2023-2024 Regular Season Game 21: Orlando Magic (14-6) at Cleveland Cavaliers (11-9) - 7pm

[JoshuaPotter]

I kinda sensed after our 9 game winning streak that we would bounce a couple.

When your undisputed top 2 players are in year 2/3 you should expect this level of streaky team play as they learn to win. Paulo was on point tonight. Get to the hole, nobody on the other team can stop him. If he figures out which teams he can abuse like that he will inch his points up to 25 PPG.

Injuries, and the hum drum of the season has caught up to Suggs. Being our 3rd best player and our teams defensive motor that is going to hurt. It's hard because saying the phrase "the bench needs to step up" is an oxymoron when they are one of the best in the league. Not seeing Isaac in a key matchup game hurts too.

Black having the most effective game of his career and then being benched made no sense. It is not like we were winning or he was the reason we weren't per say or someone else came in with the super hot hand.

Garry Harris. If you are reading this. Warm your hands up prior to the game and keep them warm throughout cause we got plenty of defensive minded players who are better then you in that aspect. We need you to bring 3&D.

[eyriq]

Black with 15 mins while playing the best game of his early career is so odd.

His minutes just don't make sense to me. He starts but then gets second string minutes. I understand not normal starter minutes, but he should be getting 22-24 mpg.

This game was basically decided by three point shooting. Can't win many games shooting so poorly when the other team shoots it so well (even though they came back down to earth, which let us back into the game for a time). The chance was there down 8. if we hit that three pointer it gets really interesting. Also I felt like a lot of guys are forcing stuff at times. There was one play last night that stuck out big, in the 4th, Cole forces a 1 on 4 fast break, lol. He drives into the paint with 4 defenders and tries to draw a foul and forces up a shot instead of pulling it back out and setting up a play. I can't recall but I think Cavs immediately came the other way and hit a 3 and the game lost momentum instantly. Franz does this a bit as well, gets into the paint, forces up an awkward shot hoping for a bail out call. he's got a get a little better at picking those moments.

On the whole though, the melt down on twitter and facebook is always amusing as fans lose their minds. 9 straight and then 2 straight losses and it's "Oh no! We suck again!".

I chalk it up to internal politics. I think Mosley has his hands tied. Otherwise, Black's mins would respond to on-court performance. I think they effectively have sold Black starting to Cole as "yes he'll start but Cole you'll be the starter in all the other stints". And I legit think Cole has temper tantrums when his role is reduced at the expense of Black.

[TheChaser]

Paolo is so well grounded while at the same time shooting for the stars.

Coach Mos has such a special connection with the players.

We are going to be alright. We need to weed out some of our injury prone players of the next couple of seasons. I’m hopeful Suggs overall we stay on the floor.

I keep JI if he accepts a reasonable pay cut do to his health. We don’t need him to be a starter and any time he is on the floor he is a game changer. I’m hoping he get to 50 games a year. I’m willing to bet on JI still. Again, as long as we don’t tie up to much salary.

Good and positive post my friend.

[basketballRob]

Black with 15 mins while playing the best game of his early career is so odd.

His minutes just don't make sense to me. He starts but then gets second string minutes. I understand not normal starter minutes, but he should be getting 22-24 mpg.

This game was basically decided by three point shooting. Can't win many games shooting so poorly when the other team shoots it so well (even though they came back down to earth, which let us back into the game for a time). The chance was there down 8. if we hit that three pointer it gets really interesting. Also I felt like a lot of guys are forcing stuff at times. There was one play last night that stuck out big, in the 4th, Cole forces a 1 on 4 fast break, lol. He drives into the paint with 4 defenders and tries to draw a foul and forces up a shot instead of pulling it back out and setting up a play. I can't recall but I think Cavs immediately came the other way and hit a 3 and the game lost momentum instantly. Franz does this a bit as well, gets into the paint, forces up an awkward shot hoping for a bail out call. he's got a get a little better at picking those moments.

