2024 - The Magic Plan

[Bensational]

By that I mean 2 seasons after drafting Franz and Suggs nothing with the roster has really changed. 1 season after drafting Paolo and coming off a season where he wins rookie of the year. It's not really like anyone is coming away from some of these losses with hot takes nobody knew about 2 seasons ago. The point guard position is an issue and we have a lot of depth for bigs assuming everyone is healthy (they never are)...

That’s inaccurate. Currently all 3 others starters are different to when we drafted Franz and Suggs. We have a new starting C and PG since Paolo started. And the team is 19-14 and top 5 instead of fighting for the play-in.

They may not be the headline moves people want to see but they have lead to the most critical headline which is “we’re now winning”.

Mavs and Hawks are absolutely on the hot seat with their guys. They have tried everything to show Trae and Luka they are serious. OKC is the other more pertinent example now showing that it doesn't take 6 seasons to build a roster if you have talent and assets. The difference is that Orlando doesn't have 10 first round picks to spend in the next 3 seasons regardless of where they land. They have cap space and thats it. Injured overpaid losers that will walk in the offseason dont net the team anything back.

This is SGA’s 6th season though, not his 2nd or 3rd. Their new rebuild started the same season ours did, when SGA was established and they were adding to him.

I wouldn’t want to be in the situations that Dallas or Atlanta are in and I think they got there by rushing into player trades before knowing what they had.

[byeganyo]

Looking at the top ten in minutes list, I don't really see a path where we go out and acquire a PG. Cole is a lock for the rotation, as is Suggs.

Improving on Cole is the easiest thing structurally, give his minutes to someone with a better 3pt shot and a bit less tunnel vision, and we are good to go.

[byeganyo]

So, I am not trying to inject a plan now....but what is the rush for "this season" again?

If Simmons is on the chopping block, sure make the offer with the expiring and picks + picks swaps.

But otherwise, why?

I get it, we are way ahead of where we thought we would be by any available metric. At some point though, we got to let Paulo + Franz play and see where a 2/3 year dude takes us. It's clear we got something special on our hands. Why not let it cook until the end of the season and see how Black jumps from year 1 to year 2?

Our Lineup
Black - R
Suggs - 3
Franz - 3
Paulo -2
Goga - Career Journeyman

We are overachieving and giving young guys considerable playing time. I am not even sure if this is the time we look to get into the 2nd or 3rd round.

In the 3rd season of Dwight and Jameer we made the playoffs, in the 4th reached the 2nd round and in the 5th season - made the finals. We traded for Rashard Lewis after two seasons of Dwight.
This is not the ultimate blueprint for success but more often than not you have to pull the trigger sooner than later and we are really not overachieving that much in terms of timeline, more like proving that this is a roster with potential. how big it is we will learn in a year or two.

[JoshuaPotter]

So, I am not trying to inject a plan now....but what is the rush for "this season" again?

If Simmons is on the chopping block, sure make the offer with the expiring and picks + picks swaps.

But otherwise, why?

I get it, we are way ahead of where we thought we would be by any available metric. At some point though, we got to let Paulo + Franz play and see where a 2/3 year dude takes us. It's clear we got something special on our hands. Why not let it cook until the end of the season and see how Black jumps from year 1 to year 2?

Our Lineup
Black - R
Suggs - 3
Franz - 3
Paulo -2
Goga - Career Journeyman

We are overachieving and giving young guys considerable playing time. I am not even sure if this is the time we look to get into the 2nd or 3rd round.

In the 3rd season of Dwight and Jameer we made the playoffs, in the 4th reached the 2nd round and in the 5th season - made the finals. We traded for Rashard Lewis after two seasons of Dwight.
This is not the ultimate blueprint for success but more often than not you have to pull the trigger sooner than later and we are really not overachieving that much in terms of timeline, more like proving that this is a roster with potential. how big it is we will learn in a year or two.

Iirc Shaq made it into the playoffs year 2 as well. I am not going to sit here saying i know how this will translate into the modern NBA. It's clearly an indicator of having something special while also looking at some of our lineup and saying that we may be wanting to move on from certain players too soon.

I am currently the biggest fan of veterans looking to mentor and ground a young team. Think another Ingles over Simmons.

[Optimus_Steel]

We need to load this team up with shooters. Imagine having a PG & SG that consistently can knock down an open 3. This team would be pretty damn good if we had those two types of players.

Not just good, elite.

