2022-2023 Regular Season Game 52: Orlando Magic (20-31) at Philadelphia 76ers (32-17) - 7pm

[Knightro]

It doesn't necessarily mean he'll never get a 3pt shot back. TOS symptoms can be rehabbed with PT or fixed via surgery...for some it can even just go away on it's own. Or they can't. Like most medical conditions, it's a case by case basis. There was a time when Fultz couldn't even hit a jumper from a few feet away. He was able to fix that. Extending that up to the 3pt line is his next hurdle.

What is all boils down to is if fans are willing to hold on to him and see if he can clear that hurdle. If you aren't in that category, I totally respect that. I can see that perspective. Personally, I think you wait it out and if there's not much improvement, you shop him or leverage his lack of a reliable 3pt shot in a new contract and bring him off the bench to run the second unit.

It's been over four full years since his alleged diagnosis and Fultz's three point rate is actually lower right now than it was when he first debuted with the Magic in 2019.

His shot form and willingness to take deep shots is simply not coming back.

If it isn't back by now, it's not ever coming back.

[j_n]

So there you go.

Anderson had a shoulder issue, got it evaluated, and ultimately opted for a pretty common surgery for athletes to address his issues.

Fultz got diagnosed on December 2018. He chose to not have surgery and ultimately didn't play another game for 10 months and still pretty much looked mostly useless as a shooter after 10 months of rehab.

We're over 4 years removed from Fultz's TOS diagnosis and he basically still can't shoot with a reasonable NBA form outside of 18 feet.

Anderson had surgery in April 2019 and was back playing at the beginning of the next season, a mere 6 months later. And a year after that he showed no real ill effects as a shooter - making 94-261 threes in 2020-21.

My grandfather had cancer twice and was able to recover both times, I guess all those people who couldn't were either faking it or had psychological issues, and don't get me started on Covid.

And why did Landry Fields ended up retiring at an early age? another mental midget?

Field's whole body gave up on him.
He had nerve demage in elbow that didn't allow him to handle the ball as he has almost no feeling in his wrist.

On top of that, he ended up having hip surgery, and never played after that surgery again.

And once again, Fields had surgery that was trying to fix his nerve issue. Witch still leaves Fultz as only person with alleged nerve demage who didn't opt to have surgery....

Fair enough, but the point remains that every situation is unique and I doubt even experts in the field would be willing to speak confidently about his situation without a thorough examination.

And as another poster mentioned, surgery can sometimes make the situation worse.

[pepe1991]

This is Dr. Judy Seto. She was the head physical therapist for the Lakers and known around the NBA as Kobe's "secret weapon" whom he relied on exclusively for physical therapy until his final season.

She was Fultz's physical therapist after the TOS diagnosis. Orlando sent their medical staff to LA to learn from her. So she's had quite a nice career. I wonder why she put all that on the line for a 'fake' injury from some young kid with the yips.

Kobe's secret weapon was PRP therapy that was ahead of USADA, as now you can't do it if you don't have knee injury and it's only legal if goal is to return knee to "orginal" form. Witch opens doors for manipulations and PEDs because what's normal form of 32 years old player? His knees strenght when he was 20 or when he was 30?


And in general, is anybody regular gym goer who actually belives guys like Howard, Wallace, Giannis, 40 year old Lebron' aren't on some sorts of HGH or PEDs? NBA drug testings are stories for little kids. John Collins failed PED test twice in several months. If he failed once, nobody would even know, and you can hide PED take once you are busted with different diuretics in matter of days ( look at "natural bodybuilding" competitions, people blast everything than just cut it off month before show and turn "natural" in tests, it's such a hoax of testing that they also include poligraph test )

[Audi]

And once again, Fields had surgery that was trying to fix his nerve issue. Witch still leaves Fultz as only person with alleged nerve demage who didn't opt to have surgery....

Again, we don't know if Fultz even had surgery presented as a viable option. The reasons that may have been the case I already posted, coming straight from an actual Dr.

But let's just assume Fultz was presented with surgery as a potential fix and chose not to as opposed to Fields opting for surgery. Was Fields the #1 pick in the draft just starting his career when got the TOS diagnosis? Was Fields able to rehab his game via PT to the point where he could still have a long career in the NBA despite not having much of a 3pt shot? Different choices by two basketball players in very different situations. They both were diagnosed with TOS and played basketball. The extent of the commonality ends there.

[pepe1991]

And once again, Fields had surgery that was trying to fix his nerve issue. Witch still leaves Fultz as only person with alleged nerve demage who didn't opt to have surgery....

Again, we don't know if Fultz even had surgery presented as a viable option. The reasons that may have been the case I already posted, coming straight from an actual Dr.

But let's just assume Fultz was presented with surgery as a potential fix and chose not to as opposed to Fields opting for surgery. Was Fields the #1 pick in the draft just starting his career when got the TOS diagnosis? Was Fields able to rehab his game via PT to the point where he could still have a long career in the NBA despite not having much of a 3pt shot? Different choices by two basketball players in very different situations. They both were diagnosed with TOS and played basketball. The extent of the commonality ends there.

