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Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108

Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass

Sweater Vest No. 29

Poll ended at Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:35 pm

Wendell Carter Jr: 27 PTS, 12 REB, 2 AST, 3 STL, 2 BLK, 11-19 FG, 4-8 3PT, +11 (team best) in 33 minutes
25
45%
Markelle Fultz: 28 PTS, 6 REB, 4 AST, 4 STL, 1 BLK, 10-17 FG, 1-2 3PT, 7-8 FT in 34 minutes
27
49%
Franz Wagner: 20 PTS, 4 REB, 4 AST, 1 STL, 7-13 FG, 4-4 FT, +9 in 33 minutes
3
5%
Cole Anthony: 18 PTS, 8 REB, 2 AST, 1 STL, 7-14 FG, 3-3 FT in 29 minutes
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 55

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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#21 » by Skybox » Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:17 pm

RichCollab wrote:
Skybox wrote:Ok, I’ll be the jerk…have Fultz and Paolo ever both had big games at the same time? That’s my issue. I’m happy that Fultz is playing well and starting to score like he can and, very importantly, he got to the line quite a bit- which he usually doesn’t. The steals are fantastic and valuable.

If their offensive successes are mutually exclusive on any given night, something has to give. Franz can successfully recede into more of a prime Hedo role…taking whatever the game brings him. Paolo & Markelle are more specific in their support needs and they still have room for chemistry growth (PB can improve his off-ball movement and spot up play). That growth from Paolo is likely and would result in a lot more easy baskets for him. BUT (big one) Paolo’s special because he’s built like a tank but moves like a cat, his iso work is what makes him super-special. Turning him into a spot up player to complement a non-shooting PG just to help support that lesser player is completely irrational. If I thought Markelle could come back next year hitting 3 of 7 from downtown- I’d say our Big 3 is forming…it’s that simple to me…

I don’t think it’s likely that Markelle will be able to develop that skill and, therefore, he’ll never be the right guy if you want Franz & Paolo to approach their potential.

His recent scoring and defense doesn’t change his fit. He is a very good player. Maybe it’s not fair to “blame” him for the rest of the team’s needs…winning in the NBA isn’t about blaming or fair or individual players …it’s ALL about stars and team building around them.


3/7? How many PGs are shooting 43% from 3? We have expectations that don’t exist.


True. Bad math...3 or 8...or 3 of anything
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#22 » by RichCollab » Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:24 pm

Skybox wrote:
RichCollab wrote:
Skybox wrote:Ok, I’ll be the jerk…have Fultz and Paolo ever both had big games at the same time? That’s my issue. I’m happy that Fultz is playing well and starting to score like he can and, very importantly, he got to the line quite a bit- which he usually doesn’t. The steals are fantastic and valuable.

If their offensive successes are mutually exclusive on any given night, something has to give. Franz can successfully recede into more of a prime Hedo role…taking whatever the game brings him. Paolo & Markelle are more specific in their support needs and they still have room for chemistry growth (PB can improve his off-ball movement and spot up play). That growth from Paolo is likely and would result in a lot more easy baskets for him. BUT (big one) Paolo’s special because he’s built like a tank but moves like a cat, his iso work is what makes him super-special. Turning him into a spot up player to complement a non-shooting PG just to help support that lesser player is completely irrational. If I thought Markelle could come back next year hitting 3 of 7 from downtown- I’d say our Big 3 is forming…it’s that simple to me…

I don’t think it’s likely that Markelle will be able to develop that skill and, therefore, he’ll never be the right guy if you want Franz & Paolo to approach their potential.

His recent scoring and defense doesn’t change his fit. He is a very good player. Maybe it’s not fair to “blame” him for the rest of the team’s needs…winning in the NBA isn’t about blaming or fair or individual players …it’s ALL about stars and team building around them.


3/7? How many PGs are shooting 43% from 3? We have expectations that don’t exist.


True. Bad math...3 or 8...or 3 of anything


I have to be honest. I had gave up on Fultz ever being able to be a decent 3pt shooter. I even told people it was a waste of time he focus on it during the off-season.