[Skybox]

So, I am not trying to inject a plan now....but what is the rush for "this season" again?

If Simmons is on the chopping block, sure make the offer with the expiring and picks + picks swaps.

But otherwise, why?

I get it, we are way ahead of where we thought we would be by any available metric. At some point though, we got to let Paulo + Franz play and see where a 2/3 year dude takes us. It's clear we got something special on our hands. Why not let it cook until the end of the season and see how Black jumps from year 1 to year 2?

Our Lineup
Black - R
Suggs - 3
Franz - 3
Paulo -2
Goga - Career Journeyman

We are overachieving and giving young guys considerable playing time. I am not even sure if this is the time we look to get into the 2nd or 3rd round.

In the 3rd season of Dwight and Jameer we made the playoffs, in the 4th reached the 2nd round and in the 5th season - made the finals. We traded for Rashard Lewis after two seasons of Dwight.
This is not the ultimate blueprint for success but more often than not you have to pull the trigger sooner than later and we are really not overachieving that much in terms of timeline, more like proving that this is a roster with potential. how big it is we will learn in a year or two.

Iirc Shaq made it into the playoffs year 2 as well. I am not going to sit here saying i know how this will translate into the modern NBA. It's clearly an indicator of having something special while also looking at some of our lineup and saying that we may be wanting to move on from certain players too soon.

I am currently the biggest fan of veterans looking to mentor and ground a young team. Think another Ingles over Simmons.

I love Ingles but he’s another guy who looks great in street clothes for us…I really dont care that “he’s like an Assistant Coach”. Maybe that’s his next role…off the salary cap.

I know you mean a healthy version…who do you have in mind?

I really like Kyle Anderson, possibly Conley, as upcoming FA “mentor types” that might take a smaller role and a smaller paycheck to spend their last couple years in ORL…they’re maybe not realistic as MIN is also doing well…but it’s COLD

[eyriq]

The more I think about it I actually don't hate a plan that pays a premium for super subs and fills major roles from within. I'm just too high on Black to advocate blocking his PT, and I think Suggs is a keeper. I want to see Jett have a chance to be our shooter. Overpaying super subs, with the premium paying them off to take a bench role behind young guns, is a good strategy up until Paolo's extension.

[JoshuaPotter]

The more I think about it I actually don't hate a plan that pays a premium for super subs and fills major roles from within. I'm just too high on Black to advocate blocking his PT, and I think Suggs is a keeper. I want to see Jett have a chance to be our shooter. Overpaying super subs, with the premium paying them off to take a bench role behind young guns, is a good strategy up until Paolo's extension.

That is kinda my point. On paper, very little is broken with our development process.

You get too good of a guard via trade. You have to bench Black (if you kept him in said trade), depending on pieces moved, deep deep G league bench Black. There is no way around it. Black may never make it past being benched....

I do not see Suggs role being diminished. Black, is showing the flashes of potential about halfway through the season, but not surprisingly its because injury is green lighting him to take a larger role. Which is telling me he is "following orders" rather then looking out for himself.

As others have also pointed out. Him playing a larger role doesn't seem to be equating to wins.

[VFX]

The more I think about it I actually don't hate a plan that pays a premium for super subs and fills major roles from within. I'm just too high on Black to advocate blocking his PT, and I think Suggs is a keeper. I want to see Jett have a chance to be our shooter. Overpaying super subs, with the premium paying them off to take a bench role behind young guns, is a good strategy up until Paolo's extension.

That is kinda my point. On paper, very little is broken with our development process.

You get too good of a guard via trade. You have to bench Black (if you kept him in said trade), depending on pieces moved, deep deep G league bench Black. There is no way around it. Black may never make it past being benched....

I do not see Suggs role being diminished. Black, is showing the flashes of potential about halfway through the season, but not surprisingly its because injury is green lighting him to take a larger role. Which is telling me he is "following orders" rather then looking out for himself.

As others have also pointed out. Him playing a larger role doesn't seem to be equating to wins.

That’s kinda what a lot of us were echoing this offseason.

You have to pick a lane at some point. If you are expecting to be solidly a playoff team, then you probably aren’t going to start 4 guys all on their rookie deals. It’s just not really ideal to develop everyone and have the same exact expectations you had for the last 8 years with a veteran led team.

Black is a rookie in year 1 and those players don’t contribute heavily to wins unless their names are Lebron James and Luka Doncic.

I’m all in on finding a point guard for the interim. Black can still get minutes if Fultz is going to Fultz and guys are dropping like flies to injury.

