Revisiting the Vucevic Trade, 2 Years Later

[p0peye]

Vučević was a good guy, gave his best and truly appreciated this franchise. However, as I said at the time in trade thread, it was his time to go. Isaac has been hurt, Gordon wanted out, his value was at all-time high and team was going nowhere.

At the time, trade seem really fair - Bulls got two time All Star for injury-prone young center and two 1st round picks which everyone thought are destined to be in 20s. Bulls did great to follow this trade with FA signings, but unfortunately for them, injury bug took toll netting us with incredible return of Franz Wagner and what looks to be another top 10 pick this June (fingers crossed).

In hindsight, if you leave out context, it would seem like Weltham skinned Bulls FO. I think it was more luck then anything else.

[MoMM]

I didn't like the trade at that time, especially because I thought we could have a good team in the next season with Vuc + our pick, but now I can say it was a very good trade for us, no one can deny it.

[The-Stallion70]

Sht that was two years ago already my god

[ogmagicfan]

Vučević was a good guy, gave his best and truly appreciated this franchise. However, as I said at the time in trade thread, it was his time to go. Isaac has been hurt, Gordon wanted out, his value was at all-time high and team was going nowhere.

At the time, trade seem really fair - Bulls got two time All Star for injury-prone young center and two 1st round picks which everyone thought are destined to be in 20s. Bulls did great to follow this trade with FA signings, but unfortunately for them, injury bug took toll netting us with incredible return of Franz Wagner and what looks to be another top 10 pick this June (fingers crossed).

In hindsight, if you leave out context, it would seem like Weltham skinned Bulls FO. I think it was more luck then anything else.

At the time of the trade the Bulls were 19-24. They ended the season on a 12-17 run and ended 31-41.

2021 Draft Pick was a good asset, expected to be in the teens. The Bulls struggled and lost 5 in a row after adding Vuc, then Lavine got injured which assisted draft odds

8 was a surprise tho and I believe the Bulls won a 3 way tie for 8th instead of falling to 10

[PrimeThyme]

I was a huge proponent of the deal at the time and continue to be an even bigger fan as time has passed.

The component detractors of this deal always failed to weigh was the WCJ piece. He was misfit on a middling Bulls team and struggled to stay on the court for most of his career. However, if you dug into some of the advanced numbers and tape at the time, it was clear that there were always Horford-like legitimate starting five qualities there.

That means if WCJ hit alone, we had a starting caliber player who was younger and on a better deal than Vuc. When you added the icing that was the two first-round picks and the Aminu contract dump, it always had major homrun potential.

Luckily for us, we hit the homerun. In fact, the ball is somewhere near Mars as we speak and wait to see what happens with their 2023 pick in another loaded draft.

[Skybox]

I was a huge proponent of the deal at the time and continue to be an even bigger fan as time has passed.

The component detractors of this deal always failed to weigh was the WCJ piece. He was misfit on a middling Bulls team and struggled to stay on the court for most of his career. However, if you dug into some of the advanced numbers and tape at the time, it was clear that there were always Horford-like legitimate starting five qualities there.

That means if WCJ hit alone, we had a starting caliber player who was younger and on a better deal than Vuc. When you added the icing that was the two first-round picks and the Aminu contract dump, it always had major homrun potential.

Luckily for us, we hit the homerun. In fact, the ball is somewhere near Mars as we speak and wait to see what happens with their 2023 pick in another loaded draft.

Agree...the trade was all about the picks for Vuc. WCJ was more than a throw-in, but not much more. Obviously, he's been revealed as a very solid player -clearly even surpassed Vuc at this point. Getting off Aminu was not insignificant. The fact that the '21 pick got as high as #8 was amazing, the fact that #8 produced a guy (Franz) that is SO much better than a typical #8 rotation level player and that he's become so capable so quickly is just staggering. Now CHI is struggling with the next draft on deck...the gift that keeps on giving.

