2024-2025 NBA Playoffs Round 1, Game 4: (2) Boston Celtics at (7) Orlando Magic - 7pm ET

[eyriq]

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[RookieStar]

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Older injured guard thats gonna miss a year?

Come on down

[SOUL]

Mose > Spo

[byeganyo]

Sure, ridiculous takes are frustrating no matter how they are delivered. But pretending that optimism automatically makes a take ridiculous is exactly the kind of negativity gatekeeping I am talking about. Smart people should be able to tell the difference between bad logic and a reasonable, evidence-based positive outlook. Not all optimism is unserious, and not all pessimism is wise.

I knew you'd take the bait

The problem isn't optimism or negativity. The problem is the CLEARLY unrealistic versions of both and the hardcore defense of things that are simply beyond the pale of reality.

You'll notice I and many others who you deem are "gatekeeping negativity" are some of the first ones to immediately shutdown nonsense from posters like SHAQ32 when he says Franz stinks and should be traded or when that guy djguerrva or whatever his name is said in all seriousness with Paolo should be traded for Deni Avdija.

Nonsense in either direction - positive or negative - should be called out for exactly what it is.

You keep trying to frame yourself as some neutral voice of reason, but your own posts say otherwise. Firing the front office, firing the coach, blowing up the roster, this is pure bias dressed up as objectivity. You aren't calling balls and strikes. You are constantly setting a pessimistic baseline and then acting like anyone who doesn't live in that same space is unserious. That is exactly the negativity gatekeeping I was talking about, and trying to hide it behind "realism" doesn't change what it is.

Asking for a change is not pessimism.

[Knightro]

I knew you'd take the bait

The problem isn't optimism or negativity. The problem is the CLEARLY unrealistic versions of both and the hardcore defense of things that are simply beyond the pale of reality.

You'll notice I and many others who you deem are "gatekeeping negativity" are some of the first ones to immediately shutdown nonsense from posters like SHAQ32 when he says Franz stinks and should be traded or when that guy djguerrva or whatever his name is said in all seriousness with Paolo should be traded for Deni Avdija.

Nonsense in either direction - positive or negative - should be called out for exactly what it is.

You keep trying to frame yourself as some neutral voice of reason, but your own posts say otherwise. Firing the front office, firing the coach, blowing up the roster, this is pure bias dressed up as objectivity. You aren't calling balls and strikes. You are constantly setting a pessimistic baseline and then acting like anyone who doesn't live in that same space is unserious. That is exactly the negativity gatekeeping I was talking about, and trying to hide it behind "realism" doesn't change what it is.

Asking for a change is not pessimism.

Having high expectations isn’t pessimism either.

[GelbeWand09]

Not really sure why Black is everyone whipping boy today. The kid is 21 years old and he was a late starter of basketball in high school. He was always going to take time to develop. Everyone being so angry he isn’t ready to run a pro offense against the defending champs in the playoffs is a little laughable. The absolute biggest failure of Weltman in building this team is not having a backup plan if Suggs got injured and Black wasn’t ready to run an offense… An extremely likely scenario given history. Only having Cole Anthony and Cory Joseph is criminal. This season has a lot of blame to go around and honestly Black is pretty low on my list.

Everyone needs to be better. But it starts with Mosely and Weltman. The problems are clear and Paolo and Franz need to get better but they are ready to rock we need to fix this thing. Weltman gets blame as he should he needs to balance this roster but damn Mosely is displaying a real inability to coach a pro offense. That might be my biggest disappointment of the season.

That's a complete misinterpretation of the discussion. Nobody has AB as a whipping boy, just the nonsense idea of him being a on ball PG despite that he doesn't have the skills and isn't used as one. Hell, even in HS and college he wasn't a real PG.
Almost everybody thinks he was our best roleplayer with WCJ and got a good future at his position.
I don't want AB traded. I want KCP and Cole gone as soon as it gets.

[drsd]

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This is financial inconceivable.

Lillard makes 58.5M next year, and he will pick up his option to make 63.2M in 26/27

In 2026/27, Banchero and F-Wagner will make about 42M each, and Suggs will make 32.4M.

That sums to 180M for only four players. The lux tax will be about 207M, meaning that the Magic would have 27M to fill 11 roster slots.
Isaac is on the books for 14.5, Carter 18.1, Bitadze 7.6 = the Magic is over the lux tax by 20M before signing any new players.
AND: this excludes that Magic currently has two rookies from this year and a rooki for next year that would add to that another ~10M.

