2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III

[Audi]

I love what the FO has done...they've put themselves in an awesome position to make a move...but some here are recommending filling the bathtub with all the trade assets and congratulating themselves like Scrooge McDuck rather than actually utilizing them. Why keep drafting redundant mid-level prospects and allowing trade assets to depreciate before finally giving them away?

Owning options = Good thing

Doing nothing with them = Waste of a Good thing

We wouldn’t know if they were/are in trade talks or not either way, so really all of this is self flagellation.

But it keeps the board active so I’m cool with it.

Is there some other point to this board than to discuss what we think they're doing/aren't doing/should be doing? IF ANY of us had the ability to just happily wait and see this Forum's ability to continue to sell 1,000 pop-up ads would be nil.

Plenty of other franchises aren’t in total perpetual darkness regarding their FO’s movements and seem to still remain fairly active in their boards. I agree the point of the board is generally to discuss the team in all aspects, but we are a pretty unique outlier when it comes to running in circles like headless chickens.

Also - been so long since I’ve seen a pop-up ad on here I forgot they were even a thing!

[SOUL]

And no, finally a year too late deciding to blow up a roster that clearly couldn't compete wasn't a hard decision.

Not for some of us on the boards that could stomach another rebuild (including me), and hell, maybe not personally for Weltman/Hammond either seeing that they probably weren't tied to many of the players they didn't draft already, but the ownership just went through a rebuild of 6 straight years of losing/no playoffs. A lot of fans were against it too before the season started (until realizing that we did, in fact, suck). I personally think even getting them to move on when they did was a leap of faith - luckily Gordon expedited the process with his request + team playing below average.

I think ownership/Martins gets away with way too little blame in terms of pre-maturely rushing the last rebuild with the awful Skiles hire/trades to expedite the process and then probably having some sort of mandate to at least try to compete a few seasons. There's no evidence for this, I'm just going by common sense of never seeing a team reset that quickly, as in making the playoffs after 6 years of awfulness and then deciding to reset again for potentially 3-4 years (imagine if we didn't hit on Paolo/Franz) after 2 seasons of playoffs.

The earliest they could've pivoted for more value, maybe, was in the off-season before the trades went down realistically, imo.

And of the moves they made to finally tear down Hennigan's team, only one of them was actually good. The Gordon and Fournier trades were both pretty much terrible and they ended up moving Bamba and Ross for literally nothing.

This is a biiiiiit hindsighty. Young player + decent vet + 1st seemed like a fair going rate for how Gordon was playing. I mean, don't get me wrong, now the value is complete ass but it was a risk regardless, considering we probably were trying to "do right" to Gordon and also get fair value.

Hampton was seen as an interesting prospect, noting crazy, but certainly some potential, the first I think people thought would at best be 18 or something (Nuggets were 6th last year in the west, went out 1st round, people thought Jokic's defense would always be an issue + injuries to MPJ/Murray clouding future) - it could've gone either way.

So yeah, the value basically will turn out to be nothing, but I can at least see the blueprint for it. Vuc trade was more risky than people think. They could've went on a big run to end the year and it could've been a late lotto or worse. WCJ had similar complaints as Bamba did in Chicago, future pick wasn't thought to be as low as 11.

Fournier's contract screwed him. If we moved him during the offseason I think he might have gotten an okay late 1st or early 2nd or something but otherwise.. eh.

Ross and Bamba I do agree - kept both way too long, considering most of us could predict how their opportunities would dwindle.

[orlando_joe]

magic have best flexibility maybe ever....great prospects team filled with lottery pick high ceiling players no bad contracts..all there draft picks with a ton extra
and there are fans on here ripping the front office as inept ..crazy town i tell ya...lol

I love what the FO has done...they've put themselves in an awesome position to make a move...but some here are recommending filling the bathtub with all the trade assets and congratulating themselves like Scrooge McDuck rather than actually utilizing them. Why keep drafting redundant mid-level prospects and allowing trade assets to depreciate before finally giving them away?

