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That guy ...

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Re: That guy ... 

Post#21 » by jezzerinho » Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:56 pm

fateis007 wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
OrlandoSaban wrote:
We finally got “that guy” and almost the entire fanbase is still wanting to tank and lose hoping to get another “that guy” in the lottery.


And they want to tank even tho they know we tanked or tranded for FIVE other guys on our team who were supposed to be that guy, plus ONE more who at least might do it

#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present

We have SEVEN top 8 picks on our team. And only one shows real potential to be a star.

So for a 15% chance to be successful this time - and somehow fit the new player on the team - fans are happy to throw away ANOTHER season.

There's no other sport in the world where the league gives you a better chance to stop sucking and yet Orlando needs 8 tries to achieve it? That's embarrassing.


You had me till you threw Wagner on that list. Dude is a 20/5/5 guy, in his second year. come on now.

and we got Fultz for nothing and Wagner and Carter, first round pick for a has-been Vooch.

And none of the media had Banchero going #1, (yes I made the thread calling on it months before hahaha), kid is already a star. I don't think I have ever seen a rookie come into the league playing as composed as him. Anyone who doesn't see it is not that bright. So they deserve credit for reaching another direction, or else we would have a player out the entire year or Jabari Smith sucking it up right now.


I put Franz on the list because if i left him out someone would surely accuse me of being selective with the data. I wanted us to draft him (party of one on RealGM?) and he's my fave player by far. But hes not "that guy", if we're talking MJ, Giannis, Curry level impact stars.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#22 » by jezzerinho » Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:09 pm

ogmagicfan wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
OrlandoSaban wrote:
We finally got “that guy” and almost the entire fanbase is still wanting to tank and lose hoping to get another “that guy” in the lottery.


And they want to tank even tho they know we tanked or tranded for FIVE other guys on our team who were supposed to be that guy, plus ONE more who at least might do it

#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present

We have SEVEN top 8 picks on our team. And only one shows real potential to be a star.

So for a 15% chance to be successful this time - and somehow fit the new player on the team - fans are happy to throw away ANOTHER season.

There's no other sport in the world where the league gives you a better chance to stop sucking and yet Orlando needs 8 tries to achieve it? That's embarrassing.


This is wildly ahistorical. If someone thought that any of these picks could be "that guy" (we didn't pick Fultz/Wendell so idk why they're there) that's on you for delusional homerism. I didn't expect any to be a #1 option.

Cmon now.


Gimme a break. The point of the draft system is to try to make weaker teams more competitive by giving them a potential star.

I'm not even counting the hash we made of our drafting and FA before WeltHam arrived.

But the truth is we have been lousy at drafting. Having high picks and trading for former high pick players hasn't yet done anything for us (until we drafted Franz and Paolo).

Now that we finally paid the NBA back for the plethora of high picks given to us for being bad at basketball, you guys want to suck for more draftees. This despite our poor record at drafting, the fact we need less raw youth as opposed to more and because losing is bad for fans, players and the city.

All these extended injuries to further fleece the league are just embarrassing. It's like tax fraud on a grand scale but the NBA is the one being robbed.

Our good players don't want to be held out. They don't want to play minutes with Admiral Schofield and Caleb Houstan. They want to play, learn and win. You can only do that with being available, having players around you who know how to play the right way and the various components of your roster fitting together .

None of that is happening. Instead the Magic is putting on a fake limp for disability benefits rather than go and earn an honest living. We're like William H Macy in Shameless.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#23 » by Magic_Kingdom » Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:27 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
ogmagicfan wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
And they want to tank even tho they know we tanked or tranded for FIVE other guys on our team who were supposed to be that guy, plus ONE more who at least might do it

#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present

We have SEVEN top 8 picks on our team. And only one shows real potential to be a star.

So for a 15% chance to be successful this time - and somehow fit the new player on the team - fans are happy to throw away ANOTHER season.

There's no other sport in the world where the league gives you a better chance to stop sucking and yet Orlando needs 8 tries to achieve it? That's embarrassing.


This is wildly ahistorical. If someone thought that any of these picks could be "that guy" (we didn't pick Fultz/Wendell so idk why they're there) that's on you for delusional homerism. I didn't expect any to be a #1 option.

Cmon now.


Gimme a break. The point of the draft system is to try to make weaker teams more competitive by giving them a potential star.

I'm not even counting the hash we made of our drafting and FA before WeltHam arrived.

But the truth is we have been lousy at drafting. Having high picks and trading for former high pick players hasn't yet done anything for us (until we drafted Franz and Paolo).

Now that we finally paid the NBA back for the plethora of high picks given to us for being bad at basketball, you guys want to suck for more draftees. This despite our poor record at drafting, the fact we need less raw youth as opposed to more and because losing is bad for fans, players and the city.

