TDS JETT CALEB

[Skybox]

We run a wing-hub offense... playmaking flows through Paolo and Franz. AB handles other point guard responsibilities, especially point-of-attack defense. Role ≠ Position.

Wow...I think we're getting to the heart of eyriq vs the world...what makes a PG a PG? (not defense)

This, maybe, explains your irrational support of AB as PGOTF...despite what most would consider PG fundamentals missing...we all might just have different definitions.

Exactly. We just have different definitions. In a traditional system, AB isn’t a prototypical point guard. In a wing-hub system built around jumbo creators, he doesn’t need to be. He’s a connector, a defender, and a secondary decision-maker. The role fits the build. Calling it irrational just means you’re evaluating through the wrong lens.

Gotcha...it's like how I tend to evaluate Swimmers based on their ability to climb trees

To each his own filter, I guess. Hang in there.

[eyriq]

Wow...I think we're getting to the heart of eyriq vs the world...what makes a PG a PG? (not defense)

This, maybe, explains your irrational support of AB as PGOTF...despite what most would consider PG fundamentals missing...we all might just have different definitions.

Exactly. We just have different definitions. In a traditional system, AB isn’t a prototypical point guard. In a wing-hub system built around jumbo creators, he doesn’t need to be. He’s a connector, a defender, and a secondary decision-maker. The role fits the build. Calling it irrational just means you’re evaluating through the wrong lens.

Gotcha...it's like how I tend to evaluate Swimmers based on their ability to climb trees

To each his own filter, I guess. Hang in there.

Stay clinging to an old framework that doesn’t apply. AB fits what we are trying to do. He defends, connects, and makes the right reads, AND he's developing nicely towards a larger playmaking role.

[Fortune Teller]

We run a wing-hub offense... playmaking flows through Paolo and Franz. AB handles other point guard responsibilities, especially point-of-attack defense. Role ≠ Position.

Wow...I think we're getting to the heart of eyriq vs the world...what makes a PG a PG? (not defense)

This, maybe, explains your irrational support of AB as PGOTF...despite what most would consider PG fundamentals missing...we all might just have different definitions.

Exactly. We just have different definitions. In a traditional system, AB isn’t a prototypical point guard. In a wing-hub system built around jumbo creators, he doesn’t need to be. He’s a connector, a defender, and a secondary decision-maker. The role fits the build. Calling it irrational just means you’re evaluating through the wrong lens.

I mean, if anyone is making up their own "lens", respectfully it would appear to be you.

Here's the Merriam Webster definition of "point guard":

A guard in basketball who is chiefly responsible for running the offense.

Here's dictionary.com:

The guard who directs the team's offense from the point.

If Anthony Black is not running the offense or directing the offense when he's in the game, HE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. It doesn't matter that he's not doing those things because we run a wing-hub offense -- all that matters is he's not doing those things. And if he was particularly skilled at doing those things we probably wouldn't need to run an offense that is literally the worst in the NBA.

You can say he's a guard but no one -- and I would contend this includes Jeff -- no one views him as the "point guard of the future" when he does nothing to fit the definition of a point guard.

[eyriq]

Wow...I think we're getting to the heart of eyriq vs the world...what makes a PG a PG? (not defense)

This, maybe, explains your irrational support of AB as PGOTF...despite what most would consider PG fundamentals missing...we all might just have different definitions.

Exactly. We just have different definitions. In a traditional system, AB isn’t a prototypical point guard. In a wing-hub system built around jumbo creators, he doesn’t need to be. He’s a connector, a defender, and a secondary decision-maker. The role fits the build. Calling it irrational just means you’re evaluating through the wrong lens.

I mean, if anyone is making up their own "lens", respectfully it would appear to be you.

Here's the Merriam Webster definition of "point guard":

A guard in basketball who is chiefly responsible for running the offense.

Here's dictionary.com:

The guard who directs the team's offense from the point.