Owning options = Good thing

Doing nothing with them = Waste of a Good thing

no problem i like trade talk ..its the way some act like front office has done bad..
we all know vuc trade was home run
the ag was great also at time rj was just drafted and got 1 more first and harris a young just injured player that showed promise
i mean thats really like 2 first and young player for a guy that wanted out and had 1yr left on contract and all signs that he wanted to play in cali..not sure he ever had more value?
fournier magic got 2 -2nds and tpe for 2 months not sure he ever had more value?
ross i am sure they tried to trade but had no value what did they lose a 2nd? big deal
bamba never had first value after 2-3rd yr why trade him before that? they still got a 2nd

never took on long term bad contract thats why they have flexibility they have and picks they got

to say front office is bad ? i dont get it..maybe just me? not sure monday quarter backing is right way to rip them

[Knightro]

Plenty of other franchises aren’t in total perpetual darkness regarding their FO’s movements and seem to still remain fairly active in their boards. I agree the point of the board is generally to discuss the team in all aspects, but we are a pretty unique outlier when it comes to running in circles like headless chickens.

I don't think these things are mutually exclusive for what it's worth.

I and others can have minimal confidence in this front office's ability to build the best possible team and still at the same time be very excited about watching this team compete for the playoffs next season.

It's just the nature of it being July, ya know? Once we get to September/October, it's gonna be all about the on-court product.

[eyriq]

Ok…what do you suggest, roll with 6 guards that arent really starters? Tank for a good one? Bank on Fultz’ shooting?
Trades are happening and ORL roster is loaded but unbalanced …seems like a relevant topic

Trades *should* happen, but how anyone could be confident in this front office's ability to make a tough decision is beyond me.

And no, finally a year too late deciding to blow up a roster that clearly couldn't compete wasn't a hard decision. And of the moves they made to finally tear down Hennigan's team, only one of them was actually good. The Gordon and Fournier trades were both pretty much terrible and they ended up moving Bamba and Ross for literally nothing.

I tuned out in 2016, started studying and had my second kid. So I've missed most of the WeHam era in person.

I've gone down the rabbit hole on old podcasts, pod squad and sixth man show mainly, and have put some thought into an evaluation of the WeHam era in retrospect.

They come in, draft Isaac, spend a season evaluating, and then start retooling.

Trade Payton, fire Vogel, hire Clifford, and draft Bamba. Trade Biyombo. Aquire Fultz.

Improve by 17 wins.

I mean, we are geeked after a 12 win bounce, ya know?

Vooch explodes and Clifford instills an identity. The vision is there.

They try to build on that and bail after a season and a half. Going from a 17 win improvement to a complete tear-down in a season and a half is actually quite quick in my book.

Which leads to my assessment that they are diligent in collecting information and precise in actioning on their plan. I'm not worried at all that this front office will mismanage this rebuild.

[Residual-Heat]

Not a very impactful trade, but how about Caleb Houstan for Kai Jones.

Its unlikely we'll have minutes available for Houstan now that we added Ingles, Jett and Black. Kai could be okay as a 3rd string center, who might be able to develop into a decent back up.

The Hornets have Mark Williams, Nick Richards and drafted James Nnaji. They could use a guard/forward like Caleb off the bench.

[D12VCMagic]

Honestly it’s kind of frustrating having such a logjam of young guards with none of them projecting as an All Star (yet at least) while our front court depth is so bad. When Isaac is inevitably unavailable we will have Goga Bitadze, Mortiz Wagner, Chuma Okeke and Caleb Houstan as front court depth. That’s pretty bad. At some point we need to move forward with some of these guards and get value for the others before it’s too late and we are picking up more second rounders for players that played a lot of games for us.

I like Cole, but we can’t pay him and Markelle and still be able to re-sign Suggs in a few years. Plus there’s Anthony Black now too. Obviously there is still time for moves to be made, but at some point this front office needs to put together a roster that makes sense and can win instead of just stock piling players and “evaluating” until players we want to move off lose all value and we are just picking up more seconds to sell off for cash.

[SOUL]

Honestly it’s kind of frustrating having such a logjam of young guards with none of them projecting as an All Star (yet at least) while our front court depth is so bad. When Isaac is inevitably unavailable we will have Goga Bitadze, Mortiz Wagner, Chuma Okeke and Caleb Houstan as front court depth. That’s pretty bad. At some point we need to move forward with some of these guards and get value for the others before it’s too late and we are picking up more second rounders for players that played a lot of games for us.

