Would you start Markelle or Jameer

[pepe1991]

This must be a trick question.

Across the board 24yo-Fultz was better than 24yo-Nelson. It is not a close comparison.

link: Jameer Nelson (2007-2007) vs. Markelle Fultz (2023-2023): Head-to-Head Stats Comparison

comparing different eras of basketball isn't really fruitful .

2006-07 season had teams average
98,7 ppg. Now teams average 115.
45,7% FG. Now it's 47,5%
18 three point attemps a game. Now it's 34
teams used to average 80 shots a game. Now near 90.

During 2006-07 season only 20 players averaged 20 ppg . How hard was that? Well, prime Tim Duncan averaged as many points per game as rookie Banchero


Now? 43 different players average 20 ppg .

Hell, i'll give you comparison

Player A:

25 ppg, 10 rpg, 4 apg. 46% FG, 34% for 3.



Player B:
20 ppg, 11 rpg, 3,4 apg, 52% FG , 11% for 3

Spoiler:

Player A is Randle, Player B is finals MVP of that season, prime Tim Duncan

Lot of fans can't simply get over a fact this is "empty stats era". You can average near 30 ppg , 4 apg and 4 rpg and still be more of a burden than value of your team. (Lavine, Randle etc ).

This is execlly why every group of fans belives they have "best young core". Because each and every team has at least 1-2 players who average numbers that in past were only achivable to superstars. And more you watch them on daily bases, less objective you become about their potential. Because "how can somebody not be elite if he is 20 and averages 20 " he must have unlimited potential, right? Well... not really.


From last year

Just 10 weeks into the schedule, there have already been six games of at least 55 points, which is an NBA record for a single season. There have been 14 performances of at least 50 points this season, which matches the total from all of 2020-21. There were a total of 19 50-point games last season. At this pace, there's a good chance that total gets dusted by the All-Star break.

We had Monk, Cam Thomas going for 45, Shadiq Bay going for 51 etc. It's laughable. "Defense?" Defense!

[drsd]

This must be a trick question.

Across the board 24yo-Fultz was better than 24yo-Nelson. It is not a close comparison.

link: Jameer Nelson (2007-2007) vs. Markelle Fultz (2023-2023): Head-to-Head Stats Comparison

comparing different eras of basketball isn't really fruitful .

Yes and no. For examplke, by per36 numbers, Fultz-24 is still across the board better than Nelson-24. For me the key is that many here like Nelson''s shooting. Well Nelson-24 was a terrible shooter.

Frankly all this leads to the general narrative that being a starting NBA-PG is hard. And that Black is at least 5-years off from being capable of leading a team. Right now it is either Fultz or some acquired player that will lead the team over the next three years.

I see no other paths.

[pepe1991]

Across the board 24yo-Fultz was better than 24yo-Nelson. It is not a close comparison.

link: Jameer Nelson (2007-2007) vs. Markelle Fultz (2023-2023): Head-to-Head Stats Comparison

comparing different eras of basketball isn't really fruitful .

Yes and no. For examplke, by per36 numbers, Fultz-24 is still across the board better than Nelson-24. For me the key is that many here like Nelson''s shooting. Well Nelson-24 was a terrible shooter.

Frankly all this leads to the general narrative that being a starting NBA-PG is hard. And that Black is at least 5-years off from being capable of leading a team. Right now it is either Fultz or some acquired player that will lead the team over the next three years.

I see no other paths.

Per 36 don't mean jack**** because they don't take in considiration pace that went from mid 80s to near 100. Per 100 possessions, regardless how dumb that data is, they average identical amount of poinst (0,1 differential).

With 13 ppg, Nelson was 66th best scorer that year. ( J Kidd was allstar averaging 13ppg -9apg - 8rpg that year).


Fultz averaging 14 ppg makes him 85th best scorer. As 66th scorer in 2022-23 averages 16.6 ppg. ( in contrast of 85th scorer in 2006-07, and that player's 11 ppg ).


At age of 24, Nelson played his 3rd nba season. Fultz his 6th.

You said Nelson was bad shooter. Nelson as sophmore made 70 threes on 42,4% percent.
Fultz for entire career made 77 threes on 27,8%

Anyhow, i'm strongly against comparison between players from different basketball eras. Nelson v Fultz is such.


Picture this: it's summer of 2016 and i'm sitting at my mac trying to explain certain posters here why Tony Parker is better than Elfrid Payton. And their argument for Payton is " numbers don't lie". That aged...well?

God i need to ingage in less debates

[p0peye]

This must be a trick question.

Across the board 24yo-Fultz was better than 24yo-Nelson. It is not a close comparison.

link: Jameer Nelson (2007-2007) vs. Markelle Fultz (2023-2023): Head-to-Head Stats Comparison

If they had same skill sets, I'd be looking into efficiency comparison, but they don't.

[JoshuaPotter]

Looking at where the debate has gone and yes even admitting its different eras and hindsight being 20-20.

I still take Nelsons development over Fultz thus far in terms of team fit, chemistry, and yes Fultz vs Nelson respective starts to finish'

The irony of irony being, we all know Nelson got hurt. So we will never know if he just had one of the longest hotstreaks ever or his injury set him back to permanent mediocrity.

https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/290116013 - "They made some tough shots. He [Nelson] made some really, really huge, tough shots. He's playing at an all-star level." - Kobe

[eyriq]

comparing different eras of basketball isn't really fruitful .