On the whole though, the melt down on twitter and facebook is always amusing as fans lose their minds. 9 straight and then 2 straight losses and it's "Oh no! We suck again!".

I chalk it up to internal politics. I think Mosley has his hands tied. Otherwise, Black's mins would respond to on-court performance. I think they effectively have sold Black starting to Cole as "yes he'll start but Cole you'll be the starter in all the other stints". And I legit think Cole has temper tantrums when his role is reduced at the expense of Black.

Mosely got away from using Black down the stretch in games, and that's what was working. Harris has been worthless for the last 5-6 games. It's like playing 4 on 5 when he's in the lineup. Black at least gives us another ballhandler and defender. Harris has been awful on both sides.

Harris looks close to being out of the NBA.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Def Swami]

Super frustrating game last night. Team came out flat in the first quarter and expended too much energy trying to play catch up all night. I'm still astounded the game was within reach multiple times despite the woeful 3 point shooting disparity. We're going to have nights like that throughout the season. You're almost never going to win a basketball game in 2023 where you only hit 2 3's. The Cavs are too good a basketball team to have that bad a shooting night against. Franz Wagner has to be better too. Dreadful shooting night for him. He contributed in other ways, but the team just lacks too much consistency on offense to have a stretch where he goes 0/10.

I imagine Suggs will be out for a little while. I was surprised when they brought him back in after the first time he grabbed at his achilles. If any player had an achilles concern, I would just table that player until we can get some imaging and rehab rather than risk aggravating it into a worse situation.

I also don't believe Jalen Suggs should be the difference between being a playoff team vs a fighting for the play in. Injuries happen to good teams throughout the year. Miami, Denver, Boston, Golden State have all dealt with injuries to key players in the regular season in the last few seasons. As long as it's not a season-ending one, we should be able to stay afloat if this team is truly ready to take a leap. It should be next man up. We're a relatively deep team. We should be getting Carter and Isaac back, which should help. It also might be time to see what we can get out of 10 minutes of Jett Howard.

[OrlandoSaban]

this Magic team reminds me of the Colorado Buffaloes. Hype in the beginning, fizzle in the current

[RichCollab]

Super frustrating game last night. Team came out flat in the first quarter and expended too much energy trying to play catch up all night. I'm still astounded the game was within reach multiple times despite the woeful 3 point shooting disparity. We're going to have nights like that throughout the season. You're almost never going to win a basketball game in 2023 where you only hit 2 3's. The Cavs are too good a basketball team to have that bad a shooting night against. Franz Wagner has to be better too. Dreadful shooting night for him. He contributed in other ways, but the team just lacks too much consistency on offense to have a stretch where he goes 0/10.

I imagine Suggs will be out for a little while. I was surprised when they brought him back in after the first time he grabbed at his achilles. If any player had an achilles concern, I would just table that player until we can get some imaging and rehab rather than risk aggravating it into a worse situation.

I also don't believe Jalen Suggs should be the difference between being a playoff team vs a fighting for the play in. Injuries happen to good teams throughout the year. Miami, Denver, Boston, Golden State have all dealt with injuries to key players in the regular season in the last few seasons. As long as it's not a season-ending one, we should be able to stay afloat if this team is truly ready to take a leap. It should be next man up. We're a relatively deep team. We should be getting Carter and Isaac back, which should help. It also might be time to see what we can get out of 10 minutes of Jett Howard.

Suggs on top of the other injuries is a pretty big impact.

[RichCollab]

this Magic team reminds me of the Colorado Buffaloes. Hype in the beginning, fizzle in the current

Terrible take. This had been an involving plan and program over the last 3 or 4 years with no short cuts.

Colorado was an insanely large personality bringing an unsustainable level of energy.

[JoshuaPotter]

this Magic team reminds me of the Colorado Buffaloes. Hype in the beginning, fizzle in the current

Terrible take. This had been an involving plan and program over the last 3 or 4 years with no short cuts.

