Fact vs Opinion...Are the Magic full of "Chucking" PG's?

[craig01]

Nelson is mediocre. That's all I've seen proven here.

Agreed.

N4U, BTW- USF is really recruiting well for 2009. you guys must be excited.

[vagnermagic]

1. what about the number of turnovers before making an assist?

Thats pretty common knowledge and easily attainable, just look at a/to ratio on players stat cards on espn or nba.com. Arroyo is always very high up top that category most years also.

assist per turnover:
Johnson 3.11 #12
Arroyo 2.84 #22
Nelson 2.72 #25
Dooling 2.18 #58
Crittenton 0.91 #87

Top 10:
5.38 Calderon
4.62 Knight
4.60 Paul
4.56 Diener
3.74 Daniels
3.70 Duhon
3.65 Blake
3.37 Williams
3.31 Billups
3.20 Telfair

hahaha

Genious!

[Neon1]

The above stats doesn't provide any sort of insight as to whether 'Meer is a good PG though.

All this says is that Jameer apparently is mediocre at this comparison. And, while it proves he isn't necessarily a "chucker" it certainly does not indicate that he is a GOOD PASSER of any sort. All he'd have to do is shoot less while keeping the same assist total in order to go higher on this list (and that wouldn't make him a better passer); clearly that wouldn't make him a better PG as it is.

There are guys on that list that are both better passers and bigger chuckers; yet, at the same time much better passing PG's.

Nelson is mediocre. That's all I've seen proven here.

None of those stats were meant to prove anything as far as who is a good point guard. All that they are supposed to show is who looks for thier own shot and who doesnt.

Its only a stat to show who REALLY sets up themselves more than teamates and wh doesnt. You guys try to read to much into everything, this is just a "it is what it is" stat.

[spinedoc]

^ Good post Doc!
I also like that it is another friend/previous teamate that will ensure our superstars ameniable nature!

Plus like you said when if he can surpass Jameer it will probably be around the time that Meer's contract is up.

Thanks, and I think that is an underrated factor here. I wonder how much lobbying Dwight is doing. Hopefully not enough to make Otis overplay his hand, but I don't think there are a lot of other teams at the table here. If there are, we surely haven't heard about it. The Griz are probably worried that they are getting worked again after the Gasol fiasco though. Thats probably why this is getting so drawn out.

[N4U|Redux]

None of those stats were meant to prove anything as far as who is a good point guard. All that they are supposed to show is who looks for thier own shot and who doesnt.

Its only a stat to show who REALLY sets up themselves more than teamates and wh doesnt. You guys try to read to much into everything, this is just a "it is what it is" stat.

Isn't the insinuation though that Nelson is a "good" PG because he is not a chucker (i.e. one of his main criticisms). There is definitely an underlying "he's not a chucker, therefore he's a good passer" implication in your rationale.

However, I feel that while he's not necessarily a chucker, he clearly isn't a good passer either. So, it looks like he's not particularly suited for scoring or passing.

I like Nelson, I don't think he's a long term solution to PG, but I like him. I don't like to see Nelson dissed for no reason, but I don't like to see the opposite either. Nelson is what he is, an average PG in every sense of the word.

[Neon1]

Isn't the insinuation though that Nelson is a "good" PG because he is not a chucker (i.e. one of his main criticisms). There is definitely an underlying "he's not a chucker, therefore he's a good passer" implication in your rationale.

Maybe some people imply that im not one of them though. It only shows that hes a willing passer, doesnt mean hes a good one at all, the same goes for many players. For instance someone like Brevin Knight, he usually racks up plenty of assists, but if you watch him play he rarely actually creates or makes passes that others cant. He and many high assist guys get volume assists for the simple fact that they never shoot (because they cant). Tyronn Lue used to walk over half court basically hand the ball to TMac who would then jack up and bury a J. Lue by no means "created" that score, but he gets credit for one.

However, I feel that while he's not necessarily a chucker, he clearly isn't a good passer either. So, it looks like he's not particularly suited for scoring or passing.

I agree with the first sentence, but personally i think hes better suited to be a scorer. He can score and thats what he needs to do, IMO.

I don't like to see Nelson dissed for no reason, but I don't like to see the opposite either. Nelson is what he is, an average PG in every sense of the word.

Same here, except i dont like when any of the players are innacuarately or unfairly criticized. I have no issiues with people that know and understand what they dont like about someones game, like Devin, yourself and many others summed up your analysis perfectly in the other thread, but its the people that just bash with no understanding of what they are talking about the irritate the hell out of me.

[jonskilly]

Those stats don't take one major factor into consideration..

Critt played with the Grizzlies -- the worst team in the NBA. The stats make it sound like he never passes... but fact of the matter is that his teammates weren't making shots. When you take Jameer and Carlos into consideration, how many times have you seen them dump it down-low to D12 or throw him an alley-oop? Easy assists but still not a good passer.

[magicfanatic23]

I like Nelson, I don't think he's a long term solution to PG, but I like him. I don't like to see Nelson dissed for no reason, but I don't like to see the opposite either. Nelson is what he is, an average PG in every sense of the word.

+1
I totally agree with everything you wrote.