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SG options this offseason for MLE...

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Post#61 » by mhectorgato » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:15 pm

n0tforyou wrote:Foyled again?

Not sure, it doesn't seem to be 100% obvious that we do not have to use an exception to resign him.

I mean if we don't great.


Does anyone know for sure - or at least show why my conclusion is likely incorrect - if we do or don't have his rights?
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Post#62 » by MagicFan3 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:31 pm

n0tforyou wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



:naaa:


:cry:
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Post#63 » by lovehoops01 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:54 am

drsd wrote:Not sure why no one has mentioned Ricky Davis. He is buried in Miami, and would easily start in Orlando. It must be frustrating for him in South Florida, yet he has not been reported to be difficult.

The Magic could easily target Davis in the off-season, or even trade for him now with say Arroyo and Garrity as a package; thus allowing the Magic to sign Davis as a EB-free agent.


Any chance you caught the Heat-Magic game tonight somehow?

Davis was playing ZERO defense. They even focused on it and made fun of him on NBA TV.
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Post#64 » by lovehoops01 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 am

mhectorgato wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



This doesn't say anything about the length of tenure with the team that signed the contract.


I did a little more research instead of just spouting off the top of my head.

Hector appears to be correct. He signed with the Pistons as a free agent in 2005-06 and was traded to the Lakers. This is the final year of a three-year deal -- or at the very least he didn't leave either the Pistons or Lakers as a free agent. His Bird rights should transfer with the trade. So the Magic could keep Evans with his Bird rights, but his contract will count 200% the value of his contract against the cap until he is signed. He apparently is making $1.5 million this season so he counts $3 million against the cap in the offseason, until he is signed. Since the Magic don't have any cap space this summer, that won't really be a factor anyway.
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Post#65 » by sanddude909 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:45 am

Why do you think GS traded Richardson for a trade exception and a rookie?

It clears up our cap space and allows us to resign Andris and Monta.

Let's be rational about this: Ellis is our most unstoppable player due to his athleticism and quickness. He has become our most reliable half court option. He is hitting over 50% of his shots from the field. Against the Hornets, he had 9 boards. He's be averaging around 5 assists per game pretty consistently since December or so.

And Baron, even if he does not opt out of his contract, is only on the books for the 08-09 season, which means we have to have his replacement ready to go in 09-10. That replacement would be Ellis even if we got someone else to play the 1.

I guess the other question to ask is, other than hoping Orlando can sign him, why do you think GS would choose not to? Plus, the market for RFA's has changed dramatically in the last 2 years. (Just look at the Varajao situation from last year.) Teams just aren't offering RFA's contracts for fear that the team with the RFA's rights will match.

n0tforyou wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I for one do not believe Ellis is going to be brought back to GS, it's just a hunch, but I won't be the least bit surprised to see him traded or gone by some other means (whether he's traded, signed and traded, or just becomes unrestricted and walks). I don't think GS will pay for both Ellis and Biedrins and they need Biedrins more sorely than they need Ellis.
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Post#66 » by drsd » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:45 pm

lovehoops01 wrote:Any chance you caught the Heat-Magic game tonight somehow?

Davis was playing ZERO defense. They even focused on it and made fun of him on NBA TV.


Yes and no to Davis' defense. The problem is if you are an average player on a bad team, you will look bad.

Davis is the kind of SG who would sign for a MLE. And he has proven the ability to play at a starter's level. After all, do you not agree that Davis is an upgrade over Bogans?
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Post#67 » by lovehoops01 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:44 pm

I don't like Ricky Davis as a player at all, and I never would want him on my team.

He is a black hole with the ball. He often ignores what the coach wants him to do so he can do what he prefers to instead. He doesn't play any defense. And I don't think he's ever been on a winning team. Yes, he's always been able to score, but he always been able to score on bad teams. To me, he just eats away at the core of your team.
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Post#68 » by Optimus_Steel » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:48 pm

Davis is not a team player. Simple as that.
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Post#69 » by N4U|Redux » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:50 pm

prorl wrote:Davis is not a team player. Simple as that.


lovehoops01 wrote:I don't like Ricky Davis as a player at all, and I never would want him on my team.