If Anthony Black is not running the offense or directing the offense when he's in the game, HE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. It doesn't matter that he's not doing those things because we run a wing-hub offense -- all that matters is he's not doing those things. And if he was particularly skilled at doing those things we probably wouldn't need to run an offense that is literally the worst in the NBA.

You can say he's a guard but no one -- and I would contend this includes Jeff -- no one views him as the "point guard of the future" when he does nothing to fit the definition of a point guard.

If you're hanging your whole argument on a dictionary definition, you're kinda missing the point. AB does what this system needs from a lead guard: defend, move the ball, make smart decisions. Paolo and Franz run the offense, by design. That’s the model. If you’re expecting a traditional PG in a non-traditional setup, you’re just setting yourself up to be mad about nothing.

If they actually do acquire a traditional point guard I'll eat crow. There are very few of those anymore though.

[Skybox]

Exactly. We just have different definitions. In a traditional system, AB isn’t a prototypical point guard. In a wing-hub system built around jumbo creators, he doesn’t need to be. He’s a connector, a defender, and a secondary decision-maker. The role fits the build. Calling it irrational just means you’re evaluating through the wrong lens.

I mean, if anyone is making up their own "lens", respectfully it would appear to be you.

Here's the Merriam Webster definition of "point guard":

A guard in basketball who is chiefly responsible for running the offense.

Here's dictionary.com:

The guard who directs the team's offense from the point.

If Anthony Black is not running the offense or directing the offense when he's in the game, HE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. It doesn't matter that he's not doing those things because we run a wing-hub offense -- all that matters is he's not doing those things. And if he was particularly skilled at doing those things we probably wouldn't need to run an offense that is literally the worst in the NBA.

You can say he's a guard but no one -- and I would contend this includes Jeff -- no one views him as the "point guard of the future" when he does nothing to fit the definition of a point guard.

If you're hanging your whole argument on a dictionary definition, you're kinda missing the point. AB does what this system needs from a lead guard: defend, move the ball, make smart decisions. Paolo and Franz run the offense, by design. That’s the model. If you’re expecting a traditional PG in a non-traditional setup, you’re just setting yourself up to be mad about nothing.

If they actually do acquire a traditional point guard I'll eat crow. There are very few of those anymore though.

Pepe rolling his eyes at me for swallowing the hook AGAIN

If AB is doing what the system needs from a Lead Guard, who are the deadbeats causing us to have THE WORST offense in the league?

Franz, Paolo?

[eyriq]

I mean, if anyone is making up their own "lens", respectfully it would appear to be you.

Here's the Merriam Webster definition of "point guard":

A guard in basketball who is chiefly responsible for running the offense.

Here's dictionary.com:

The guard who directs the team's offense from the point.

If Anthony Black is not running the offense or directing the offense when he's in the game, HE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. It doesn't matter that he's not doing those things because we run a wing-hub offense -- all that matters is he's not doing those things. And if he was particularly skilled at doing those things we probably wouldn't need to run an offense that is literally the worst in the NBA.

You can say he's a guard but no one -- and I would contend this includes Jeff -- no one views him as the "point guard of the future" when he does nothing to fit the definition of a point guard.

If you're hanging your whole argument on a dictionary definition, you're kinda missing the point. AB does what this system needs from a lead guard: defend, move the ball, make smart decisions. Paolo and Franz run the offense, by design. That’s the model. If you’re expecting a traditional PG in a non-traditional setup, you’re just setting yourself up to be mad about nothing.

If they actually do acquire a traditional point guard I'll eat crow. There are very few of those anymore though.

Pepe rolling his eyes at me for swallowing the hook AGAIN

If AB is doing what the system needs from a Lead Guard, who are the deadbeats causing us to have THE WORST offense in the league?

Franz, Paolo?

If you think AB is driving the offense, you’ve missed the whole idea. He’s a role guy. For the millionth time, Paolo and Franz are the engines.

