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idea with denver (bye hedo)

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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#21 » by Optimus_Steel » Sun Sep 7, 2008 4:35 pm

spinedoc wrote:I don't like the trade for Nene and Chucky. Nene is more of a center and hasn't lived up to expectations, and getting Atkins isn't strong enough to make this a decent trade for us. I'd rather trade Hedo and Battie for K-Mart. He's not the player he used to be since his injury, but he's still a very athletic four that would bring us better balance. I don't see that happening though, but I'd consider it. I think we could do better elsewhere anyway if we were shopping Hedo.


Nope i dont like that either. Hedo's playmaking and scoring is more important to this team than what Kmart brings to the table. I rather keep Hedo + Battie.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#22 » by JOHNNYN » Mon Sep 8, 2008 1:04 am

prorl wrote:I still would rather have Hedo.


how about lewis for lamar odom+filler?
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#23 » by drsd » Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:55 am

JOHNNYN wrote:how about lewis for lamar odom+filler?


There is no gosh darn way in heck that Rashard Lewis gets traded this year.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#24 » by trebone » Mon Sep 8, 2008 1:50 pm

i like portland as a trade partner and philly will not give up speights for our tpe no way no how
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#25 » by lovehoops01 » Tue Sep 9, 2008 11:37 pm

I don't see any of those trades happening.

Speights isn't going to solve the Magic's lack of depth at the 4, even if the Sixers would make that deal. He is a rookie so you're going to put him out there as the starter? And who is going to make up for Hedo's 20 points per game? Miller? I thought you wanted a point guard who will distribute the ball to everyone else. (And Miller isn't known for playing any defense either so that's not a plus on his side.)

Nene....Has he played even close to a full season more than once? And if the Nuggets make that deal, are they going to start Steven Hunter at center? How does that help them? They don't have Camby anymore.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#26 » by Bskey » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:56 am

Force9024 wrote:I'd consider the trade with Denver if Nene was 100% healthy. However this is somewhat of what I'd like to see if the Magic were to decide to trade Hedo. Maybe it's too much on our end.

ORLANDO RECEIVES:
LaMarcus Aldridge(17.8ppg,7.6rpg)
Travis Outlaw(13.3ppg,4.6rpg)

PORTLAND RECEIVES:
Chris Wilcox(13.1ppg,7rpg)
Hedo Turkoglu(19.5ppg,5.7rpg,5apg)
Mouhamed Sene(2.3ppg,1.2rpg)
Future 1st(ORL)

OKLAHOMA CITY RECEIVES:
Joel Pryzbillia(4.8ppg,8.4rpg,1.2bpg)
JJ Redick(4.1ppg)
Rights to Fran Vasquez

PG - Nelson/Johnson
SG - Pietrus/Lee
SF - Lewis/Outlaw/Bogans
PF - Aldridge/Cook/Gortat
C - Howard/Battie/Foyle


There is zero chance Portland does this.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#27 » by TheRevTy » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:28 pm

lovehoops01 wrote:I don't see any of those trades happening.

Speights isn't going to solve the Magic's lack of depth at the 4, even if the Sixers would make that deal. He is a rookie so you're going to put him out there as the starter? And who is going to make up for Hedo's 20 points per game? Miller? I thought you wanted a point guard who will distribute the ball to everyone else. (And Miller isn't known for playing any defense either so that's not a plus on his side.)

Nene....Has he played even close to a full season more than once? And if the Nuggets make that deal, are they going to start Steven Hunter at center? How does that help them? They don't have Camby anymore.


While I was just spitballing and have no real loyalty to any of the deals I stated, I would like to refute a couple of things here:

First of all, Battie would start at the 4 in the Philly deal, at least until Speights figures out the NBA.

But here's the biggest thing and I've heard it over and over: "Who's going to replace Hedo's 20 PPG?"

