has always been huge, and was a prospect for a while, I remember reading an article in SI about him when he was a sophomore in HS, was he juicing then? You're kind of reaching there buddy..
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#68 » by RutgersBJJ » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:29 pm

LJ4pointplay wrote:TKF, health concerns are understandble..

RutgersBJJ wrote:Oden's ligaments will never be healthy because they are too weak from HGH abuse (which is how he got so freaking huge). That is why he will never be healthy, it is why Braylon Edwards will never be healthy, and it is why Sheldon Williams sucks. HGH abuse. HGH is fine and very helpful, until you abuse it and use an extremely high level of it.


How are you just going to throw around HGH like that? Oden has always been huge, and was a prospect for a while, I remember reading an article in SI about him when he was a sophomore in HS, was he juicing then? You're kind of reaching there buddy..


obviously, HGH only promotes structural growth before and during puberty. He has all of the signs of HGH abuse. Look at his brow, that gap in his teeth, and he tore his freaking knee getting off the couch. It isn't out of the question to see someone like Oden and question how they got so big. It isn't like he is one of the Lopez twins who has a mom who is freaking 6 something.
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#69 » by LJ4pointplay » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:32 pm

I'm sorry but your argument makes no sense, kids in puberty don't take HGH. Maybe you could find a rare case of a football or baseball player roiding at that age.. but a basketball player? C'mon..
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#70 » by GuyverADL » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:33 pm

RutgersBJJ wrote:obviously, HGH only promotes structural growth before and during puberty. He has all of the signs of HGH abuse. Look at his brow, that gap in his teeth, and he tore his freaking knee getting off the couch. It isn't out of the question to see someone like Oden and question how they got so big. It isn't like he is one of the Lopez twins who has a mom who is freaking 6 something.


Yao Ming too right?

Oden is just a tall stiff. I know plenty of ball players that tore up their knees in highschool and college. You don't have to use HGH to get injured man.
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#71 » by RutgersBJJ » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:34 pm

so you think that every other professional sport has people using performance enhancing drugs, but for some reason there is no one in basketball that does it? Just because people don't get caught doesn't mean they don't do it. And kids in puberty do take HGH. You can get prescriptions from a doctor if you are projected to be undersized.
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#72 » by LJ4pointplay » Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:40 pm

You've got to be like a midget to get HGH from a doctor, Oden obviously was never undersized, lol. I don't even know why I am engaged in this conversation right now, because it is pretty stupid. The thing with other sports is steroids is part of the culture, it's not so much in basketball because it can take as much away from your game as it ads to it. A lot of high school players don't even work out unless their coach demands it.. You obviously never played basketball if you think steroids are part of the game..
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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#73 » by TheBluest » Wed Mar 4, 2009 10:29 pm

The Wagon is a Rollin

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Re: Around the NBA 3/3 

Post#74 » by TKF » Wed Mar 4, 2009 11:18 pm

TheBluest wrote:
TKF wrote:Great points you made.. First of all, you are right, coach and Gm don't always have to agree, but their goals need to be the same. the point you made about felton was dead on.. Brown came in and Drafted a PG, now felton could have taken that as a threat or as motivation. So far it seems to have motivated him, now he will play himself into a nice contract this summer or next when he becomes a Free agent... No whining, no agendas for felton, just strap em up and ball.. when you are on a team that is in the lottery year after year, no one should feel safe..

Same with wallace. Brown talked about trading him from day 1.. what has wallace done, he has averaged 16/7 with 2 assists and is on pace to play more games than he did last year, and would have shattered that, had he not gotten hurt by bynum. Just came in and balled.

the same with Bell and diaw. good players, good guys, they came in not looking to be the "man", but to lead by fitting in?

Brown never got the support here he deserved and it irks me that NY fans trash this guy as if he was the reason we were bad. I will tell you this, Dantoni, Phil jackson, Red auerbach, Pat riley would have never survived under those circumstances. Isiah and dolan were just running this franchise into the ground and they both were cosigning each others BS!!!

Again, I hate to say this as a knicks fan, because I don't root for other teams we are in competition with, but I am happy to see brown doing well in charlotte, many said they would fail this year, but honestly, their improvement has been as good as ours.. I watched quite a few of their games this year and i tell you this, they could easily have won 4 more games they lost just due to inexperience before they got bell and diaw, games I felt they would have won with them.. while we lost games due to the stupidity of our vets.. IE: Free candy slapping boards and ish..... geez.... good to see the cats playing well, good for brown.. we ran that guy out of here and he didn't trash this organization when he had every right to...

Nope he'd either send players home because they had other underlying issues that he didn't want to come out to embarrass him as a GM or he'd go to the owner to discuss buyouts


another big problem of Isiah the GM and Isiah the coach.... Agenda driven to the max!!


Wallace was another good example heck I bet if you go to the Charlotte Observer online to the Sports section you'll see on the main page Bobcats to move Wallace in the summer. I mean his name came up over and over and over. The dude even came back as soon as possible from his Rib injury so he could help the team. If LB was such a bag of a coach Wallace would have stayed in section 101 Row Z of the Charlotte Arena and watch his team fight it out without him like Chris Kaman has been in LA over a bum toe that's kept him out for 3mos.


good point about wallace... again, these guys are playing for brown.. and brown is tough, but he is fair. I never knew of any player who played for brown, listened and never got better..
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