[Skybox]

If you're hanging your whole argument on a dictionary definition, you're kinda missing the point. AB does what this system needs from a lead guard: defend, move the ball, make smart decisions. Paolo and Franz run the offense, by design. That’s the model. If you’re expecting a traditional PG in a non-traditional setup, you’re just setting yourself up to be mad about nothing.

If they actually do acquire a traditional point guard I'll eat crow. There are very few of those anymore though.

Pepe rolling his eyes at me for swallowing the hook AGAIN

If AB is doing what the system needs from a Lead Guard, who are the deadbeats causing us to have THE WORST offense in the league?

Franz, Paolo?

If you think AB is driving the offense, you’ve missed the whole idea. He’s a role guy. For the millionth time, Paolo and Franz are the engines.

so Franz and Paolo at 25/6/5 every night are not holding up their end while AB excels at his "special PG" role that involves no assists and minimal points? (just want to make sure I'm getting it)

[eyriq]

Pepe rolling his eyes at me for swallowing the hook AGAIN

If AB is doing what the system needs from a Lead Guard, who are the deadbeats causing us to have THE WORST offense in the league?

Franz, Paolo?

If you think AB is driving the offense, you’ve missed the whole idea. He’s a role guy. For the millionth time, Paolo and Franz are the engines.

so Franz and Paolo at 25/6/5 every night are not holding up their end while AB excels at his "special PG" role that involves no assists and minimal points? (just want to make sure I'm getting it)

Yes, you’re getting it. AB’s not the engine, he’s the glue. If that breaks your brain, maybe don’t watch a team built around jumbo wings.

[Skybox]

If you think AB is driving the offense, you’ve missed the whole idea. He’s a role guy. For the millionth time, Paolo and Franz are the engines.

so Franz and Paolo at 25/6/5 every night are not holding up their end while AB excels at his "special PG" role that involves no assists and minimal points? (just want to make sure I'm getting it)

Yes, you’re getting it. AB’s not the engine, he’s the glue. If that breaks your brain, maybe don’t watch a team built around jumbo wings.

Got it...dump those failures. Build around the statless "glue"

[Knightro]

Back to the topic at hand...

Personally, I just don't trust Houstan, Jett or da Silva to play 20+ minutes off the bench in a playoff game next season.

I'd love to be wrong on any of them, but I'm just not there at this point.

I think the Magic need one more capable body off the bench that can be the 8th man in a playoff series (assuming the top 7 are the current starters + Black + whoever the backup center is).

Isaac could fill minutes if he plays like 23-24 Isaac, but that's such a risky proposition too.

[JBSouthpaw]

Wow...I think we're getting to the heart of eyriq vs the world...what makes a PG a PG? (not defense)

This, maybe, explains your irrational support of AB as PGOTF...despite what most would consider PG fundamentals missing...we all might just have different definitions.

Exactly. We just have different definitions. In a traditional system, AB isn’t a prototypical point guard. In a wing-hub system built around jumbo creators, he doesn’t need to be. He’s a connector, a defender, and a secondary decision-maker. The role fits the build. Calling it irrational just means you’re evaluating through the wrong lens.

I mean, if anyone is making up their own "lens", respectfully it would appear to be you.

Here's the Merriam Webster definition of "point guard":

A guard in basketball who is chiefly responsible for running the offense.

Here's dictionary.com:

The guard who directs the team's offense from the point.

If Anthony Black is not running the offense or directing the offense when he's in the game, HE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. It doesn't matter that he's not doing those things because we run a wing-hub offense -- all that matters is he's not doing those things. And if he was particularly skilled at doing those things we probably wouldn't need to run an offense that is literally the worst in the NBA.

You can say he's a guard but no one -- and I would contend this includes Jeff -- no one views him as the "point guard of the future" when he does nothing to fit the definition of a point guard.

I thought a handful of years ago position definition was universality excepted as "who you guard" in the NBA?