Colorado was an insanely large personality bringing an unsustainable level of energy.

I agree. I said last year, a healthy starting level PG + P + F is all we need to play .500 ball.

Last year we had a 6 game win streak before playing .500 the rest of the way. I do not understand the hype for the hype beginning to fizzle. If anything, it is full steam ahead from here.

[JoshuaPotter]

Sometimes I just feel like I need to say it. Our core is so young they could almost be my kids.

Relax. We are on track and no rush to change anything. Injuries suck though. No doubt.

[Audi]

Wow. Missed this one but that's terrible.

Read on Twitter

[SOUL]

Black with 15 mins while playing the best game of his early career is so odd.

His minutes just don't make sense to me. He starts but then gets second string minutes. I understand not normal starter minutes, but he should be getting 22-24 mpg.

This game was basically decided by three point shooting. Can't win many games shooting so poorly when the other team shoots it so well (even though they came back down to earth, which let us back into the game for a time). The chance was there down 8. if we hit that three pointer it gets really interesting. Also I felt like a lot of guys are forcing stuff at times. There was one play last night that stuck out big, in the 4th, Cole forces a 1 on 4 fast break, lol. He drives into the paint with 4 defenders and tries to draw a foul and forces up a shot instead of pulling it back out and setting up a play. I can't recall but I think Cavs immediately came the other way and hit a 3 and the game lost momentum instantly. Franz does this a bit as well, gets into the paint, forces up an awkward shot hoping for a bail out call. he's got a get a little better at picking those moments.

On the whole though, the melt down on twitter and facebook is always amusing as fans lose their minds. 9 straight and then 2 straight losses and it's "Oh no! We suck again!".

I chalk it up to internal politics. I think Mosley has his hands tied. Otherwise, Black's mins would respond to on-court performance. I think they effectively have sold Black starting to Cole as "yes he'll start but Cole you'll be the starter in all the other stints". And I legit think Cole has temper tantrums when his role is reduced at the expense of Black.

Black is averaging 50/29/66 with decent defense and passive play. I'd say 19 mpg is pretty on point for where he is right now.

I like his feel for the game, but his spotty production and lack of strength right now is apparent. I don't think his last game was even his best to be honest, he was 5-5 but 0/0/0/0 elsewhere and wasn't exactly forcing Garland into hard plays, someone who has been turning the ball over at crazy rates.

For a team constantly down 15 points in the 2nd half, we needed people to hit three point shots to come back a bit. Gary was missing but it makes sense why floor spacers were out there.

Very excited for Black's future, just don't think he's much more than a connector piece his rookie year, and that's fine.

[drsd]

Box score thoughts:

Orlando lost the FG% battle and lost the game. But neither by that much actually.

It's pretty remarkable we even made it close after shooting 2/23 from 3.

That is ugly, but the Magic landed on 48.8% shooting because of 39-61 shooting with the 2-ball (64%)
Add to that the 27 made FTs, Orlando did manufacture points this game.

For me, the Magic lost the game because the team was not particularly efficient with rebounding: 36 total with only 7 offensive.

Frankly, after the Magic lost Suggs, the Magic lost the ability to guard the perimeter. That is another origin of this loss for me.

[drsd]

Black ....
I like his feel for the game, but his spotty production and lack of strength right now is apparent. I don't think his last game was even his best to be honest, he was 5-5 but 0/0/0/0 elsewhere and wasn't exactly forcing Garland into hard plays, someone who has been turning the ball over at crazy rates.

Garland was 26 pts and 9 assists on Zero TOs. Black was awful defensively in this assignment. The absence of Suggs was noticeable on Black's play.

[eyriq]

Black ....
I like his feel for the game, but his spotty production and lack of strength right now is apparent. I don't think his last game was even his best to be honest, he was 5-5 but 0/0/0/0 elsewhere and wasn't exactly forcing Garland into hard plays, someone who has been turning the ball over at crazy rates.