[jonbob17]

I think what gets forgotten about this trade is that Hammond/Weltman were already 3 years into 5 year contracts. It takes a lot of guts to say we've been wrong for the last couple years, we need to take a pretty substantial step back and regroup and find more talent.
Clearly they made the right decision, and it was just as clear at the time too. Granted we have had some luck since then with draft picks.

Look around the league and all the teams that should take a step back right now, but don't have the confidence to make the right call. Hammond and Weltman deserve a lot of credit. The way this season is unfolding there should probably be at least 5 more teams playing for lottery odds right now. A couple of teams this offseason are going to have their rebuilds sent to the front of the line, and there could be multiple all stars outside the top 2 in this draft.

[SD2042]

When the break ups happened two years ago, I was relieved. That Magic group when as far as they did. Two playoff appearances. Two playoff season failures.

NV: I didn't mind Vuc at all. It was because of being traded to the Magic that his career took off and earn an All Star appearance. I did wish him the best when he was traded from the Magic to the Bulls which brought back Wendell Carter and 2 future 1st picks(Franz Wagner).

AG: I was and still a fan of to this point. He was a decent player for the Magic. I thought he would flourish more with the team. I would realize that would not be the case. When he was traded, I was glad for him. He's in a much better situation with the Nuggets than he was with the Magic. He's even having the best year so far into his career. A great benefit playing next to Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Thus making the Denver Nuggets, a proverbial threat in the West.

EF: Fournier's career may have grew with the Magic. However, he like Vuc were truly complimentary players at best. Although Fournier did hit some key crucial shots at times for the Magic, the buddy ball system was annoying at best. Fournier in spite of his growth with the Magic was the one I didn't seek to be a fan towards. Mostly due to the trade of Victor Oladipo at the time. Always a bittersweet deal and a worse deal for the Magic to pull. Although Victor would go have a solid career before the injuries set in on him. Maybe in the long run, the Magic may have dodged a bullet there with him. Back to Fournier, I think at best he's a proverbial sixth man at best. If he's given minutes, he will become more reliable to a contender.

[drsd]

A real what-if:

Chicago is the 8th ranked and Orlando is the 10th ranked. The Bulls lose game 1 and the Magic win game 1. Thus, Chicago plays Orlando for the 8-seed of the playoffs.

Does Orlando want Chicago to win guaranteeing the pick converts or Orlando to win to improve the pick's value by about 3 slots, but taking the risk that Chicago goes top-4 in the lottery?

I vote "Just Win" as it would be about the current team rather than some unknown rookie.

Imagine that the outcome of Carter of Vučević is that the Magic's own pick is at 15 and the converted Bulls pick is ~12.

I can dream.


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[jonbob17]

A real what-if:

Chicago is the 8th ranked and Orlando is the 10th ranked. The Bulls lose game 1 and the Magic win game 1. Thus, Chicago plays Orlando for the 8-seed of the playoffs.

Does Orlando want Chicago to win guaranteeing the pick converts or Orlando to win to improve the pick's value by about 3 slots, but taking the risk that Chicago goes top-4 in the lottery?

I vote "Just Win" as it would be about the current team rather than some unknown rookie.

Imagine that the outcome of Carter of Vučević is that the Magic's own pick is at 15 and the converted Bulls pick is ~12.

I can dream.


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I mean you are probably talking about 4% chance of the Bulls keeping their picks at that point. If the Bulls had any interest of keeping their pick they would have pulled the plug a long time ago, and tanked this thing proper. A 40% chance of keeping pick is one thing, at that point both teams are just trying to get into the playoffs.

PS. Let's hope this isn't the case...pick 12 and 15 would just be an awful outcome for us.

[basketballRob]

The Bulls will probably lose against Memphis tonight

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

PS. Let's hope this isn't the case...pick 12 and 15 would just be an awful outcome for us.

Dude: you are saying that making the playoffs is an awful outcome. Reflect please.


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[jonbob17]

PS. Let's hope this isn't the case...pick 12 and 15 would just be an awful outcome for us.

