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Anatomy of a Disaster

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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#61 » by JoshuaPotter » Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:17 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
-We draft Isaac and Bamba in back to back years: more bigs taken with lottery picks, Vuc and AG still in the team....utter waste.


This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#62 » by Petre1978 » Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:53 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
-We draft Isaac and Bamba in back to back years: more bigs taken with lottery picks, Vuc and AG still in the team....utter waste.


This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.

Run the FO.
Nothing can go wrong anymore.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#63 » by JoshuaPotter » Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:57 pm

Petre1978 wrote:
JoshuaPotter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.

Run the FO.
Nothing can go wrong anymore.


Next time they are hiring ill apply..... :D

When that happens can I add you to my list of references? I would give more references, but clearly I think all they need is you.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#64 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:25 pm

drsd wrote:
purpleswordfish wrote:It's hilarious to see people in here still defending Hennigan's moves. He should've been investigated by the league for making that completely lopsided trade with OKC, getting fired and immediately finding a landing spot in OKC. It reeks of a quid pro quo.


For me signing Biyombo was worse than trading for Ibaka. The combination of both was just so painful though.


I had the fast break tickets for that season, I saw the first 3 games and the games were so awful to watch I refused to attend the remaining 2 lmao. That is currently the worst Magic team to watch for me since I started watching in 1993 lmao.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#65 » by eyriq » Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:35 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:
JoshuaPotter wrote:
There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.

Run the FO.
Nothing can go wrong anymore.


Next time they are hiring ill apply..... :D

When that happens can I add you to my list of references? I would give more references, but clearly I think all they need is you.
Hahahaha I don't condone you two bickering or anything but this reply has me in stitches
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#66 » by eyriq » Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:37 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
-We draft Isaac and Bamba in back to back years: more bigs taken with lottery picks, Vuc and AG still in the team....utter waste.


This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.
This might be my favorite post of the month.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#67 » by Skybox » Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:09 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
-We draft Isaac and Bamba in back to back years: more bigs taken with lottery picks, Vuc and AG still in the team....utter waste.


This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.


I don't disagree with either of you about our priorities, but you kind of have to look at what the draft offers you at each spot. Personally, I think a trade or FA signing is our best likelihood of a meaningful summer improvement in our backcourt. I don't love any of the guards that make sense at 6, so I take Walker for solid depth and I absolutely take Dick or Hawkins at 12...then, I go after Simons or Poole or FVV to get our real "Big 3" with Banchero and Franz. If I have to include #6, I do it...then I try to solidify the backcourt even more with remaining cap or MLE (Donte Divincenzo? Strus?)...or, maybe Austin Reaves.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#68 » by VFX » Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:41 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
-We draft Isaac and Bamba in back to back years: more bigs taken with lottery picks, Vuc and AG still in the team....utter waste.


This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....


I couldn’t agree more with this statement. They should be taking more shots at landing the best fit with Paolo/Franz with both guard spots. I don’t see either position etched in stone at this juncture.

If I had to guess though, they will probably draft a wing and a shooting guard. Two swing men. Not what I would do 100%, but hey it’s better than drafting two bigs that struggle to get minutes. Taking a chance on a guys like Wallace or Smith would be interesting.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#69 » by drsd » Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:45 am

MagicMatic wrote:
JoshuaPotter wrote:Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....


I couldn’t agree more with this statement. They should be taking more shots at landing the best fit with Paolo/Franz with both guard spots. I don’t see either position etched in stone at this juncture.

If I had to guess though, they will probably draft a wing and a shooting guard. Two swing men. Not what I would do 100%, but hey it’s better than drafting two bigs that struggle to get minutes. Taking a chance on a guys like Wallace or Smith would be interesting.



Most very-good to great teams have one star guard and one above-average guard.

Whether it is Brown and Smart, Harden and Maxey, or Mitchell and Garland.

I would say the only great team with two great guards is Phoenix: Booker and Paul.


My point: either Orlando needs to find a star SG - completing the roster, or needs to replace Fultz with a star PG AND upgrade the SG spot. From a managment perspective, I see the former as "easier" than the later.


(( The Bucks are great without two stars in Holiday and Allen. So it is possible to make an outstanding roster without an ace guard, so long as there is a top-5 player on the roster. I am all for Banchero of Dončić because of that logic )).
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#70 » by JoshuaPotter » Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:58 pm

eyriq wrote:Hahahaha I don't condone you two bickering or anything but this reply has me in stitches


It was meant in good spirit. I have nothing against my fellow Magician fan @Petre1978

I am happy it made someones day. :D
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#71 » by JoshuaPotter » Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:04 pm

drsd wrote:Most very-good to great teams have one star guard and one above-average guard.

Whether it is Brown and Smart, Harden and Maxey, or Mitchell and Garland.

I would say the only great team with two great guards is Phoenix: Booker and Paul.


My point: either Orlando needs to find a star SG - completing the roster, or needs to replace Fultz with a star PG AND upgrade the SG spot. From a managment perspective, I see the former as "easier" than the later.


(( The Bucks are great without two stars in Holiday and Allen. So it is possible to make an outstanding roster without an ace guard, so long as there is a top-5 player on the roster. I am all for Banchero of Dončić because of that logic )).


I agree. Taking chances in the lotto to find another Franz equivalent guard is worth it.

Out of our current roster, best upside player at this moment is Suggs and unfortunately I have no idea where he lands. It's not like Dipo where he had tremendous athleticism and just needed another year or two to mature and round out his game.

Suggs peak is possibly a Ron Artest type player if I have to think really really hard about it. However, I do NOT at this time see him coming close to what Ron Artest was on offense. Could be that I am tired today but I just get Courtney Lee vibes on offense from Suggs which is definitely not Suggs peak but is in a way where he is at this second.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#72 » by VFX » Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:07 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:
drsd wrote:Most very-good to great teams have one star guard and one above-average guard.