I see some light on Fultz getting to 34% 3/9. He has been shooting his 3s quicker. The step back 2 games ago was a great sign. His FT % has been around 90%. Fultz is like no other player given his 3pt shot was impacted by freak condition/injury? He is gaining full confidence in his body again and I believe 3pt shooting will be improved now.
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#23 » by VFX » Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:32 pm

RichCollab wrote:
Skybox wrote:Ok, I’ll be the jerk…have Fultz and Paolo ever both had big games at the same time? That’s my issue. I’m happy that Fultz is playing well and starting to score like he can and, very importantly, he got to the line quite a bit- which he usually doesn’t. The steals are fantastic and valuable.

If their offensive successes are mutually exclusive on any given night, something has to give. Franz can successfully recede into more of a prime Hedo role…taking whatever the game brings him. Paolo & Markelle are more specific in their support needs and they still have room for chemistry growth (PB can improve his off-ball movement and spot up play). That growth from Paolo is likely and would result in a lot more easy baskets for him. BUT (big one) Paolo’s special because he’s built like a tank but moves like a cat, his iso work is what makes him super-special. Turning him into a spot up player to complement a non-shooting PG just to help support that lesser player is completely irrational. If I thought Markelle could come back next year hitting 3 of 7 from downtown- I’d say our Big 3 is forming…it’s that simple to me…

I don’t think it’s likely that Markelle will be able to develop that skill and, therefore, he’ll never be the right guy if you want Franz & Paolo to approach their potential.

His recent scoring and defense doesn’t change his fit. He is a very good player. Maybe it’s not fair to “blame” him for the rest of the team’s needs…winning in the NBA isn’t about blaming or fair or individual players …it’s ALL about stars and team building around them.


3/7? How many PGs are shooting 43% from 3? We have expectations that don’t exist.


Volume isn’t an expectation?

He doesn’t attempt enough of them for the percentage to matter. 1 game out of every 7 he plays you can make this exception.

This is the same argument for Gary Harris having a great % and taking 2 wide open threes a game while playing 28 minutes.
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#24 » by Skybox » Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:39 pm

RichCollab wrote:
Skybox wrote:
RichCollab wrote:
3/7? How many PGs are shooting 43% from 3? We have expectations that don’t exist.


True. Bad math...3 or 8...or 3 of anything


I have to be honest. I had gave up on Fultz ever being able to be a decent 3pt shooter. I even told people it was a waste of time he focus on it during the off-season.

I see some light on Fultz getting to 34% 3/9. He has been shooting his 3s quicker. The step back 2 games ago was a great sign. His FT % has been around 90%. Fultz is like no other player given his 3pt shot was impacted by freak condition/injury? He is gaining full confidence in his body again and I believe 3pt shooting will be improved now.


I would love nothing more...I DO believe he can learn to use his physicality to get to the line and I think he can be coached into more quality assists as his chemistry with the others grows with time. I just don't believe the 3pt range is around the corner because, in the games I've watched, his form looks so dramatically different when he crosses that painted line. I'm afraid it's so deeply implanted in his head that it's unlikely to improve...I would LOVE to see him wake up and believe his TOS is ancient history and see him selfishly bombing away from 3 with confidence (even if he's missing) with the belief that an off-season of shooting coach work will tune him in. I've been rooting for him from the day we stole him in one of the great salvage opportunities in recent history...I just feel like it's timed out. Same story, different details with Isaac for me. I think the org is suddenly, awesomely, in a different place with more immediate priorities and we need to cut ties and move forward...Someone recently commented about LAL possibly re-signing Bamba, "LAL are not in the player development business" (paraphrase), implying that they are only in the championship ring collecting business...time to let some other franchise spend a handful of seasons digging for gold in unlikely spots. Time for us to storm in the front door instead of sniffing around, looking in windows.
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#25 » by RichCollab » Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:19 pm

Skybox wrote:
RichCollab wrote:
Skybox wrote:
True. Bad math...3 or 8...or 3 of anything


I have to be honest. I had gave up on Fultz ever being able to be a decent 3pt shooter. I even told people it was a waste of time he focus on it during the off-season.

I see some light on Fultz getting to 34% 3/9. He has been shooting his 3s quicker. The step back 2 games ago was a great sign. His FT % has been around 90%. Fultz is like no other player given his 3pt shot was impacted by freak condition/injury? He is gaining full confidence in his body again and I believe 3pt shooting will be improved now.


