Where would we be with Tony Battie?

Post #21 » by **LiteHedded** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:18 pm

orlandomike wrote:I guess the word to use is efficient. He is an efficient smart player, kind of like Horace Grant, not that good , not the banger but from the stand point of doing the dirty work, not screwing up and being very selective of his shots. He doesnt try to do circus crap like some of our guards to make something happen. He knows his skill level and plays within it. That doesnt show up on stat sheets but players dont always win games, many times they just lose them.

i'm a big tony battie fan and I think you're spot on here

Post #22 » by **ORL** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:19 pm

Yeah, I'd agree with that as well. He's a very decent, if not pretty good rebounder if you ask me, and you can be sure he's not going to miss any defensive rotations or assignments.

p0peye · Post #23 » by **p0peye** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:08 pm

Guys, are we talking about same Tony Battie here? With all respect, but never in his career (and we're talking about 10+ years of playing in NBA) did Tony average anything close to that.

Tony's basicly 7/5 guy at best.

magicmamma · Post #24 » by **magicmamma** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:43 pm

Tony Battie 06-07: 66 games 23.9 minutes 48.9% FG 67.5% FT 5.2 rebounds 0.5 assists 0.4 steals 0.4 blocks 0.92 TO 2.80 PF 6.1 points

I'm sure if Tony had been healthy this past season he would have been the starting pf, and our team would have had a somewhat different style. I don't think it would have been necessarily better. I don't know what Hedo would have been doing, but I don't think he would have been MIP. Rashard would probably have better stats. Dwight might not have developed so fast if he had Tony to help him out.

I doubt that Tony will be starting at pf next year. The Shard-Hedo forward combo has worked well for us, but we need alternative lineups to adjust to the competition. With Tony active we have him as a smart, steady, all-around big, Adonal as a defensive backup center, Cookie as a shooting pf, and Marcin as promising young backup big. SVG can put together almost any combination we need from that set.

I was listening to SVG on his radio show when a fan called in and said what many people here say -- that our most important need was a real pf, that our two sf lineup wouldn't work in the playoffs, and that we should trade Hedo for a starting pf. SVG listened, and then said cheerfully, "OK. Thank you." The host asked if he was going to answer the question and he said, "There was no question. He just wanted to express an opinion, and that's fine." He was polite, but didn't think the idea was worth discussing.

spinedoc · Post #25 » by **spinedoc** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:45 am

I agree with mamma that Battie was probably going to start this season, with Hedo experimenting at sg, but the injury changed our direction for the '08 season. Its kind of a blessing in disguise actually, because we don't get Evans and Cook without Battie going down, as thief already mentioned. I was a big Ariza fan, but he just didn't fit with Stan's system. He can't play sg and he can't hit the long ball.

Now next year with Battie coming back, we have that more physical option off the bench who can rebound, block shots, play decent defense, and can hit the mid-range jumper. With Cook as our three point option, it gives us a lot of flexibility. I can see him coming in at pf at first, while Shard and Hedo move down, and then move to center when Dwight needs a breather. Foyle will get phased out next year. It will really give our bench a big boost though, and he will give us plenty of production. Remember, it doesn't have to be all from points. Battie is a blue collar guy that definitely brings his lunch pail to work.

richboy · Post #26 » by **richboy** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:18 am

Battie is horrible. Your playing 4 on 5 on offense the second he comes into the game. I been saying for years that Battie been killing our offense. That stop playing him and wtach the offense go. Were going to bring him back. The only thing he should be doing is backup minutes for Dwight. You play him next to Dwight you just are letting teams drop that 4 to double team Dwight and leave Battie wide open for his mid-range jumper that he shoots at a 30% clip.

drsd · Post #27 » by **drsd** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:33 pm

richboy wrote:Battie is horrible. Your playing 4 on 5 on offense the second he comes into the game. I been saying for years that Battie been killing our offense. That stop playing him and wtach the offense go. Were going to bring him back. The only thing he should be doing is backup minutes for Dwight. You play him next to Dwight you just are letting teams drop that 4 to double team Dwight and leave Battie wide open for his mid-range jumper that he shoots at a 30% clip.

Tony is probably the best zone defender on the Magic roster. He's a great off-the ball defender as well. And he does the dirty work on offense setting screens and moving his defender off of the ball.

"Horrible" is not the word I would use.

When Battie comes back, he will be a great asset when Nelson and Lewis run Pick and rolls for each other. When Howard and Battie play together, Battie will be a road-block to let Howard get even more alley oops of of set plays that result in screens. Battie will also help box out so that Howard can get more of those clean-up offensive rebounds.

Battie's offense does not involve touching the ball. When that is accepted, one can realize that the guy is a very nice asset for the Magic. Battie's game does not show up in the stat line. But that does not mean he doesn't help the offense.