Whether it is Brown and Smart, Harden and Maxey, or Mitchell and Garland.

I would say the only great team with two great guards is Phoenix: Booker and Paul.


My point: either Orlando needs to find a star SG - completing the roster, or needs to replace Fultz with a star PG AND upgrade the SG spot. From a managment perspective, I see the former as "easier" than the later.


(( The Bucks are great without two stars in Holiday and Allen. So it is possible to make an outstanding roster without an ace guard, so long as there is a top-5 player on the roster. I am all for Banchero of Dončić because of that logic )).


I agree. Taking chances in the lotto to find another Franz equivalent guard is worth it.

Out of our current roster, best upside player at this moment is Suggs and unfortunately I have no idea where he lands. It's not like Dipo where he had tremendous athleticism and just needed another year or two to mature and round out his game.

Suggs peak is possibly a Ron Artest type player if I have to think really really hard about it. However, I do NOT at this time see him coming close to what Ron Artest was on offense. Could be that I am tired today but I just get Courtney Lee vibes on offense from Suggs which is definitely not Suggs peak but is in a way where he is at this second.


The difference between the two guards is that we have more time with one contractually. The other one not so much.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#73 » by NavalAviator94 » Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:36 pm

I always had the belief this disaster happened because there was a strong desire to get the team competitive before owner Rich Devos died. As we all know, he died 2 years later.

I think that blinded them to some of the decisions that clearly didn't work out. Right or wrong I could understand it from an owner's view. He loved the team and the family knew it. I'm sure they wanted to find some joy for him during his final decline.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#74 » by eyriq » Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:15 pm

NavalAviator94 wrote:I always had the belief this disaster happened because there was a strong desire to get the team competitive before owner Rich Devos died. As we all know, he died 2 years later.

I think that blinded them to some of the decisions that clearly didn't work out. Right or wrong I could understand it from and owners view. He loved the team and the family knew it. I'm sure they wanted to find some joy for him during his final decline.
That is a really good take that I hadn't considered
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#75 » by jezzerinho » Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:51 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
-We draft Isaac and Bamba in back to back years: more bigs taken with lottery picks, Vuc and AG still in the team....utter waste.


This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.


Dunno if it's a UCF lovein, but the Hendricks interest at 6 is weird to me. Dude has no handle whatsoever. The options are shoot or defend. Its binary. So right now he's a gunner/defender archetype that every team needs but no sensible team drafts at 6.

At 6 you aim your sights higher, imo.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#76 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:45 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
JoshuaPotter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.


Dunno if it's a UCF lovein, but the Hendricks interest at 6 is weird to me. Dude has no handle whatsoever. The options are shoot or defend. Its binary. So right now he's a gunner/defender archetype that every team needs but no sensible team drafts at 6.

At 6 you aim your sights higher, imo.


Draft skill over anything else.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#77 » by VFX » Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:10 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
JoshuaPotter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
This is the worst part about the whole situation.

Elfrid Payton and Evan Fournier proved nothing at that point. Defensive forwards and bigs contribute very little to a teams success.

In here is a point that never gets addressed.

2016 - back court is Elfrid and Fournier drafted AG 2 years prior - trade draft pick for Ibaka.

2017- literally the next year they draft Jonathan Isaac. Starting back court is as pedestrian as ever while making this selection. Offense is absolutely terrible.

2018 - they draft Mo Bamba. You can’t make this up. They quadruple down on one of the worst guard rotations in the nba and draft another big.

2019 - they draft an injured Forward that won’t play for a year, while they are competing for playoffs with Isaac, Aaaron Gordon, and decide to sign Aminu for ridiculous money nobody else would offer.

This is a blueprint for squandering draft capital by making selections that make absolutely no sense either in roster-construction or minute distribution.

Still today there are people that want to spend lottery picks on players like Jerace Walker and GG Jackson while The Magic have one of the worst back courts in the league with a decade of bottom 5-10 ortg.

Magic have their star forwards that will each play 28-30+ mpg.


There are people on the forum right now who want us to double down on a player like Taylor Hendricks for pick 6th. Who, might be a decent player, but the odds of him becoming better then Franz and Paolo shows the delusion.

I worry management has the same idea.

Out of our entire guard roster. Doubling down on Cole / Suggs / Fultz screams disaster. Unless, mediocrity is the goal.....

I currently have more faith that Isaac will come back fully healthy then any one of our current guards becomes an all star.


Dunno if it's a UCF lovein, but the Hendricks interest at 6 is weird to me. Dude has no handle whatsoever. The options are shoot or defend. Its binary. So right now he's a gunner/defender archetype that every team needs but no sensible team drafts at 6.

At 6 you aim your sights higher, imo.


If Hendricks went to Memphis, instead of UCF, hardly anyone here would advocate to draft him with Orlando’s top pick.
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Re: Anatomy of a Disaster 

Post#78 » by jezzerinho » Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:14 pm

eyriq wrote:
NavalAviator94 wrote:I always had the belief this disaster happened because there was a strong desire to get the team competitive before owner Rich Devos died. As we all know, he died 2 years later.

I think that blinded them to some of the decisions that clearly didn't work out. Right or wrong I could understand it from and owners view. He loved the team and the family knew it. I'm sure they wanted to find some joy for him during his final decline.
That is a really good take that I hadn't considered


Very possible course of events. With Hennigan being so young and inexperienced, Stiles and ownership must have easily been able to sway him from his course.

That doesn't absolve him of the horrible trades he made and the terrible fit of the pieces. That was never winning anything!

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