All these extended injuries to further fleece the league are just embarrassing. It's like tax fraud on a grand scale but the NBA is the one being robbed.

Our good players don't want to be held out. They don't want to play minutes with Admiral Schofield and Caleb Houstan. They want to play, learn and win. You can only do that with being available, having players around you who know how to play the right way and the various components of your roster fitting together .

None of that is happening. Instead the Magic is putting on a fake limp for disability benefits rather than go and earn an honest living. We're like William H Macy in Shameless.

Excellent post. Top 6 pick does not necessarily equal productive player contributing to winning team. Especially with this front office.

We got Franz and Paolo, now build around them. Build a winning culture. Add complementary veterans. Make a trade to add a few guys older then 24. Teach them how to compete. Make the right pick wherever you draft.

How many pro-tankers honestly thought this summer we’d be tanking again this year? And I don’t mean losing, I mean trying to lose?
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#24 » by Magic_Kingdom » Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:32 pm

I guarantee you Paolo, Franz and Wendell think this is garbage and are tired of playing for the Lakeland Magic.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#25 » by VFX » Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:42 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
OrlandoSaban wrote:
thelead wrote:We finally got 'that guy' and some are completely blind to it :lol:


We finally got “that guy” and almost the entire fanbase is still wanting to tank and lose hoping to get another “that guy” in the lottery.


And they want to tank even tho they know we tanked or tranded for FIVE other guys on our team who were supposed to be that guy, plus ONE more who at least might do it

#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present

We have SEVEN top 8 picks on our team. And only one shows real potential to be a star.

So for a 15% chance to be successful this time - and somehow fit the new player on the team - fans are happy to throw away ANOTHER season.

There's no other sport in the world where the league gives you a better chance to stop sucking and yet Orlando needs 8 tries to achieve it? That's embarrassing.


#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy To be determined
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present To be determined

These guys are in year 2 of the nba and have proven to be very important in the wins Orlando has had.

Paolo is that guy.

If Orlando earns another top 5 pick "that guy" they are in a good spot.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#26 » by jezzerinho » Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:02 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
OrlandoSaban wrote:
We finally got “that guy” and almost the entire fanbase is still wanting to tank and lose hoping to get another “that guy” in the lottery.


And they want to tank even tho they know we tanked or tranded for FIVE other guys on our team who were supposed to be that guy, plus ONE more who at least might do it

#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present

We have SEVEN top 8 picks on our team. And only one shows real potential to be a star.

So for a 15% chance to be successful this time - and somehow fit the new player on the team - fans are happy to throw away ANOTHER season.

There's no other sport in the world where the league gives you a better chance to stop sucking and yet Orlando needs 8 tries to achieve it? That's embarrassing.


#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy To be determined
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present To be determined

These guys are in year 2 of the nba and have proven to be very important in the wins Orlando has had.

Paolo is that guy.

If Orlando earns another top 5 pick "that guy" they are in a good spot.


Why tf do we need another top 5 pick? More teenagers who.have played 10 pick n roll sets in their lives?

We need to flesh out our roster with experienced, complementary talent. We need to stop feigning injury.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#27 » by SOUL » Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:16 pm

jezzerinho wrote:We need to flesh out our roster with experienced, complementary talent. We need to stop feigning injury.


Sure, but that doesn't happen a month into the season when we weren't sure what we had in Banchero and not knowing if Wagner would continue a solid upward trajectory. Banchero could've had a slow start like Jabari. Wagner could've plateaued and had us bitching like Toronto fans were whining about Scottie. No team is going to flip a roster IMMEDIATELY to get rookie Durant the perfect running mates in year 1 or 2. This just isn't how the NBA works unless the team already has pieces like Memphis or Boston. Most lottery teams are bad for a reason, thus, the roster is going to be wonky while they see who should stick around.

Injuries aren't being feigned either. They are legit injuries, it's just there's always a lack of a timetable and they are super cautious on returning players. Suggs comes back pretty quickly, also seems Wagner heals quickly from things, WCJ's foot thing is notoriously tricky, Banchero was still having ankle soreness, obviously the severity of the rest of the guys took longer but seems we're getting back Moe and Banchero in the next game(s).

The roster as a whole, while still needing massive upgrades, is probably a decent starting point for young guys to develop in IF there weren't so many damn injuries. I think when healthy, it's better than Detroit. Better than Houston despite them hitting 500 threes, better than OKC, we just don't have a top 10 player playing out of his mind like Shai at the moment. We're in an okay spot.. if it weren't for injuries.

Gambling on cheap yet talented players that are injury prone via trades/draft is another discussion in itself.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#28 » by VFX » Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:11 am

jezzerinho wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
And they want to tank even tho they know we tanked or tranded for FIVE other guys on our team who were supposed to be that guy, plus ONE more who at least might do it

#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present

We have SEVEN top 8 picks on our team. And only one shows real potential to be a star.