Fortunately for Fultz, Illig says diagnosis by a trained professional is the first step to a recovery. Treatment varies depending on the anatomy and cause of the particular TOS case, but both physical therapy and surgery have been shown to be effective. ESPN reports that Fultz will undergo rehab for his right shoulder for three to six weeks. Should that fail, says Illig, surgery is usually the next step, and it is successful in “80 to 90 percent of people.”

Can we finally, 5 years later, come to conclusion that therapy wasn't 100% sucess since he still can't f*** shoot?


I mean give it a rest. We talk about player who shot 222 threes in 6 years , spraed over 162 games in league where some random Shaedon Sharpe ,as bench player, in 50 games ,alraedy shot 133. Forget percentages and making, he doesn't attemp them. It's clear that therapy didn't gave nba- level- desired results. So what stopped him from surgery?

source
https://www.inverse.com/article/51537-markelle-fultz-thoracic-outlet-syndrome

[JoshuaPotter]

It doesn't necessarily mean he'll never get a 3pt shot back. TOS symptoms can be rehabbed with PT or fixed via surgery...for some it can even just go away on it's own. Or they can't. Like most medical conditions, it's a case by case basis. There was a time when Fultz couldn't even hit a jumper from a few feet away. He was able to fix that. Extending that up to the 3pt line is his next hurdle.

What is all boils down to is if fans are willing to hold on to him and see if he can clear that hurdle. If you aren't in that category, I totally respect that. I can see that perspective. Personally, I think you wait it out and if there's not much improvement, you shop him or leverage his lack of a reliable 3pt shot in a new contract and bring him off the bench to run the second unit.

It's been over four full years since his alleged diagnosis and Fultz's three point rate is actually lower right now than it was when he first debuted with the Magic in 2019.

His shot form and willingness to take deep shots is simply coming back.

If it isn't back by now, it's not ever coming back.

I would like to build an analogy. But not sure I have the time to articulate. So I will summarize.

Physical or Psychological issues aside. The dude can't or isn't shooting the ball. We shot 38 3pts yesterday. He took only one of them. People need to put aside the how we got here and just start saying what he is or rather is not.

He is not a 3pt shooter. He brings other things to the game for sure, and at this moment we need to take notice and see if his contributions make us a better team. I am leaning towards no but am not fully convinced. I would like Fultz in his current role to get his free throw or assists up (preferably both). Either give us 5+ FTA a game or 6.5+ (preferably 7) assist a game and above average defensive metrics.

I want him essentially in the top 15-20 of point guards discussion. The "yeah he can't shoot but he fills up the stat sheet in other ways." Right now his value is somewhere between 18-30.

[Audi]

Can we finally, 5 years later, come to conclusion that therapy wasn't 100% sucess since he still can't f*** shoot?

There's not a poster here who has ever suggested such a thing, so who exactly are you talking to?

[eyriq]

I've always wondered why we over index on three point shooting when evaluating Fultz and now it makes sense. We think he's damaged goods. I wonder if management shares this view? They could have been holding out hope he'd recover and he clearly hasn't.

[zaymon]

Wow guys, Fultz discussion without me ? Thats rude.

[JoshuaPotter]

I've always wondered why we over index on three point shooting when evaluating Fultz and now it makes sense. We think he's damaged goods. I wonder if management shares this view? They could have been holding out hope he'd recover and he clearly hasn't.

Thats where me and general posters of this opinion will strongly disagree. He is certainly not damaged goods.

He just doesn't have a 3pt shot. Period.

He had the perfect opportunity last night to yeet away at 3pt attempts and any misses would have been statistical noise compared to the entire team.

Saying he had one, or had one before the injury I don't think is completely fair. Remember Grant Hill? The Grant Hill we got was not the Grant Hill of Detroit just like the Grant Hill of the Suns is not the Grant Hill of Orlando. Same human, different player in all 3 phases.

[The-Stallion70]

Fultz could have been great if he had never had the shoulder injury. Even now he is still better than Cole and Suggs despite not creating space.

[The-Stallion70]

PER says Cole Anthony is basically an average guard finally, and for a bench guard probably even slightly above average. A big reason is he is doing it with a much improved 2P%. It’s become undeniable that he has a knack for scoring when it’s needed like the offense has sagged and the Magic are trying to re-build momentum. He doesn’t feel like a selfish player and that’s a credit to Mosely’s rotations too. And Cole is putting in a decent effort on defense even. He had a really sick block last night that fueled the team a little bit. At this point, I think he continues to improve enough to be very worth a 4 yr/12 mil or 5/12 contract with PO. I forget the Cap is rising always so maybe 4/14 or 5/14. 70 Mil right there.
Man, it’s so much better to watch Magic games against elite teams too. The Magic players are forced to go to another level.

I always thought a good comparison point for Cole's extension is Devante Graham