In conclusion: the Magic is 30M over the lux tax in 2026/27 by adding Lillard, before a single move is made to fill out the roster. Even adding only LLE players to fill out the roster takes the Magic to about 45M over the lux tax. Which is about 22M OVER the 2nd apron.

This ain't gonna happen.

[Skybox]

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This is financial inconceivable.

Lillard makes 58.5M next year, and he will pick up his option to make 63.2M in 26/27

In 2026/27, Banchero and F-Wagner will make about 42M each, and Suggs will make 32.4M.

That sums to 180M for only four players. The lux tax will be about 207M, meaning that the Magic would have 27M to fill 11 roster slots.
Isaac is on the books for 14.5, Carter 18.1, Bitadze 7.6 = the Magic is over the lux tax by 20M before signing any new players.
AND: this excludes that Magic currently has two rookies from this year and a rooki for next year that would add to that another ~10M.

In conclusion: the Magic is 30M over the lux tax in 2026/27 by adding Lillard, before a single move is made to fill out the roster. Even adding only LLE players to fill out the roster takes the Magic to about 45M over the lux tax. Which is about 22M OVER the 2nd apron.

This ain't gonna happen.

We can probably ignore this now…
A) somebody just made it up
B) it was before he tore his 34yo Achilles

[bigdogdylan5]

Not really sure why Black is everyone whipping boy today. The kid is 21 years old and he was a late starter of basketball in high school. He was always going to take time to develop. Everyone being so angry he isn’t ready to run a pro offense against the defending champs in the playoffs is a little laughable. The absolute biggest failure of Weltman in building this team is not having a backup plan if Suggs got injured and Black wasn’t ready to run an offense… An extremely likely scenario given history. Only having Cole Anthony and Cory Joseph is criminal. This season has a lot of blame to go around and honestly Black is pretty low on my list.

Everyone needs to be better. But it starts with Mosely and Weltman. The problems are clear and Paolo and Franz need to get better but they are ready to rock we need to fix this thing. Weltman gets blame as he should he needs to balance this roster but damn Mosely is displaying a real inability to coach a pro offense. That might be my biggest disappointment of the season.

That's a complete misinterpretation of the discussion. Nobody has AB as a whipping boy, just the nonsense idea of him being a on ball PG despite that he doesn't have the skills and isn't used as one. Hell, even in HS and college he wasn't a real PG.
Almost everybody thinks he was our best roleplayer with WCJ and got a good future at his position.
I don't want AB traded. I want KCP and Cole gone as soon as it gets.

I just will never be in the business of saying a 21 year old can’t or won’t ever do something. But yes I agree we don’t use him as one.

[bigdogdylan5]

Question I have been tossing around in my head and maybe it’s unfair but is Mosely actually a good coach? Yes he really helped turn around this team last year and he is able to coach defense. But we have given him every defensive tool possible to him in spite of the other side of the ball for an area he is supposed to be the expert in. Shouldn’t a good coach be given less of the resources for his specialty side of the ball. Shouldn’t he be able to take guys that can shoot and make them better defenders? I mean the players have to have the tools but he really hasn’t shown that ability. And the offense being his weaker side is on life support. Shouldn’t we be supporting the weaker side and relying on Mosley expertise to cover the gap?

[RichCollab]

Not really sure why Black is everyone whipping boy today. The kid is 21 years old and he was a late starter of basketball in high school. He was always going to take time to develop. Everyone being so angry he isn’t ready to run a pro offense against the defending champs in the playoffs is a little laughable. The absolute biggest failure of Weltman in building this team is not having a backup plan if Suggs got injured and Black wasn’t ready to run an offense… An extremely likely scenario given history. Only having Cole Anthony and Cory Joseph is criminal. This season has a lot of blame to go around and honestly Black is pretty low on my list.

Everyone needs to be better. But it starts with Mosely and Weltman. The problems are clear and Paolo and Franz need to get better but they are ready to rock we need to fix this thing. Weltman gets blame as he should he needs to balance this roster but damn Mosely is displaying a real inability to coach a pro offense. That might be my biggest disappointment of the season.

That's a complete misinterpretation of the discussion. Nobody has AB as a whipping boy, just the nonsense idea of him being a on ball PG despite that he doesn't have the skills and isn't used as one. Hell, even in HS and college he wasn't a real PG.
Almost everybody thinks he was our best roleplayer with WCJ and got a good future at his position.
I don't want AB traded. I want KCP and Cole gone as soon as it gets.

I just will never be in the business of saying a 21 year old can’t or won’t ever do something. But yes I agree we don’t use him as one.

