ORL Magic Identity Issues

thepantypeeler · Post #1 » by **thepantypeeler** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:59 pm

I think I have spotted the reasoning behind our team playing so inconsistently.

I believe that teams in the NBA take on the personality of their star player. At this point in his career, Dwight is still yet to really assert himself as a leader on this team. I think Hedo has proven himself to be the leader of this team and as I said before, teams take on the identity of their star player. I still say Hedo doesn't always play hard, and this reflects on our team.

Even though Rashard makes triple what Hedo does, he has simply proven himself too passive to lead a team. Not only this, but Hedo has been a tremendously better player then Rashard overall. Hedo is always slashing, kicking out, setting other people up, hitting huge shots. The downside to this is, Hedo doesn't always try hard and can be inconsistent. This reflects on the team because they follow his lead.

I do feel Rashard has been great for us though. If Hedo is Mr. Fourth Quarter, Rashard is Mr. First Half. If you watch the games, Rashard always carries us in the first half, slashing, getting trips to the free throw line, scoring. But that's a whole topic for another day

Cigamodnalro · Post #2 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:09 pm

Gospel. Everyone from Doc Rivers to Brian Hill has preached that we have, buried in our roster, a player who understands the tenets of leadership and of effort. He has been dubbed everything from "Mr. Fundamental" to "Blue Collar Guy" by coaches and staff. Garrity's getting up there, but if this team is serious about creating a positive identity for itself, they'll give good old Paddy a big white "C" on his jersey and twenty or thirty shots a game to show his grit and his worth.

OrlandoMagic · Post #3 » by **OrlandoMagic** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:10 pm

were 3rd in the EAST right now, our team is fine.... Everybody needs to stop with the whats wrong with the Magic threads, or our play in inconsistent, or heres how to fix our team threads. Were on course to be a top 4 in the East home court advantage in the 1st rd. On top of that we have 3 players who all could be or have been considered All Stars at some point. And if I see one more thread about Lewis is doing crappy at PF. Im going to puke. Do people really think we would be better off moving Hedo to the bench and Lewis to the 3 spot?

And sorry panty Im not aiming this toward you but I see threads all the time that annoy me.

thepantypeeler · Post #4 » by **thepantypeeler** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:20 pm

i understand what youre saying, don't get me wrong. But I firmly believe this team is not big time yet, no matter the standings. Time and again we see it, we play down to the level of our competition. The Philly game is a perfect example. Yes, I love the fact that we won but it should have been much easier then that. Even the Miami game last week was incredibly frustrating (No Shaq, No Wade, No Haslem) Trust me, I was there, it was horrible. We aren't blowing bad teams out quite the way we were in the beginning of the season and I think it is indicative of something deeper

Cammo101 · Post #5 » by **Cammo101** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:25 pm

thepantypeeler wrote:i understand what youre saying, don't get me wrong. But I firmly believe this team is not big time yet, no matter the standings. Time and again we see it, we play down to the level of our competition. The Philly game is a perfect example. Yes, I love the fact that we won but it should have been much easier then that. Even the Miami game last week was incredibly frustrating (No Shaq, No Wade, No Haslem) Trust me, I was there, it was horrible. We aren't blowing bad teams out quite the way we were in the beginning of the season and I think it is indicative of something deeper

Aren't we like 8-1 in our last 9? Maybe our identity is road warriors, becuase our record on the road is sick. I do think teams take on the attitude of their stars, which is why I think our team doesn't worry when they get down and play so well in close games. Our stars are not awed by the big situations. I like that.

Max Power · Post #6 » by **Max Power** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:40 pm

I too am sick of the whining about this team on this board. We're 31-18 and people still aren't happy. When was the last time the Magic were this good? The strike year wasn't it? But that was an old team on it's last run, this is a new team that will get better. What's with the masochistic tendancies on this board anyway? Are all you guys being beaten by your wives or something?

D12Howard · Post #7 » by **D12Howard** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 10:57 pm

Arroyo has identity issues. He thinks he is John Stockton, but he is really Reece Gaines

Post #8 » by **Bensational** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 11:33 pm

wow. i can't believe how quickly some people adopt a recent win streak with "we're fine! we're good! we're great!".

i don't agree with the OP at all (i think Hedo is the bomb and can't stand seeing people hate on him), but i'm still wary that our team is a shooting slump away from taking a dive back towards battling night in and night out with Washington for Division leadersip.

we're doing great, and i'm ecstatic about that. i really am. the trick now is to look for ways to polish the team so our recent play becomes the consistent level we can expect, and so we don't see 8-14 steaks for large chunks of the season.