Post #28 » by **LiteHedded** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:44 pm

richboy wrote:Battie is horrible. Your playing 4 on 5 on offense the second he comes into the game. I been saying for years that Battie been killing our offense. That stop playing him and wtach the offense go. Were going to bring him back. The only thing he should be doing is backup minutes for Dwight. You play him next to Dwight you just are letting teams drop that 4 to double team Dwight and leave Battie wide open for his mid-range jumper that he shoots at a 30% clip.

he only shoots his jumper at a 30% clip? where are you getting that? it seems low for him

mhectorgato · Post #29 » by **mhectorgato** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:54 pm

drsd wrote:Tony is probably the best zone defender on the Magic roster. He's a great off-the ball defender as well. And he does the dirty work on offense setting screens and moving his defender off of the ball.

"Horrible" is not the word I would use.

When Battie comes back, he will be a great asset when Nelson and Lewis run Pick and rolls for each other. When Howard and Battie play together, Battie will be a road-block to let Howard get even more alley oops of of set plays that result in screens. Battie will also help box out so that Howard can get more of those clean-up offensive rebounds.

Battie's offense does not involve touching the ball. When that is accepted, one can realize that the guy is a very nice asset for the Magic. Battie's game does not show up in the stat line. But that does not mean he doesn't help the offense.

I agree and so does richboy:

richboy wrote:This isn't about stats but how he is playing

and

richboy wrote:That stats don't matter. His overall play matters

richboy · Post #30 » by **richboy** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:06 pm

LiteHedded wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

he only shoots his jumper at a 30% clip? where are you getting that? it seems low for him

We had this debate last year. NBA.com/hotzones had him shooting midrange jumpers at just over 30%.

Tony is probably the best zone defender on the Magic roster. He's a great off-the ball defender as well. And he does the dirty work on offense setting screens and moving his defender off of the ball.

"Horrible" is not the word I would use.

When Battie comes back, he will be a great asset when Nelson and Lewis run Pick and rolls for each other. When Howard and Battie play together, Battie will be a road-block to let Howard get even more alley oops of of set plays that result in screens. Battie will also help box out so that Howard can get more of those clean-up offensive rebounds.

Battie's offense does not involve touching the ball. When that is accepted, one can realize that the guy is a very nice asset for the Magic. Battie's game does not show up in the stat line. But that does not mean he doesn't help the offense.

The fact is when Tony Battie plays Dwight's level of play last year fell off drastically. He does not compliment our best player and thats why he should never be on the floor with Dwight. He gives teams an easy cheat. Defensively I don't mind Tony at all but its not like he is some great defensive player.

No it does mean he doesn't help the offense. Now if you want Battie back because of the defense I can agree. Thats why he could be an asset as Dwight Howard's backup. You start Battie there is no way this team would duplicate its 112 offensive rating this year. They would be better defensively but you would sacrifice offense in the process.

Post #31 » by **eyriq** » Thu May 1, 2008 12:00 am

Interesting debate on whether he should back up Dwight or Lewis. I agree with Spindoc and Magicmamma, he would give us a great look in different packages, though I prefer him coming in for Lewis and letting Gortat develop behind Dwight.

Post #32 » by **TheGlyde** » Thu May 1, 2008 12:04 am

It's one of those what ifs that we will never really know... It's possible we would have started Battie at PF and Shard at SF, Hedo off the bench and he doesn't have anywhere near the season he is having. Shard probably has a better one though, it would give the team a completely different look to what we have seen this season.

Until we see the lineup we currently have exploited to the point where we need to shuffle Hedo or Shard somewhere, I'm in favour of keeping them both in there and using Battie primarily to backup Dwight, with a few minutes alongside him.

theTHIEF · Post #33 » by **theTHIEF** » Thu May 1, 2008 12:09 am

man Tony would be so useful right now in the playoffs...

Dwight vs. Sheed/Mcdyess/Maxiell/Ratliff

Post #34 » by **ORL** » Thu May 1, 2008 1:16 am

Shard can check Dyess.

richboy · Post #35 » by **richboy** » Thu May 1, 2008 3:57 am

SVG has always said that his goal was to surround Howard with shooters. Even Otis said after loosing Darko that he like to see a front court of Lewis and Hedo. I don't know what the plan was or if there was any plan. Some of you had Ariza as the starting SG. The one thing I can say is I don't think you can run SVG offense without Hedo's ballhandling. If Battie started someone is going to have to run all these high screen-n-rolls and Rashard doesn't have the handle to do it.

Post #36 » by **ORL** » Thu May 1, 2008 6:59 am

There's no question that Battie (or any other enforcer at PF or whatever you want to call it) completely changes the complexion and the makeup of the team on the offensive end.

You gotta have 3pt shooting out of that spot because a) it takes away the double team and b) most pick-and-rolls Hedo runs with Dwight, Lewis is on the strong side waiting for the kickout.