I like Cole, but we can’t pay him and Markelle and still be able to re-sign Suggs in a few years. Plus there’s Anthony Black now too. Obviously there is still time for moves to be made, but at some point this front office needs to put together a roster that makes sense and can win instead of just stock piling players and “evaluating” until players we want to move off lose all value and we are just picking up more seconds to sell off for cash.

While I 100% agree about the frontcourt depth (also agree that we can't re-sign every guard), there's lot of time to do that. Next offseason we have the potential to have a Houston style makeover with certain depth pieces/maybe a 3rd star or uber role guy if we haven't traded for one by then, hopefully filled out better than Houston though.

People seem to be freaking out about a team led by 22 and 21 year old and now surrounding them with Denver level perfect fitting role guys that will be our long-term answer just yet when so much is uncertain.

I'm looking at the Dwight teams and we're basically in the equivalent rebuild stage of Dwight's third year, where we finished 40-42 and sneaked into the playoffs. The top of the roster was Jameer/Hill/Turk/Battie/Howard/Dooling/Millicic/Arroyo.

A bit of a far cry from even a few years later with Shard, Pietrus, Anderson, JJ, Barnes, Carter, Bass, Richardson, Lee, etc. Things will be fleshed out.

[Skybox]

I guess the NBA is sleeping. Perhaps the Lillard (and Harden?) deal might spark a second rally of moves.

I’m surprised nobody (including ORL) publicly lobbed an offer at Reaves. I understand that LAL said they’d match, but he re-upped for $14 x 4…that’s a bargain. His agent did him a disservice, imo. We should have decided his value (to us) and put it out there. I’d have guessed $17-20 and I feel like I’m not his biggest fan. When you look at deals for similar young players, maybe it’s clear there are still doubts about Reaves-sanity(?). Even if LAL matched, it would force them to pay.

I’m pretty confident the big Joe Ingles signing could have waited a week. Good add, but sleeper of an offseason. There’s always next summer.

There’s ALWAYS NEXT summer.

[jezzerinho]

I’m surprised nobody (including ORL) publicly lobbed an offer at Reaves. I understand that LAL said they’d match, but he re-upped for $14 x 4…that’s a bargain. His agent did him a disservice, imo. We should have decided his value (to us) and put it out there. I’d have guessed $17-20 and I feel like I’m not his biggest fan.

The Lakers always seem to get this kind of treatment from the rest of the league. Supposed rival teams always seem to give LA an easy time in FA.

One of the reasons I'm so against an active player running an agency is that the player, LeBron, can use the agency to apply pressure on his team or on other teams to get what he wants.

[pepe1991]

I’m surprised nobody (including ORL) publicly lobbed an offer at Reaves. I understand that LAL said they’d match, but he re-upped for $14 x 4…that’s a bargain. His agent did him a disservice, imo. We should have decided his value (to us) and put it out there. I’d have guessed $17-20 and I feel like I’m not his biggest fan.

The Lakers always seem to get this kind of treatment from the rest of the league. Supposed rival teams always seem to give LA an easy time in FA.

One of the reasons I'm so against an active player running an agency is that the player, LeBron, can use the agency to apply pressure on his team or on other teams to get what he wants.

Because nobody really tries to hide agenda that League is at it's best when Lakers are champions. It creates most clicks for youtube, most viewerships for TV, most merch is being moved etc.

Lebron's fake player's agency is just epic, in any other more regulated league it would be conflict of interest.


And even when you look their free agency ( and especially last year trades) it's parody. 26 years old former allstar signs for 1 +1 year deal, they keep Reaves on moderate/ low $12M a year, Vincent for $11M.... So nobody in entire nba offered Vincent more than $11M a year after averaging 13 ppg in playoffs and playing as starter in finals? Guy is 26. Not 45.

BUT you are telling me in same time that some random bench player like Bruce Bowen costs $22M?