[Skybox]

As the primary violator...I'd like to suggest we keep the eyriq/AB stuff in its own thread...it's spilling over into everything.

My bad...carry on.

[mattdelray1220]

Back to the topic at hand...

Personally, I just don't trust Houstan, Jett or da Silva to play 20+ minutes off the bench in a playoff game next season.

I'd love to be wrong on any of them, but I'm just not there at this point.

I think the Magic need one more capable body off the bench that can be the 8th man in a playoff series (assuming the top 7 are the current starters + Black + whoever the backup center is).

Isaac could fill minutes if he plays like 23-24 Isaac, but that's such a risky proposition too.

This is how I feel now. BUT players do develop and get better. I do feel like TDS showed me enough to get the first crack at bench minutes of the 3. I do think though Jett needs a legit opportunity at some point. Caleb to me is the perfect 3rd SG/SF on the roster for us. 12th 13th man if you will. He is known to be the hardest worker on the team. He definitely improved on defense last year. You think like a Taurean Prince type player over them? Veteran, shoots 3's been on playoff runs.

[VFX]

Exactly. We just have different definitions. In a traditional system, AB isn’t a prototypical point guard. In a wing-hub system built around jumbo creators, he doesn’t need to be. He’s a connector, a defender, and a secondary decision-maker. The role fits the build. Calling it irrational just means you’re evaluating through the wrong lens.

I mean, if anyone is making up their own "lens", respectfully it would appear to be you.

Here's the Merriam Webster definition of "point guard":

A guard in basketball who is chiefly responsible for running the offense.

Here's dictionary.com:

The guard who directs the team's offense from the point.

If Anthony Black is not running the offense or directing the offense when he's in the game, HE IS NOT A POINT GUARD. It doesn't matter that he's not doing those things because we run a wing-hub offense -- all that matters is he's not doing those things. And if he was particularly skilled at doing those things we probably wouldn't need to run an offense that is literally the worst in the NBA.

You can say he's a guard but no one -- and I would contend this includes Jeff -- no one views him as the "point guard of the future" when he does nothing to fit the definition of a point guard.

I thought a handful of years ago position definition was universality excepted as "who you guard" in the NBA?

That is what position-less argument ultimately devolves into because it is nonsense that isn't rooted in reality.

Positions come down to skillsets. Luka Doncic is labeled a "point guard" because he has the skillset at 6'7 230. He isn't guarding point guards exclusively though. Actually, most defenses are switch anyway so that argument doesn't even really make sense. Ben Simmons can get 7-8 assists per game and isn't guarding opposing point guards.

So if AB isn't getting assists and the cope is that he's more of a "connector" now is he really a point guard? Sure, he can guard 1-3 because of his size and athleticism. I see no difference between him and Matisse Thybulle though in terms of what they are actually doing on a court or what role they are playing.

Basically the only player projection you can actually come up for AB as a "point guard" profile is Shaun Livingston. Good player, but ended up being a bench guy in a 14 year career. That player is fine I guess. But he did nothing really at an elite level except defend multi positionally. Last time I checked that wasn't a huge weakness for Orlando. Not sure a large second deal will be worth it if he doesn't develop something else.

This team needs a Pritchard, McConnell, Jerome level of playmaker off the bench. Not some utility guy that cant make things happen himself and that relies on everyone else to be effective.

[VFX]

Anyway back to the topic at hand.

Caleb Houstan has to prove he isn't some reserve player this season. He played in 58 games this year and there are many other better players capable of what he provides that could possibly even be found in the draft. This is his last contract year with the team and they have a team option on him.

TDS, who knows if he's quick enough to guard SF's or big enough to guard PF's. He's basically a tweener Forward dependent on matchups. And like everyone else on this roster his effectiveness hinges on being more consistent from outside.

Jett shouldn't see minutes. I dont expect him to be on this roster next season.

[cedric76]

Make or break year for Jett

https://youtu.be/yR5H9e4ZC40?si=yCXvDdtN-r-F8tma