Garland was 26 pts and 9 assists on Zero TOs. Black was awful defensively in this assignment. The absence of Suggs was noticeable on Black's play.

Black played 15 mins

[Bergmaniac]

Black ....
I like his feel for the game, but his spotty production and lack of strength right now is apparent. I don't think his last game was even his best to be honest, he was 5-5 but 0/0/0/0 elsewhere and wasn't exactly forcing Garland into hard plays, someone who has been turning the ball over at crazy rates.

Garland was 26 pts and 9 assists on Zero TOs. Black was awful defensively in this assignment. The absence of Suggs was noticeable on Black's play.

Do you even watch the games or just the boxscore? Garland scored most of these points when he wasn't defended by Black. He scored only three baskets when defended by Black and 2 of these were tough shots which were well contested. And there was another 2 points which Garland scored after Black fouled him. The rest of Garland's points were scored when Black was on the bench or guarding someone else. Here are all of Garland's baskets if you want to check for yourself - https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022301205&PlayerID=1629636&RangeType=0&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612739&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

[JoshuaPotter]

Black ....
I like his feel for the game, but his spotty production and lack of strength right now is apparent. I don't think his last game was even his best to be honest, he was 5-5 but 0/0/0/0 elsewhere and wasn't exactly forcing Garland into hard plays, someone who has been turning the ball over at crazy rates.

Garland was 26 pts and 9 assists on Zero TOs. Black was awful defensively in this assignment. The absence of Suggs was noticeable on Black's play.

Black played 15 mins

I can only listen in via radio, but I left feeling pretty good about Black vs Garland. Black seemed to be one of the only players like Paulo with a "make something happen" attitude. I have no idea why he was benched. I am sorry if this goes against the grain. If you comment on how the game was likely unwinnable then taking the "L" because you "played a rookie substantial minutes" is a red herring argument when the rest of the team arguably came out flat footed and injured.

Edit : "You" is not really directed at anyone.

[magik9113]

yea to me Black deserved some more time based on his play and of course the injuries. Maybe we see that tonight

[eyriq]

Garland was 26 pts and 9 assists on Zero TOs. Black was awful defensively in this assignment. The absence of Suggs was noticeable on Black's play.

Black played 15 mins

I can only listen in via radio, but I left feeling pretty good about Black vs Garland. Black seemed to be one of the only players like Paulo with a "make something happen" attitude. I have no idea why he was benched. I am sorry if this goes against the grain. If you comment on how the game was likely unwinnable then taking the "L" because you "played a rookie substantial minutes" is a red herring argument when the rest of the team arguably came out flat footed and injured.

Edit : "You" is not really directed at anyone.

You are preaching to the choir! SOUL makes good points about why Black is being limited, but I still feel like he should be getting more burn.

[JoshuaPotter]

Black played 15 mins

I can only listen in via radio, but I left feeling pretty good about Black vs Garland. Black seemed to be one of the only players like Paulo with a "make something happen" attitude. I have no idea why he was benched. I am sorry if this goes against the grain. If you comment on how the game was likely unwinnable then taking the "L" because you "played a rookie substantial minutes" is a red herring argument when the rest of the team arguably came out flat footed and injured.

Edit : "You" is not really directed at anyone.

You are preaching to the choir! SOUL makes good points about why Black is being limited, but I still feel like he should be getting more burn.

yea to me Black deserved some more time based on his play and of course the injuries. Maybe we see that tonight

I am not denying that playing black substantial minutes every game will contribute to "L". Yet there are so many other reasons for the Cavs loss. Example Cavs game even had Franz laying a very very rare egg. Massive egg. Yuge egg. Much wow egg.

In games like the cavs, especially where Black seems to be cutting, playing defense and attempting to get steals. Limiting him to 15 minutes when he is bringing energy in a "we play by committee" coach attitude seems off to me.

I lay this at your feet.