Yes and no. For examplke, by per36 numbers, Fultz-24 is still across the board better than Nelson-24. For me the key is that many here like Nelson''s shooting. Well Nelson-24 was a terrible shooter.

Frankly all this leads to the general narrative that being a starting NBA-PG is hard. And that Black is at least 5-years off from being capable of leading a team. Right now it is either Fultz or some acquired player that will lead the team over the next three years.

I see no other paths.

Per 36 don't mean jack**** because they don't take in considiration pace that went from mid 80s to near 100. Per 100 possessions, regardless how dumb that data is, they average identical amount of poinst (0,1 differential).

With 13 ppg, Nelson was 66th best scorer that year. ( J Kidd was allstar averaging 13ppg -9apg - 8rpg that year).


Fultz averaging 14 ppg makes him 85th best scorer. As 66th scorer in 2022-23 averages 16.6 ppg. ( in contrast of 85th scorer in 2006-07, and that player's 11 ppg ).


At age of 24, Nelson played his 3rd nba season. Fultz his 6th.

You said Nelson was bad shooter. Nelson as sophmore made 70 threes on 42,4% percent.
Fultz for entire career made 77 threes on 27,8%

Anyhow, i'm strongly against comparison between players from different basketball eras. Nelson v Fultz is such.


Picture this: it's summer of 2016 and i'm sitting at my mac trying to explain certain posters here why Tony Parker is better than Elfrid Payton. And their argument for Payton is " numbers don't lie". That aged...well?

God i need to ingage in less debates

I read this and Mortal Kombat comes to mind. "Fatality"

[drsd]

Looking at where the debate has gone and yes even admitting its different eras and hindsight being 20-20.

I still take Nelsons development over Fultz thus far in terms of team fit, chemistry, and yes Fultz vs Nelson respective starts to finish'

The irony of irony being, we all know Nelson got hurt. So we will never know if he just had one of the longest hotstreaks ever or his injury set him back to permanent mediocrity.

https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/290116013 - "They made some tough shots. He [Nelson] made some really, really huge, tough shots. He's playing at an all-star level." - Kobe

Here I am in full agreement. In hindsight, yes Nelson was the better player than Fultz projects to be. But 24yo Nelson was clearly going to be a key player for Orlando's obvious rise to come. One cannot say those things about Fultz. Most here, myself included, see Fultz' upside as "place holder". That's not a ringing endorsement.

But to keep triggering pepe:

You said Nelson was bad shooter. Nelson as sophmore made 70 threes on 42,4% percent.
Fultz for entire career made 77 threes on 27,8%

God i need to ingage in less debates

It is objective that Fultz eFG% was substantially better than Nelson's. It is widely separable at 0.534 vs 0.467. Nelson was a horrible 2-pt shooter as a 24 yo. And his 3 ball attempts were a low 2.5 attempts per game (mostly because of the era), and thus, Fultz-24 was a dramatically more involved and efficient player on offense than Nelson-24.

[Skybox]

Looking at where the debate has gone and yes even admitting its different eras and hindsight being 20-20.

I still take Nelsons development over Fultz thus far in terms of team fit, chemistry, and yes Fultz vs Nelson respective starts to finish'

The irony of irony being, we all know Nelson got hurt. So we will never know if he just had one of the longest hotstreaks ever or his injury set him back to permanent mediocrity.

https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/290116013 - "They made some tough shots. He [Nelson] made some really, really huge, tough shots. He's playing at an all-star level." - Kobe

Here I am in full agreement. In hindsight, yes Nelson was the better player than Fultz projects to be. But 24yo Nelson was clearly going to be a key player for Orlando's obvious rise to come. One cannot say those things about Fultz. Most here, myself included, see Fultz' upside as "place holder". That's not a ringing endorsement.

But to keep triggering pepe:

You said Nelson was bad shooter. Nelson as sophmore made 70 threes on 42,4% percent.
Fultz for entire career made 77 threes on 27,8%

God i need to ingage in less debates

It is objective that Fultz eFG% was substantially better than Nelson's. It is widely separable at 0.534 vs 0.467. Nelson was a horrible 2-pt shooter as a 24 yo. And his 3 ball attempts were a low 2.5 attempts per game (mostly because of the era), and thus, Fultz-24 was a dramatically more involved and efficient player on offense than Nelson-24.

Triggering is right as long as we’re going down the road of using numbers (with no context) to make minute points to argue an issue that a blind man can see…Jameer’s contract was half of Markelle’s, so I’d choose Jameer.

Id also choose Jameer because he was an infinitely more advanced player. That’s not really a knock on Markelle- it’s just remembering that one of these guys was an all-star who led his team to the finals…despite being short & stocky & not dunking. Jameer’s defensive shortcomings hurt in the end but that’s not enough to discount how far he took us before getting “exposed”…it makes a case for a 3-level scoring, offensive-minded Lead Guard with an offensively limited SG in today’s NBA. That Magic team was ahead of it’s time and would compete today just as well…and Jameer didn’t have a Suggs next to him

[magik9113]

Jameer easy, but I do love Fultz

[IllMagic04]

Meer all day. Should he go in the Magic HOF? I say yes

[Last Guardian]

This would be a great era for Jameer. PGs don't really post up anymore. In his time he was getting obliterated by big guards almost every night. Really hurt us even though he was a solid and pretty efficient scorer. Jameer still would be a bad defender today but it wouldn't be as noticeable. Basically, he'd be FVV but way more efficient.

[SHAQ32]

Insult to Jameer.