Do you extend this optimism to Jett?

[JoshuaPotter]

Question I have been tossing around in my head and maybe it’s unfair but is Mosely actually a good coach? Yes he really helped turn around this team last year and he is able to coach defense. But we have given him every defensive tool possible to him in spite of the other side of the ball for an area he is supposed to be the expert in. Shouldn’t a good coach be given less of the resources for his specialty side of the ball. Shouldn’t he be able to take guys that can shoot and make them better defenders? I mean the players have to have the tools but he really hasn’t shown that ability. And the offense being his weaker side is on life support. Shouldn’t we be supporting the weaker side and relying on Mosley expertise to cover the gap?

I said it at the start of the year. The weak link is Mosely.

I am not sure I agree with that statement. The real weakness might just be no actual offensive depth. Especially when your 3/4 option go down. There was nobody to step in and score. Of the current roster, Black seems to step up the most, but even he disappears.

What a mess.

[bigdogdylan5]

That's a complete misinterpretation of the discussion. Nobody has AB as a whipping boy, just the nonsense idea of him being a on ball PG despite that he doesn't have the skills and isn't used as one. Hell, even in HS and college he wasn't a real PG.
Almost everybody thinks he was our best roleplayer with WCJ and got a good future at his position.
I don't want AB traded. I want KCP and Cole gone as soon as it gets.

I just will never be in the business of saying a 21 year old can’t or won’t ever do something. But yes I agree we don’t use him as one.

Do you extend this optimism to Jett?

I disagree with saying it optimism. In my eyes it’s being realistic. I am not saying they will definitely be good or definitely be bad when you’re talking about these guys it’s very much TBD. And yes 100% this extends to Jett Howard too. His defense is a tremendous liability not dissimilar to JJ Redick coming out. JJ also came into the league at 22 and had limited minutes through first 3 years. Howard has been in the league two years and is still younger than JJ was. They are different, Jett is not the pure shooter that JJ was but he definitely has more off the bounce juice then JJ. Jett and AB both could be disappointments but as long as they are displaying work ethic which I assume they are but coaches and FO would be more aware I think you have to be patient and let them develop.

[basketballRob]

That's a complete misinterpretation of the discussion. Nobody has AB as a whipping boy, just the nonsense idea of him being a on ball PG despite that he doesn't have the skills and isn't used as one. Hell, even in HS and college he wasn't a real PG.
Almost everybody thinks he was our best roleplayer with WCJ and got a good future at his position.
I don't want AB traded. I want KCP and Cole gone as soon as it gets.

I just will never be in the business of saying a 21 year old can’t or won’t ever do something. But yes I agree we don’t use him as one.

Do you extend this optimism to Jett?

We need to follow Boston's blueprint. Langford was the #11 pick and was included in the deal for White after Langford's second season. San Antonio picked up Langford's 4th year option, and he was out of the NBA after 4 seasons. They also included Josh Richardson and the #25 pick.

So Jett, KCP, and our #25 pick for who? Cam Johnson and DLo?

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[bigdogdylan5]

Question I have been tossing around in my head and maybe it’s unfair but is Mosely actually a good coach? Yes he really helped turn around this team last year and he is able to coach defense. But we have given him every defensive tool possible to him in spite of the other side of the ball for an area he is supposed to be the expert in. Shouldn’t a good coach be given less of the resources for his specialty side of the ball. Shouldn’t he be able to take guys that can shoot and make them better defenders? I mean the players have to have the tools but he really hasn’t shown that ability. And the offense being his weaker side is on life support. Shouldn’t we be supporting the weaker side and relying on Mosley expertise to cover the gap?

I said it at the start of the year. The weak link is Mosely.

I am not sure I agree with that statement. The real weakness might just be no actual offensive depth. Especially when your 3/4 option go down. There was nobody to step in and score. Of the current roster, Black seems to step up the most, but even he disappears.

What a mess.

You’re kinda making my point though. Why do we have no offensive depth? Because we prioritized defensive role players in picks and roster construction. JI, Black, Harris, and KCP.

I don’t think it’s a mess. We have two bonafide stars who haven’t even entered their prime yet. One has the yips and as Zach Lowe said might be the best athlete to ever have the yips and still be productive. I wish we didn’t extend JI and Carter although JI just needs to get hurt and we’re out of the last two years of that contract (his contract is very much tradeable) KCP is not great but it’s only two more years and if he has a good year next year he will opt out. We don’t have a truly untradable contract. Suggs will and always be the swing guy we need him to stay healthy and continue to improve into a Jrue or White third option.