He is a black hole with the ball. He often ignores what the coach wants him to do so he can do what he prefers to instead. He doesn't play any defense.


Agreed.

Keep Davis away.
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Post#70 » by N4U|Redux » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:59 pm

sanddude909 wrote:Why do you think GS traded Richardson for a trade exception and a rookie?

It clears up our cap space and allows us to resign Andris and Monta.


It cleared up some cap space.

Let's be rational about this: Ellis is our most unstoppable player due to his athleticism and quickness. He has become our most reliable half court option. He is hitting over 50% of his shots from the field. Against the Hornets, he had 9 boards. He's be averaging around 5 assists per game pretty consistently since December or so.


You're from GS, you're used to huge let downs, and you're trying to be rationale about having a good team? :rofl:

I guess the other question to ask is, other than hoping Orlando can sign him, why do you think GS would choose not to? Plus, the market for RFA's has changed dramatically in the last 2 years.


I never said Orlando has a shot at getting him. I think Ellis is a ~10mil/yr type guy, he's pretty damn good

Your entire argument seems to be based around your cap though, have you had a look?

Davis will make upwards of 15+ mil through 2010, Harrington makes 10+ through 2010, Jackson makes about 8 through 2010. Right there is about 35 million in salary. Know who else you have signed through next year? Basically Benelli and Wright (I haven't kept up on what Webber is making).

Ellis and Biedrins will both command around 8-10mil/year. Adding that to your salary of the 3 players above gets you to about 50 million /yr through 2010. So, having 50-million in salary for your starting 5 is good financially? I didn't realize that.

Take into account what happens with gys like Barnes, whatever Webber is making and for how long, that Wright is making a few million, and that you only have like 8 guys signed through next year (that's assuming you even resign Ellis/Biedrins). I guess you'll be signing the other half of your squad using the LLE.

Point? The salary situation in GS isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be, I'm not sure how much money your owners are willing to dole out (since I Don't follow GS that much) but to resign Ellis and Biedrins you're looking at 50+ million/yr in salary just for your starters effectively, the rest of your bench will probably be about 20 million more, for a grand total of somewhere around 70-million in salary. Pretty big payroll there -- not quite the Knicks or Mavs, but pretty steep especially with how much that bench would suck.
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Post#71 » by Bay_Areas_Finest » Fri Feb 1, 2008 1:14 am

mattyBoi wrote:Maggette, ellis


LOL

Ellis as in Monte Ellis? He's just about untouchable from the Warriors point of view, unless they are getting a star in return with a package deal. GS will resign him. The guy is averaging nearly 20 ppg and is still very young. He has a great stroke and can get to the hoop. Definitely see him as the Kevin Martin type player.

I'd like Maggette, and thats about it from that list.
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Post#72 » by sanddude909 » Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:46 pm

Well, a quick look at hoopshype dot com indicates that orlando has about $42 million allocated to Howard, Lewish, Turkolu, and Battie, so wondering about GS allocating $50 million to a starting 5 as bad cap management is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Most GS posters are resigned to Cohan allowing the trade exception expire instead of using it to facilitate someone else's trade because using it will mean that ellis or biedrins will surely be gone. Most are also resigned to Cohan paying luxury tax for 1 year (08-09) because once Baron's $17 million deal comes off the books, we will be back under the luxury tax.

Time will tell, but as far as GS posters are concerned, the future nucleus of this team is Brandon, Andris, and Monta. We'll need to pick up a point guard (if ellis stays at the 2) or a swingman - the easiest position to fill in the league - if Ellis successfully makes the transition to Tony Parker / Allen Iverson type point guard.



[quote="n0tforyou"][/quote]
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Post#73 » by N4U|Redux » Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:41 pm

sanddude909 wrote:Well, a quick look at hoopshype dot com indicates that orlando has about $42 million allocated to Howard, Lewish, Turkolu, and Battie, so wondering about GS allocating $50 million to a starting 5 as bad cap management is like the pot calling the kettle black.