So for a 15% chance to be successful this time - and somehow fit the new player on the team - fans are happy to throw away ANOTHER season.

There's no other sport in the world where the league gives you a better chance to stop sucking and yet Orlando needs 8 tries to achieve it? That's embarrassing.


#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy To be determined
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present To be determined

These guys are in year 2 of the nba and have proven to be very important in the wins Orlando has had.

Paolo is that guy.

If Orlando earns another top 5 pick "that guy" they are in a good spot.


Why tf do we need another top 5 pick? More teenagers who.have played 10 pick n roll sets in their lives?

We need to flesh out our roster with experienced, complementary talent. We need to stop feigning injury.


Not sure why this has to be said.

This is Orlando. How else are they going to land the talent necessary to fill out a roster?

The options are either signing someone mediocre for an exorbitant amount of money in free agency, or trading quality assets for someone a team is looking to dump.

Are those better options than a top 5 pick you have on a rookie scale deal for almost 8 years? The answer is no.

Now, do I think Orlando needs both of their top picks? Not necessarily if there is a deal that makes sense. Being mad at draft picks solves nothing. The injured guys are Fultz and Isaac. Two guys that have no business making what they make to sit on a bench on non-rookie contracts.

Some of you think that a “that guy” is easily had from another team. There is a reason why most of the playoff teams kept theirs. Teams don’t trade Giannis, Luka, Tatum, etc.

Experienced complimentary talent is either looking to be in a playoff situation or easily outbid by other teams. Orlando has to prove with Paolo and Wagner they are ready. If they can’t do that, then they are back to the draft.

These aren’t my opinions. It’s how the league operates if you aren’t located in Los Angeles.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#29 » by jezzerinho » Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:41 am

MagicMatic wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy To be determined
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present To be determined

These guys are in year 2 of the nba and have proven to be very important in the wins Orlando has had.

Paolo is that guy.

If Orlando earns another top 5 pick "that guy" they are in a good spot.


Why tf do we need another top 5 pick? More teenagers who.have played 10 pick n roll sets in their lives?

We need to flesh out our roster with experienced, complementary talent. We need to stop feigning injury.


Not sure why this has to be said.

This is Orlando. How else are they going to land the talent necessary to fill out a roster?

The options are either signing someone mediocre for an exorbitant amount of money in free agency, or trading quality assets for someone a team is looking to dump.

Are those better options than a top 5 pick you have on a rookie scale deal for almost 8 years? The answer is no.

Now, do I think Orlando needs both of their top picks? Not necessarily if there is a deal that makes sense. Being mad at draft picks solves nothing. The injured guys are Fultz and Isaac. Two guys that have no business making what they make to sit on a bench on non-rookie contracts.

Some of you think that a “that guy” is easily had from another team. There is a reason why most of the playoff teams kept theirs. Teams don’t trade Giannis, Luka, Tatum, etc.

Experienced complimentary talent is either looking to be in a playoff situation or easily outbid by other teams. Orlando has to prove with Paolo and Wagner they are ready. If they can’t do that, then they are back to the draft.

These aren’t my opinions. It’s how the league operates if you aren’t located in Los Angeles.


Dunno where to start with this. You land the missing pieces by trading for them. I would have thought that was clear. Sure you may pick up a decent glue individual or reclamation project in FA, but generally you have to trade for guys.

It's not a waste of assets to trade, as you seem to be implying. You get what you want, they get what they want. You give something up, they do too.

We have some assets, but we should have higher value ones than we do. Fultz and Isaac need to be playing now. We need to know if they're keepers or part of a deal. Let's stop having our doctors deliberately dragging out their recovery to stealth tank, clear them to play and build their value. If, horror of horrors, they get injured again, then we take advantage of the contracts we signed and let them go. We're achieving nothing by holding them back bar making them armchair multimillionaires.

We need to find out what we have in this roster asap and divide the team into keepers and trade bait. As of now, only Franz and Paolo are definitely in the keepers pile. Jalen and Wendell would have a foot in each camp and everyone else would be provisionally in the trade-eligible group. That's not to say they have no future with the Magic, just that we're open to explore for upgrades.

Meantime, we should be playing to win. Let the players showcase their abilities and Orlando's promise as a future contender with the right help. The results will be what they are. It's not tanking and it's not setting stupid playoff goals. It's trying to get better.

As you said yourself, Orlando needs to prove it's ready. Won't do that by filling the sickbay and giving minutes to Schofield
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#30 » by VFX » Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:03 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
Why tf do we need another top 5 pick? More teenagers who.have played 10 pick n roll sets in their lives?

We need to flesh out our roster with experienced, complementary talent. We need to stop feigning injury.


Not sure why this has to be said.