Optimus_Steel · Post #9 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 11:47 pm

Max Power wrote:I too am sick of the whining about this team on this board. We're 31-18 and people still aren't happy. When was the last time the Magic were this good? The strike year wasn't it? But that was an old team on it's last run, this is a new team that will get better. What's with the masochistic tendancies on this board anyway? Are all you guys being beaten by your wives or something?

I think people arent used to having a good team yet, its been a long time since the Magic were good, years. Some fans dont remember or havent been fans that long.

thepantypeeler · Post #10 » by **thepantypeeler** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:24 am

let's be real here, we've all been on this board for a while, and no one is happier with our record then I am right now.

BUT

anyone who is satisfied with how the team is playing lately is delusional. there are clearly some issues goin on, you can't tell me we should be needing ft's at the end to beat Philly.

it's not whining and it's not being unhappy, it's just being realistic. this team has the potential to be even better then we have been lately and that is all i am pointing out.

Post #11 » by **MagicMadness** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:51 am

Some of you have to remember that as a former suck team, we'd often play hard against better opponents only to ultimately lose games in the end.

Well, now we're that better opponent. We play suck teams and coast until the 3rd or 4th quarter, where we then proceed to take control. Face it, most good teams do this. Yeah, yeah, we lack that killer instinct - well then, so do the majority of professional teams everywhere. We've obviously got holes to fill if we want to win a championship, but again, so does everyone else. As for our recent "bad wins" against inferior opponents, just remember, those inferior opponents used to be us. For the first time in ages, we can actually sit back and watch a Magic game knowing that the odds are in our favor that our team will turn it on and win the game in the end.

lovehoops01 · Post #12 » by **lovehoops01** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 7:06 am

This team is pretty loose -- but also persistent. Maybe that's just the way they play. Maybe that IS their identity.

I've seen a lot of communicating going on of late between Dwight and Hedo. There definitely is some growing going on there.

Plus, with SVG just coming in this season, that has caused adjustments that the team has had to get used to also. Not to mention the fact that he keeps tinkering with the roster. And the roster changes -- adding Rashard this season, not having Grant back, trading Trevor for Mo and Cookie -- more adjustments were required for that. Everyone has taken on new roles. It doesn't happen overnight. That's why I am hoping they will decide this offseason what to do with their roster, try to get it fairly set and then let it continue to build.

In Sunday's Sentinel, Keyon said, "I'd like to see us keep this group together. We're developing a great bond.''

For the most part, I think he's right. They need to make one or two major additions using the roster spots of guys who never get to play (not including J.J. here) and try to re-sign many of these guys who really are helping the team win and then let it grow from there.

drsd · Post #13 » by **drsd** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 9:30 am

Detroit has the best "team" in the NBA outside of San Antonio. And Boston is an all-star team. Is it such a surprose the Magic would be third to those two?

The Magic are not perfect for several reasons. Lewis is learning his new role. Without Nelson, Howard struggles to get the rock (yes I just said that Dwight NEEDS Jameer to emerge domnant; for all you JN haters

), there is no depth at PF, and no NBA-quality starter at SG.

But look at teams 4-15 in the Eastern conference. Their list of warts is truly ugly. The Magic are doing just fine. They are already road warriors. And are starting to learn how to win on the road.

The current team is step I of the roster GM Smith is building. This club, and its core, were always about the 2008/2009 season. One confusion for Smith is that Turkoglu emerged as a core starter; that makes him a very tradable asset, as it would be VERY difficult to rotate Hedo back to the bench.

The Magic are two obtainable pieces away from being the best team in the East. Trade Turkoglu for a PF, an sign a starting quality SG, and the Magic are as perfect a roster as Detroit, but with a bit more gas in their tank.

PG: Nelson/Dooling or Arroyo (one, not both)
SG: Player X/Evans or Redick (one, not both)
SF: Lewis/Bogans
PF: Player Y/Battie
C: Howard/Foyle

That 10 man rotation wins a lot of games.