1. You're apparently assuming I agree with our finances.

2. We have nobody left to sign to Ellis/Biedrins type money, much less two of them.

3. We also have more players under contract next year. Outside of your starters and a couple others, your entire team is free agents of some sort.

Time will tell, but as far as GS posters are concerned, the future nucleus of this team is Brandon, Andris, and Monta.


That's a sure fire way to win an argument, what people on the Internet think.

Orlando fans thought Ariza was part of our nucleus and look what happened.
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Post#74 » by x- » Sat Feb 2, 2008 5:07 pm

as cedric76 already said the roster rightnow is pretty good. there arent too much changes to be done. however getting azubuike or childress would be pretty nice, but i just don't see atl letting childress go (and i think childress wants to stay in atl) and to count on signing azubuike as the only option isnt great either.

so what i whould really try to do is trading for mike miller. he's the perfect fit, being able to play some minutes as pg, being a great shooter and even more important being a great teamplayer and locker room guy. battie turns 32 in a few days, evans is 29, rashard is 28, hedo is 28, bogans is 28, dooling is 28 and nelson turns 26 in a few days. so all of orlandos more important role players are in their prime the next 3-5 years. so is miller (turns 29 in 2 weeks), as he would be the magics' missing puzzle to being a serious championchip contender.

it won't be easy to get him, however it surely isnt impossible, as u look @ the grizzlies rebuilding rightnow:

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4461864
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4461849

add some first rounders or even the rights to fran if needed, orlandos roster is pretty much set anyway.

and yeah, i know memphis doenst need a point guard (arroyo), but they get an expiring contract with decent value (so they either let his contract just expire or trade him to a team thats lacking a pg [atl, charlotte etc..])
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Post#75 » by sanddude909 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:00 am

So, other than your "hunch" from a few posts back, the only reason you think Ellis is gone is...

Oh wait, your hunch IS the only reason you think Ellis is gone.

Ah well, I guess we will have to wait and see whether your hunch or the GS board's expectations will be met this offseason.

I am worried about this: If Memphis dumps more salary, they could in theory offer two $10 million deals to Ellis AND Biedrins in restricted free agency, in which case we might wind up paying more for them than most of us want to.

n0tforyou wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That's a sure fire way to win an argument, what people on the Internet think.

Orlando fans thought Ariza was part of our nucleus and look what happened.
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Post#76 » by N4U|Redux » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:04 am

sanddude909 wrote:So, other than your "hunch" from a few posts back, the only reason you think Ellis is gone is...

Oh wait, your hunch IS the only reason you think Ellis is gone.


Umm, yes? Did I not explain that clearly. You're the one that wanted to get into a debate with me so I explained my hunch more clearly -- mostly the fact that your salary is going to be huge and you still have a few player swho will be demanding dollars. You however made it look like you're barely over the cap as is, yet you'll be over the cap next year due to 5 players, good luck filling the rest of your team or having any financial room.

One of those situations WILL happen next year. Either you'll be in cap hell, or you'll have an extremely weak bench. I'm basing my 'hunch' on the fact that your owners probably won't want to be in cap hell for a team that has historically sucked balls.

Good explanation? If not, go away, if so...go away. This debate is senseless and your arguments are based off what you want because your team has been garbage for so long. It's fine to have those aspirations, but I'll be surprised is the reason I have my "hunch."
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Post#77 » by sanddude909 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:22 pm

Not that it's important to win an argument, but in re: Monta Ellis wearing anything other than a Warriors' uniform next year you might want to read the wiretap link from the SF Chronicle. Although obviously team executives do lie, that article states the following:

"And it will be as a Warrior. The third-year player is up for restricted free agency this summer, but team executives {i.e., not just a hunch} insist there is no way Ellis will wear another uniform next season. It is simply a matter how much he'll cost.

Ellis is making the league minimum of $771,000 this season and easily could be looking at a salary 10 times as much starting next season."