I would love nothing more...I DO believe he can learn to use his physicality to get to the line and I think he can be coached into more quality assists as his chemistry with the others grows with time. I just don't believe the 3pt range is around the corner because, in the games I've watched, his form looks so dramatically different when he crosses that painted line. I'm afraid it's so deeply implanted in his head that it's unlikely to improve...I would LOVE to see him wake up and believe his TOS is ancient history and see him selfishly bombing away from 3 with confidence (even if he's missing) with the belief that an off-season of shooting coach work will tune him in. I've been rooting for him from the day we stole him in one of the great salvage opportunities in recent history...I just feel like it's timed out. Same story, different details with Isaac for me. I think the org is suddenly, awesomely, in a different place with more immediate priorities and we need to cut ties and move forward...Someone recently commented about LAL possibly re-signing Bamba, "LAL are not in the player development business" (paraphrase), implying that they are only in the championship ring collecting business...time to let some other franchise spend a handful of seasons digging for gold in unlikely spots. Time for us to storm in the front door instead of sniffing around, looking in windows.


Fultz needs another healthy off season and season and his 3pt shot is back. Call me delusional. I see multiple signs it’s possible. He isn’t Westbrook where he will never be a shooter.
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#26 » by drsd » Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:56 pm

Knightro wrote:I know Fultz is going to win this because there's agendas around here lol.

Personally...

Vest - Carter
Cummerbund - Fultz
Mittens - Anthony


I have this as well and am shocked that Mr/ Carter is getting votes. The reality is that Carter's boards were more valuable than Fultz assists. But: without both - Orlando loses this game.

Yeh - nice three be F-Wagner, so I can see why he is getting votes, but for me the Mittens vote is solidly to Anthony. He is proving he can be an elite 6th man, if that is what he works hard towards in the years that come.
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#27 » by jezzerinho » Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:59 pm

Carter
Fultz
Wagner
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#28 » by Knightro » Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:38 pm

Final Results

Vest - Fultz
Cummerbund - Carter
Mittens - Franz
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#29 » by Knightro » Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:41 pm

SEASON POINTS (3-2-1 SCALE)

Paolo Banchero - 37
Franz Wagner - 29
Markelle Fultz - 25
Wendell Carter Jr - 19
Jalen Suggs - 16
Cole Anthony - 14
Moe Wagner - 9
Bol Bol - 9
Jonathan Isaac - 3
Gary Harris - 3
Chuma Okeke - 3
Admiral Schofield - 2

Mo Bamba - 3
Terrence Ross - 2
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#30 » by eyriq » Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:24 am

Knightro wrote:SEASON POINTS (3-2-1 SCALE)

Paolo Banchero - 37
Franz Wagner - 29
Markelle Fultz - 25
Wendell Carter Jr - 19
Jalen Suggs - 16
Cole Anthony - 14
Moe Wagner - 9
Bol Bol - 9
Jonathan Isaac - 3
Gary Harris - 3
Chuma Okeke - 3
Admiral Schofield - 2

Mo Bamba - 3
Terrence Ross - 2
I'm impressed with Fultz's vest points.
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#31 » by Knightro » Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:33 am

eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:SEASON POINTS (3-2-1 SCALE)

Paolo Banchero - 37
Franz Wagner - 29
Markelle Fultz - 25
Wendell Carter Jr - 19
Jalen Suggs - 16
Cole Anthony - 14
Moe Wagner - 9
Bol Bol - 9
Jonathan Isaac - 3
Gary Harris - 3
Chuma Okeke - 3
Admiral Schofield - 2

Mo Bamba - 3
Terrence Ross - 2
I'm impressed with Fultz's vest points.


I mean it's worth keeping in mind this is a fan vote which ultimately means it's a popularity contest :lol:

Like Paolo shouldn't be running away with the most pointed based on how he's actually played this year. But we love him and want him to be the next 25 PPG mega stud 3-level scoring forward, so he gets a lot of votes.
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Re: Sweater Vest Thread #29: Magic 113 - Clippers 108 

Post#32 » by MoMM » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:03 pm

Knightro wrote:SEASON POINTS (3-2-1 SCALE)

Paolo Banchero - 37
Franz Wagner - 29
Markelle Fultz - 25
Wendell Carter Jr - 19
Jalen Suggs - 16
Cole Anthony - 14
Moe Wagner - 9
Bol Bol - 9
Jonathan Isaac - 3
Gary Harris - 3
Chuma Okeke - 3
Admiral Schofield - 2

Mo Bamba - 3
Terrence Ross - 2

It would be cool to have the "Season Points" per game played.

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