But what if GM Smith changes gears and keeps Turkoglu? Then the entire off season will be about getting a SG to pair with Nelson/ Turkoglu/ Lewis/ Howard. Not a particularly elaborate off season for GM Smith. But it might be just enough.

paperboymafia · Post #14 » by **paperboymafia** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 9:54 am

it is quite funny how people are still looking at the problems more then the positives, but thats only natural. we always strive for perfection, or try too...
31-18 is amazing.

we're on course for 50 wins...thats obscenely good for us as a first year with the "core" of players we have brought in...

if we were a few wins lower we still should be pleased with what has been acheived.

hey, i complain too, but when we look at the big picture, we're doing alright for now!

hey im feelin good today, its sunny out which is nice for once (UK sucks) so im feelin good about giving props to our team.

Post #15 » by **Bensational** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 9:59 am

drsd wrote:The Magic are two obtainable pieces away from being the best team in the East. Trade Turkoglu for a PF, an sign a starting quality SG, and the Magic are as perfect a roster as Detroit, but with a bit more gas in their tank.

PG: Nelson/Dooling or Arroyo (one, not both)
SG: Player X/Evans or Redick (one, not both)
SF: Lewis/Bogans
PF: Player Y/Battie
C: Howard/Foyle

That 10 man rotation wins a lot of games.

But what if GM Smith changes gears and keeps Turkoglu? Then the entire off season will be about getting a SG to pair with Nelson/ Turkoglu/ Lewis/ Howard. Not a particularly elaborate off season for GM Smith. But it might be just enough.

you'd vote to move Hedo before Jameer? at what point in the past season and a half has Jameer shown you enough to give you the confidence that he could handle running the team again?

don't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting we trade Jameer, i just think that keeping Hedo is a lot more important than people think or credit him for.

i agree that if this team adds a few more of the right pieces then we'll be in much stronger position to compete night in and night out. right now we've got 3 guys who can give you 20 each night, and if we can get a couple more who can be threats to go off like that once in a while, as well as filling holes in defense and rebounding, then we'll be sweet.

personally i like the idea of keeping Hedo + Lewis and having the versatility to play small with them (plus a solid SG like Childress) and adding a decent PF to give us the option of matching size with size.

drsd · Post #16 » by **drsd** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 10:11 am

Bensational wrote:You'd vote to move Hedo before Jameer?

Yes. The Magic would not be able to trade Nelson for a starting quality PF. Only Turkolgu could be part of such a trade.

AND. Nelson is the Magic's best PG. If he was traded, the team would only trade one hole for another. Not a good idea at all.

At what point in the past season and a half has Jameer shown you enough to give you the confidence that he could handle running the team again?

Basically every game. Nelson is a very average starting PG in the NBA. That's great! Nelson is ranked by most Hollinger-type rankings as around 20. Twenty! Firstly, thats clearly starting quality. Secondly, this means that Nelson is one of the best 60 (or so) guards on this planet.

The Magic are not going to get Kidd or Nash. As such, Nelson is absolutely a guy the Magic can build a team around.

If the Magic had a true defensive SG, Nelson would look a lot better. My only real concern right now is if Nelson is already breaking down.

cappadoball · Post #17 » by **cappadoball** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 10:25 am

I think you have identity issues. Still proposing Hedo trades, are you for real?

thepantypeeler · Post #18 » by **thepantypeeler** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 8:13 pm

MagicMadness wrote:Some of you have to remember that as a former suck team, we'd often play hard against better opponents only to ultimately lose games in the end.

Well, now we're that better opponent. We play suck teams and coast until the 3rd or 4th quarter, where we then proceed to take control. Face it, most good teams do this. Yeah, yeah, we lack that killer instinct - well then, so do the majority of professional teams everywhere. We've obviously got holes to fill if we want to win a championship, but again, so does everyone else. As for our recent "bad wins" against inferior opponents, just remember, those inferior opponents used to be us. For the first time in ages, we can actually sit back and watch a Magic game knowing that the odds are in our favor that our team will turn it on and win the game in the end.

you are definitely right about this. this team has changed so much, even the fans have to get used to this new mentality haha.

and i am no longer for trading hedo, i have totally jumped the fence on that one. dwight has some sick weapons around him and in Rashard and Hedo and I love that core.

but like i said before, anyone who thinks this team is a serious contender in the league of the Pistons, Spurs, Suns etc, is seriously delusional. I am absolutely ecstatic about being 31-18 in the Least, don't get me wrong. but I am being absolutely realistic in saying that we could not hang with some of these teams in a 7-game series. Am i supposed to walk around just being grateful for our record? hell no , i wanna go to that parade going down Amelia st.