Dude: you are saying that making the playoffs is an awful outcome. Reflect please.


..

yah, 4 extra games does nothing for this team's future, when compared to them being able to select who ever they want at pick 6 (hopefully much higher)

[JoshuaPotter]

PS. Let's hope this isn't the case...pick 12 and 15 would just be an awful outcome for us.

Dude: you are saying that making the playoffs is an awful outcome. Reflect please.


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yah, 4 extra games does nothing for this team's future, when compared to them being able to select who ever they want at pick 6 (hopefully much higher)

And there you have it....are 4 games worth it? Probably not. Won't complain, but probably not.

[JoshuaPotter]

I wasn't following Orlando for the past several years. When I heard the trade went down I did come here to see reactions.

I started be really busy about the time we traded Dipo and went full ForNAY. My old man kept me up to speed on the team up until he died.

My reaction to the team was a simple "not surprised as it was going nowhere." Aaron Gordon as great as a player he is just doesn't have the ceiling Franz and Paolo individually does in year 2/1 of their careers. Let that sink in as to why I was ho hum prior to the trade and actually lurked after the trade. (IE Management did something interesting for a change.)

People hate the idea of a rebuild, I get it. As someone born and raised In Orlando, the only way we traditionally have nabbed franchise players is the draft, outside of Mcgrady (I am not for injury purposes counting Hill as some people in hindsight tend to say we all knew he was damaged goods but we were just over optimistic) free agency is just that. He (Mcgrady) was a surprise. Reshard Lewis as great a player as he was - was NOT worth the max contract he got in terms of being great player. He was worth the cost as a key piece in a finals run. (two different things).

We are in a potentially "two franchise players" in the draft situation. Although not the same caliber of player. Last time this happened to us it was A. Hardaway and Shaq.

[VFX]

PS. Let's hope this isn't the case...pick 12 and 15 would just be an awful outcome for us.

Dude: you are saying that making the playoffs is an awful outcome. Reflect please.


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Paolo and Franz are two cornerstones of this franchise.

They were both taken with top 10 picks.

You don’t get another chance at guys like that when you want to watch an extra 4-5 games.

[JoshuaPotter]

PS. Let's hope this isn't the case...pick 12 and 15 would just be an awful outcome for us.

Dude: you are saying that making the playoffs is an awful outcome. Reflect please.


..

Paolo and Franz are two cornerstones of this franchise.

They were both taken with top 10 picks.

You don’t get another chance at guys like that when you want to watch an extra 4-5 games.

It's why I made the key point but the underlying point was unspoken yet implied.

We drafted Dwight and Jameer.

We signed Reshard Lewis to an overpay max contract. We didn't nab a superstar. Our finals team lacked a true number 1 option and just had 1/2 great players and 3-5 were solid positions IE shooters.

Gosh where does this sound familiar......

If we can manage two more top 10 picks one more time. I say go for it. But if Paolo and Franz cause us to win too much. Ill settle for that based on where they are in their careers.

[VFX]

Dude: you are saying that making the playoffs is an awful outcome. Reflect please.


..

Paolo and Franz are two cornerstones of this franchise.

They were both taken with top 10 picks.

You don’t get another chance at guys like that when you want to watch an extra 4-5 games.

It's why I made the key point but the underlying point was unspoken yet implied.

We drafted Dwight and Jameer.

We signed Reshard Lewis to an overpay max contract. We didn't nab a superstar. Our finals team lacked a true number 1 option and just had 1/2 great players and 3-5 were solid positions IE shooters.

Gosh where does this sound familiar......

If we can manage two more top 10 picks one more time. I say go for it. But if Paolo and Franz cause us to win too much. Ill settle for that based on where they are in their careers.

Agree.

It’s just 1 more guy. Everyone in the world knows Orlando lacks that guy that can create offense out on the perimeter. Someone that can operate a half court pick n roll offense with Paolo. This draft is filled with them.

The rest of the roster can be whoever.