[JoshuaPotter]

The more I think about it I actually don't hate a plan that pays a premium for super subs and fills major roles from within. I'm just too high on Black to advocate blocking his PT, and I think Suggs is a keeper. I want to see Jett have a chance to be our shooter. Overpaying super subs, with the premium paying them off to take a bench role behind young guns, is a good strategy up until Paolo's extension.

That is kinda my point. On paper, very little is broken with our development process.

You get too good of a guard via trade. You have to bench Black (if you kept him in said trade), depending on pieces moved, deep deep G league bench Black. There is no way around it. Black may never make it past being benched....

I do not see Suggs role being diminished. Black, is showing the flashes of potential about halfway through the season, but not surprisingly its because injury is green lighting him to take a larger role. Which is telling me he is "following orders" rather then looking out for himself.

As others have also pointed out. Him playing a larger role doesn't seem to be equating to wins.

That’s kinda what a lot of us were echoing this offseason.

You have to pick a lane at some point. If you are expecting to be solidly a playoff team, then you probably aren’t going to start 4 guys all on their rookie deals. It’s just not really ideal to develop everyone and have the same exact expectations you had for the last 8 years with a veteran led team.

Black is a rookie in year 1 and those players don’t contribute heavily to wins unless their names are Lebron James and Luka Doncic.

I’m all in on finding a point guard for the interim. Black can still get minutes if Fultz is going to Fultz and guys are dropping like flies to injury.

In my mind we continue to say the same thing from different perspectives. My current state is Fultz & JI need to be shopped as expiring and we can dangle a couple picks. 2-3 because if we keep Black + Jett I do not see a reason to need a new draft pick in the tweens for the next couple years.

As you said before, and I agreed with it then, and just settled into "this is our life still" as a Magic fan. The time to shop Fultz and get maximum value was when he was playing. Not when he is taking 2 months off for a knee injury.

JI, is a complicated mess. He is likely going to just be an expiring or filler in a trade.

[Skybox]

That is kinda my point. On paper, very little is broken with our development process.

You get too good of a guard via trade. You have to bench Black (if you kept him in said trade), depending on pieces moved, deep deep G league bench Black. There is no way around it. Black may never make it past being benched....

I do not see Suggs role being diminished. Black, is showing the flashes of potential about halfway through the season, but not surprisingly its because injury is green lighting him to take a larger role. Which is telling me he is "following orders" rather then looking out for himself.

As others have also pointed out. Him playing a larger role doesn't seem to be equating to wins.

That’s kinda what a lot of us were echoing this offseason.

You have to pick a lane at some point. If you are expecting to be solidly a playoff team, then you probably aren’t going to start 4 guys all on their rookie deals. It’s just not really ideal to develop everyone and have the same exact expectations you had for the last 8 years with a veteran led team.

Black is a rookie in year 1 and those players don’t contribute heavily to wins unless their names are Lebron James and Luka Doncic.

I’m all in on finding a point guard for the interim. Black can still get minutes if Fultz is going to Fultz and guys are dropping like flies to injury.

In my mind we continue to say the same thing from different perspectives. My current state is Fultz & JI need to be shopped as expiring and we can dangle a couple picks. 2-3 because if we keep Black + Jett I do not see a reason to need a new draft pick in the tweens for the next couple years.

As you said before, and I agreed with it then, and just settled into "this is our life still" as a Magic fan. The time to shop Fultz and get maximum value was when he was playing. Not when he is taking 2 months off for a knee injury.

JI, is a complicated mess. He is likely going to just be an expiring or filler in a trade.

Agree with you both...I'd like to see Black continue to get minutes but we need a guard that can score...so, IMO, it's Black or Suggs in the starting lineup. Black is big enough and feisty enough to play other spots too...at least, for the time being. He could play up to the 4 spot in certain lineups, IMO. I'd love to see him just being disruptive defensively, exploiting matchups, developing an offensive rebounding habit, pressing weak ball handlers...he's got a lot of contributions, but at the moment, he's not helping us offensively as a starting PG....I'm crazy about Suggs and am still hoping for the big offensive breakout we've seen glimpses of but, for now, one of them should pair with Cole in the second unit. Black's size maybe makes him more of a candidate as he can find minutes at multiple positions...while we figure him out. I'm not rooting for it, but we might have to at least considering moving Black or Suggs for a true scorer...they both should have big value. The NBA office is not doing anything to encourage defense-only teams these days.