This is Orlando. How else are they going to land the talent necessary to fill out a roster?

The options are either signing someone mediocre for an exorbitant amount of money in free agency, or trading quality assets for someone a team is looking to dump.

Are those better options than a top 5 pick you have on a rookie scale deal for almost 8 years? The answer is no.

Now, do I think Orlando needs both of their top picks? Not necessarily if there is a deal that makes sense. Being mad at draft picks solves nothing. The injured guys are Fultz and Isaac. Two guys that have no business making what they make to sit on a bench on non-rookie contracts.

Some of you think that a “that guy” is easily had from another team. There is a reason why most of the playoff teams kept theirs. Teams don’t trade Giannis, Luka, Tatum, etc.

Experienced complimentary talent is either looking to be in a playoff situation or easily outbid by other teams. Orlando has to prove with Paolo and Wagner they are ready. If they can’t do that, then they are back to the draft.

These aren’t my opinions. It’s how the league operates if you aren’t located in Los Angeles.


Dunno where to start with this. You land the missing pieces by trading for them. I would have thought that was clear. Sure you may pick up a decent glue individual or reclamation project in FA, but generally you have to trade for guys.

It's not a waste of assets to trade, as you seem to be implying. You get what you want, they get what they want. You give something up, they do too.

We have some assets, but we should have higher value ones than we do. Fultz and Isaac need to be playing now. We need to know if they're keepers or part of a deal. Let's stop having our doctors deliberately dragging out their recovery to stealth tank, clear them to play and build their value. If, horror of horrors, they get injured again, then we take advantage of the contracts we signed and let them go. We're achieving nothing by holding them back bar making them armchair multimillionaires.

We need to find out what we have in this roster asap and divide the team into keepers and trade bait. As of now, only Franz and Paolo are definitely in the keepers pile. Jalen and Wendell would have a foot in each camp and everyone else would be provisionally in the trade-eligible group. That's not to say they have no future with the Magic, just that we're open to explore for upgrades.

Meantime, we should be playing to win. Let the players showcase their abilities and Orlando's promise as a future contender with the right help. The results will be what they are. It's not tanking and it's not setting stupid playoff goals. It's trying to get better.

As you said yourself, Orlando needs to prove it's ready. Won't do that by filling the sickbay and giving minutes to Schofield


I’m not really sure what the FO is doing.

It’s obvious they are pulling the strings on these injury timeframes and I can’t tell if they are just being extremely cautious or stealth tanking.

Would I rather see everyone healthy at once playing good basketball? Absolutely. It’s really the only way to see what we have. I don’t disagree with you wanting wins.

As far as trades go I fail to see who has the requisite value on this roster that lands Orlando a very good starter. I would say Fultz or Isaac, but I don’t think either have high value at the moment. This is why I would have rather preferred them to throw money at someone like Simons.

If we boil this down to trading Orlando’s own pick (Currently projected #4 as I type this) it’s very difficult to gauge that value. Again, it would have to be a team looking to offload a potentially fringe allstar guy looking to rebuild through the draft. They would also want any expiring deals to match said salary. Anything less than that for a top 4 pick in this draft is robbing Orlando.
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Re: That guy ... 

Post#31 » by AaronB » Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:12 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
OrlandoSaban wrote:
We finally got “that guy” and almost the entire fanbase is still wanting to tank and lose hoping to get another “that guy” in the lottery.


And they want to tank even tho they know we tanked or tranded for FIVE other guys on our team who were supposed to be that guy, plus ONE more who at least might do it

#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present

We have SEVEN top 8 picks on our team. And only one shows real potential to be a star.

So for a 15% chance to be successful this time - and somehow fit the new player on the team - fans are happy to throw away ANOTHER season.

There's no other sport in the world where the league gives you a better chance to stop sucking and yet Orlando needs 8 tries to achieve it? That's embarrassing.


#1 FULTZ - Not that guy
#5 SUGGS - Not that guy To be determined
#6 BAMBA - Not that guy
#6 ISAAC - Not that guy
#7 CARTER JR - Not that guy
#8 WAGNER - Not that guy at present To be determined

These guys are in year 2 of the nba and have proven to be very important in the wins Orlando has had.

Paolo is that guy.

If Orlando earns another top 5 pick "that guy" they are in a good spot.


If you read Grover, "That Guy" is relentless at improving his craft.

The stories of Jordan spending his off-season practicing 3x per day are not hearsay.

Jordan would lift in the morning, go golf, do footwork drills at lunch, rest, do skill drills in the afternoon and go gamble at night.

Rinse and repeat all off-season.

Did I mention that Jordan arrived with the Bulls with a 38" verticle, but within 3 years it was 48" according to Grover?

That is the mentality of "That Guy".

Let's hope the magic have that guy on the roster.

I have not seen "that guy" yet.

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