ImageImageImageImage

No elephant in the room, What do we do about J.Isaac

Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass

User avatar
VFX
RealGM
Posts: 18,306
And1: 16,186
Joined: May 30, 2016

Re: No elephant in the room, What do we do about J.Isaac 

Post#121 » by VFX » Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:09 pm

Fortune Teller wrote:I'm not so sure the best way to characterize this season for JI is a regression. He's barely played over the course of his 8 years here so it's impossible to really expect anything specific from him. So while it may technically be a statistical regression from last season it's certainly not a surprising one.

Last summer most people on this board were saying it was a no-brainer to re-sign him because even in limited minutes his production was worth his salary. The flaw in that logic, as I pointed out then, is that there was zero evidence to suggest he would even be able to repeat last season's performance, as mid as it was.

Last season was an anomaly health-wise because he actually made it through the whole season, but he looked spent in the playoffs and was completely ineffective against the Cavs when it mattered most. His numbers were better last season and he looked more mobile but he was playing a paltry 15.8 mpg and still missed 24 games. If you take off your Orlando Magic glasses what he's doing this year isn't surprising at all and that's why no team in the NBA would still be paying this guy what the Magic are in his 8th year of sporadic, inconsistent production and health.

Cue the "but they had to spend the $26 million somewhere so we might as well keep re-signing these same broken players" posts.


The main issue I have with JI isn’t just availability. Even though that’s obviously been his biggest issue for his career.

My issue with him is his role on this team relative to his overall value as a player.

Now, if you were to tell me Orlando was built like say… Cleveland… and a huge portion of their cap was tied up in two A+ to B+ back court players, who they rely on for scoring output, then I can absolutely see paying a player like JI a good chunk of money to be your defensive pillar.

That’s just not the case here.

JI will never have a big role on this roster. He’s playing behind two 6’10 forwards that by all clear indications are absolutely required to be on the floor for the offense to work even on a basic level. That is all just factually true even before we factor in the notion of his health and how they treat his minutes.

A secondary unit with Moe Wagner getting a million touches is really the only reason JI is worth anything right now. Wagners abysmal defense for a big keeps JI slightly relevant. Still, he’s not irreplaceable. The minutes just don’t exist.

I do believe he’s still overpaid for what he’s actually providing. Why? Because I’d rather the second unit actually have those resources spent elsewhere. His value as an asset is better served in a trade and not some random 12-14 mpg defending against the bench units of opposing teams when Paolo happens to not be in the game.

Discussing JI as anything other than that is just pure homerism Vin Diesel family meme crap. And I wouldn’t be surprised if ownership just loves him for every other reason outside of basketball, which shouldn’t really be how they make decisions. Then again, they’d have the entire graduating Michigan basketball team in Osceola if they could.
The-Stallion70
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,920
And1: 703
Joined: Mar 22, 2022

Re: No elephant in the room, What do we do about J.Isaac 

Post#122 » by The-Stallion70 » Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:54 pm

He's probably overpaid but I don't immediately see the need to trade him. Having an elite defender 15mpg isn't really a bad problem to have.
California Gold wrote:This is extra because people hate the Lakers and their brand so much.

This trade wasn't some conspiracy - it was just a GM wanting AD bad enough where in most people's eyes he overpaid by a long shot to get him.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 36,085
And1: 14,029
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: No elephant in the room, What do we do about J.Isaac 

Post#123 » by basketballRob » Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:02 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
fendilim wrote:JI was a good complement for Moe. Now there is no one to cover JI’s lack of offense. And JI’s isn’t able to be a weakside defender too.
I liked the Wendell and JI tandem coming off the bench

I've hated it, the offense has been dreadful in these minutes, awful spacing and brick after brick from 3 by both, and the defense hasn't been good enough to make up for it.
It would be a good lineup for Cole to thrive in.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
Skybox
RealGM
Posts: 18,348
And1: 8,412
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: No elephant in the room, What do we do about J.Isaac 

Post#124 » by Skybox » Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:14 pm

VFX wrote:
Fortune Teller wrote:I'm not so sure the best way to characterize this season for JI is a regression. He's barely played over the course of his 8 years here so it's impossible to really expect anything specific from him. So while it may technically be a statistical regression from last season it's certainly not a surprising one.

Last summer most people on this board were saying it was a no-brainer to re-sign him because even in limited minutes his production was worth his salary. The flaw in that logic, as I pointed out then, is that there was zero evidence to suggest he would even be able to repeat last season's performance, as mid as it was.

Last season was an anomaly health-wise because he actually made it through the whole season, but he looked spent in the playoffs and was completely ineffective against the Cavs when it mattered most. His numbers were better last season and he looked more mobile but he was playing a paltry 15.8 mpg and still missed 24 games. If you take off your Orlando Magic glasses what he's doing this year isn't surprising at all and that's why no team in the NBA would still be paying this guy what the Magic are in his 8th year of sporadic, inconsistent production and health.

Cue the "but they had to spend the $26 million somewhere so we might as well keep re-signing these same broken players" posts.


The main issue I have with JI isn’t just availability. Even though that’s obviously been his biggest issue for his career.

My issue with him is his role on this team relative to his overall value as a player.

Now, if you were to tell me Orlando was built like say… Cleveland… and a huge portion of their cap was tied up in two A+ to B+ back court players, who they rely on for scoring output, then I can absolutely see paying a player like JI a good chunk of money to be your defensive pillar.

That’s just not the case here.

JI will never have a big role on this roster. He’s playing behind two 6’10 forwards that by all clear indications are absolutely required to be on the floor for the offense to work even on a basic level. That is all just factually true even before we factor in the notion of his health and how they treat his minutes.

A secondary unit with Moe Wagner getting a million touches is really the only reason JI is worth anything right now. Wagners abysmal defense for a big keeps JI slightly relevant. Still, he’s not irreplaceable. The minutes just don’t exist.

I do believe he’s still overpaid for what he’s actually providing. Why? Because I’d rather the second unit actually have those resources spent elsewhere. His value as an asset is better served in a trade and not some random 12-14 mpg defending against the bench units of opposing teams when Paolo happens to not be in the game.

Discussing JI as anything other than that is just pure homerism Vin Diesel family meme crap. And I wouldn’t be surprised if ownership just loves him for every other reason outside of basketball, which shouldn’t really be how they make decisions. Then again, they’d have the entire graduating Michigan basketball team in Osceola if they could.


I think KCP could absorb some of the Isaac "free safety" defensive roamer minutes and give a guard who can score some minutes if anybody would be interested in JI. Another team should. I believe he's tremendously impactful but we just have SO much defense & SO little offense that I'd give him up. I understand that KCP isn't meeting Embiid at the rim like Isaac might, but we not only need offensive help, but we need a spot in the rotation to deploy them. Isaac will never be more attractive than now - his contract is beautiful for a trade - send out $25m for Isaac and next year, it's magically $15m for the next few years (quite a bit unguaranteed). KCP is big for a guard, strong, long and most definitely "game" defensively. He makes no sense as strictly Suggs' backcourt mate/mirror image, but he's awesome defensively and I still believe he didn't just forget how to shoot for the rest of his life. :o

Because of Isaac's contract, I'd be fine keeping him...but "ditching Caleb or Cole" does not bring you back anything without substantial draft equity. If the right move presented, I'd drive Isaac to the airport.

Return to Orlando Magic