[Skybox]

Had to wake up our most important thread

No way do we pay for a Dame
JRue is too costly for us at this juncture
One more step down(because people are tired of Herro/Simons talk)…

ORL sends Fultz, Harris, Isaac, DEN 25 to POR
POR sends Holiday, Grant to NOLA
NOLA sends CJ, Nance to ORL
NOLA sends Herb Jones & a protected frp to POR

Why for POR…financial flexibility- get off Grant’s deal, get two big expirings, good young prospect at a position of need (Jones), Isaac, if
healthy, is a perfect complement to Ayton and a defensive game changer with non-guaranteed “take a look” deal, two frps

Why for NOLA…They think they’re close, so they upgrade two starting spots…they like Jones but Grant has better offense with defense,
Jrue is an elite defender and an exceptional offensive player (not quite CJ, but good), Daniels and Hawkins are ready for more. If
Zion is healthy, this is a nasty lineup. They still have picks to spare.

Why for ORL…Give up 3 guys who are not likely big (if any) part of future. Tapping out on Isaac hurts, but, even if healthy, he’s a bench
player now in ORL (behind Paolo & Franz). Nance is a solid bench rotation vet. CJ still has enough in the tank to lead the team for a
few years. One of the best shooters and best locker room guys in the NBA. Runs point next to perfect complement Suggs but can
also move off-ball when Black emerges. CJ commands respect and, for now, is often the best, smartest player for ORL (23/7). He
takes and makes a lot of shots but Paolo becomes more efficient and sees MUCH better shots with an elite perimeter threat. Is CJ
perfect? No…but he’d be a huge offensive upgrade and a far better fit, with enough versatility to adapt well with our kids.

CJ, Black
Suggs, Cole
Franz, Jingles, Jett
Paolo, Nance
WCJ, Goga, M. Wagner

*lots of multi-position guys here, so Jett, Cole, M. Wagner get shots & minutes - if earned and dependent on schemes/matchups
quickly.

[Skybox]

Looks like Jrue likely to BOS or LAC…any thing we can get in in by helping facilitate?

Brogdon? TimeLord has been discussed as possibly available with Porzingis in.
Terrence Mann?

[Skybox]

POR sends Jrue to BOS
POR gets Fultz(expiring but useful), Gary Harris(expiring but useful), Okeke(versatile young forward to replace Nassir),
ORL 24 frp(top 5), DEN 24 frp(top 5)
Why-no loss of potential future cap space, 2 frps in next two years, versatile heady young prospect at a rotational position that’s thin

BOS sends Brogdon and Robert Williams to ORL
BOS gets Jrue Holiday, Goga Bitadze, ORL 25 srp
Why-Big upgrade on both ends with Jrue, physical, solid, physical young big behind Porzingis and Horford, srp adding to stash

ORL sends Fultz, Harris, Okeke, ORL 24(top 8), DEN 25 to POR
ORL sends Goga, ORL 25 srp to BOS
ORL gets Robert Williams, Malcolm Brogdon
Why-immediate improvement with backcourt leadership and shooting, incredible defensive versatility and depth in young frontcourt

Brogdon/Cole/Black…Brogdon plays 25 mins and likely some are at SG
Suggs/Howard
Franz/Jingles/Houstan
Paolo/Isaac
WCJ/ Time Lord/ M. Wagner

The frontcourt defensive versatility with Williams and Isaac off the bench is eye popping. Potentially perfect defensive-minded complements to Paolo & Franz. Brogdon is only 30 and coming off 6moy season. This is a really good team without compromising the future. Top 5 protection on 24 frp to prevent catastrophic blow in the event of injury filled season…otherwise, clear playoff team with room for further patient development within from Suggs, Black, Howard in particular. Lots of minutes for Cole to shine and, hopefully, re-sign on a reasonable deal. Brogdon is best guard on the team, but ready to move around as others prove worthy and, ultimately, replace him…in my mind, the only real sacrifice here is a protected pick in a weak draft while we already have too many unproven but promising guys on the roster.

[cedric76]

Glad those dame and jrue nonsense trades are over

[Residual-Heat]

Glad those dame and jrue nonsense trades are over

Fultz for Brogdon?