Short of actually signing him this off-season, does that tell you anything, besides the realization that your "go away" request was triggered more by your wishful thinking that Ellis might go away than any real or objective evidence?

Sincerely,

A Warriors' fan who is proud of the fact that his 32-20 team in the far tougher western conference would be percentage points ahead of your 33-21 team in the far crappier eastern conference if we played in the same conference

N4U|Redux wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Umm, yes? Did I not explain that clearly. You're the one that wanted to get into a debate with me so I explained my hunch more clearly -- mostly the fact that your salary is going to be huge and you still have a few player swho will be demanding dollars. You however made it look like you're barely over the cap as is, yet you'll be over the cap next year due to 5 players, good luck filling the rest of your team or having any financial room.

One of those situations WILL happen next year. Either you'll be in cap hell, or you'll have an extremely weak bench. I'm basing my 'hunch' on the fact that your owners probably won't want to be in cap hell for a team that has historically sucked balls.

Good explanation? If not, go away, if so...go away. This debate is senseless and your arguments are based off what you want because your team has been garbage for so long. It's fine to have those aspirations, but I'll be surprised is the reason I have my "hunch."
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Post#78 » by GswStorm3 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:05 pm

Buike could be available for you guys.
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Post#79 » by B-Diddy#1fan » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:02 pm

N4U|Redux, I don't think you understand the salary cap rules very well.

First of all, it is not uncommon for teams to go over the salary cap to resign their players. In fact most, all the elite teams in the league who are have a chance at the playoffs except for maybe Portland are over the salary cap. In order to have a competitive team, you have to spend money.

The thing that most Warriors fan are worried about is whether or not our owner is willing to pay the luxury tax. The luxury tax for the 2007-2008 is 67.9 Million according to http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71642

The Warriors are losing Pietrus contract which is about 3.5 million, Sarunas Jasikevicius which is 4 million, Patrick O'Bryant which is about 2.2 million, Barnes is about 3 million. Both Troy Hudson and Austin Croshere combine to make about 2.5 million. Webber is making the vet's min which is only about 500,000 so he doesn't really add much. Biedrins is making 2.6 million this year and should make anywhere from 7-10 million as should Ellis. But Biedrins contract should only be a 5-6 million increase for next year. That plus the fact that the salary cap and luxury tax should increase about 2-3 million as it always does means that the Warriors will be able to sign Ellis and Biedrins and if they go into the luxury tax, it will be only for a little bit.

Finally, the reason I feel strongly that both Biedrins and Ellis will stay a Warrior is because there is no market for them. The only teams with potentially enough cap space are Memphis and Philly according to this http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=745516
Even so, teams can only offer Ellis up to the MLE due to the Gilbert Arenas rule placed in the new CBA. There is a chance that the Warriors will low ball Ellis and that he will get upset and sign the qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent in 2010 but if that happens, Chris Cohan the warriors owner will be run out of town. As for Biedrins potentially going to another team, Philly already has Sam Dalembert so they don't need Biedrins and Memphis only has about 9-10 million dollars in cap room and I doubt they will try to use that on Biedrins due to the fact Gasol is better than Biedrins and they just gave him away.

Sorry to say that your hunch about Ellis leaving the Warriors is just plain wrong. Finally, at the end of 2008-2009, Foyle's ridiculous contract will finally come off the books so our cap situation is nowhere near as bad as Orlando's will be due to the stupid signing of Rashard Lewis. In 2011, the Magic have a total of 46 million dollars locked up to 3 guys. Have fun with that.
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Post#80 » by Dwightmare » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:23 pm

Ellis will absolutely be resigned, without question, and at worst "signed and traded". As will Biedrens. The question is will what will happen with Kelenna and Peitrus. They will have Baron, Ellis, Jackson and Belinelli which means that they might want to keep one more gaurd/SF around.

Kelenna is restricted where as MP is not meaning that they will probably just let MP walk. They will probably take a wait and see with Kelenna and reject any reasonable deal for him since they will be in Lux-tax territory. GS will be at 48M before resigning both Andris (around 10M) and Ellis (around 8Mto 10M).

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