This seems to be one of the biggest arguments against dealing Hedo. A couple of things on this: 1. We have a crap load of offensive talent between Meer, Shard, and Dwight, not to mention Lee, Cook, and the never-played-always-potential JJ. I think together they could scrounge up 20 more points. But more importantly, I don't think Hedo will score 20 PPG if he stays with us. Why? Shard has a whole season in Stan's system as the 4 under his belt, so you expect more production out of him (plus more of the offense run through him). Jameer showed his talent consistently during the playoffs. Because of this, I think Stan won't try and "square peg - round hole" him by telling him to pass first. When Hedo struggled in the postseason, you saw Meer's game, which is using his above average scoring talent to set up his passing game. He isn't Jason Kidd, he can't affect a game without scoring a point. But the biggest reason Hedo may struggle to reproduce his output is Dwight. He has another year of development, added maturity from the Olympics, and it is time to make him the focal point of the team. As such, Hedo's touches will be reduced. Hedo needs the ball to be truly effective. Sure, he can be like Shard last year and hit open shots off of kick-outs, but that would account for 15 PPG tops.

For all of you who don't feel like reading the above paragraph, here is basically what it says: Last season, Hedo was the focus of the offense. As such, he had the green light, especially in the 4th quarter, and had very solid numbers. This year, we will see a more utilized Rashard, a Nelson who finally has a coach who will let him play his game, and Dwight progressing to become the Magic's main guy on offense. So don't expect to see the same Hedo this year.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#28 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:54 pm

TheRevTy wrote:
lovehoops01 wrote:I don't see any of those trades happening.

Speights isn't going to solve the Magic's lack of depth at the 4, even if the Sixers would make that deal. He is a rookie so you're going to put him out there as the starter? And who is going to make up for Hedo's 20 points per game? Miller? I thought you wanted a point guard who will distribute the ball to everyone else. (And Miller isn't known for playing any defense either so that's not a plus on his side.)

Nene....Has he played even close to a full season more than once? And if the Nuggets make that deal, are they going to start Steven Hunter at center? How does that help them? They don't have Camby anymore.


While I was just spitballing and have no real loyalty to any of the deals I stated, I would like to refute a couple of things here:

First of all, Battie would start at the 4 in the Philly deal, at least until Speights figures out the NBA.

But here's the biggest thing and I've heard it over and over: "Who's going to replace Hedo's 20 PPG?"

This seems to be one of the biggest arguments against dealing Hedo. A couple of things on this: 1. We have a crap load of offensive talent between Meer, Shard, and Dwight, not to mention Lee, Cook, and the never-played-always-potential JJ. I think together they could scrounge up 20 more points. But more importantly, I don't think Hedo will score 20 PPG if he stays with us. Why? Shard has a whole season in Stan's system as the 4 under his belt, so you expect more production out of him (plus more of the offense run through him). Jameer showed his talent consistently during the playoffs. Because of this, I think Stan won't try and "square peg - round hole" him by telling him to pass first. When Hedo struggled in the postseason, you saw Meer's game, which is using his above average scoring talent to set up his passing game. He isn't Jason Kidd, he can't affect a game without scoring a point. But the biggest reason Hedo may struggle to reproduce his output is Dwight. He has another year of development, added maturity from the Olympics, and it is time to make him the focal point of the team. As such, Hedo's touches will be reduced. Hedo needs the ball to be truly effective. Sure, he can be like Shard last year and hit open shots off of kick-outs, but that would account for 15 PPG tops.

For all of you who don't feel like reading the above paragraph, here is basically what it says: Last season, Hedo was the focus of the offense. As such, he had the green light, especially in the 4th quarter, and had very solid numbers. This year, we will see a more utilized Rashard, a Nelson who finally has a coach who will let him play his game, and Dwight progressing to become the Magic's main guy on offense. So don't expect to see the same Hedo this year.


Although Hedo is one tremendous versatile scorer, he can score from anywhere, its not so much about scoring. To me its about Hedo's playmaking ability. Hedo is the team's best passer and playmaker. He is probably the only guy that can consistantly create for others or himself. You trade away Hedo for a PF, lets bring in Keyon Martin for example who was mentioned earlier in the thread, you are gonna bring in more rebounding and some defense but in my opinion it does not offset the loss of Hedo's playmaking abilities. The majority of the proposed Hedo trades have this shortcoming. Most trades have the Magic overwhelmingly losing out on talent because of the obssesion of getting that PF that allows Lewis to play SF, and I am not in favor of that. I am of the belief that we can keep Hedo and his many talents and bring in some short term cheap PF's that rebound and play defense to help shore up that area. To me thats a better option than the alternate. Now if someones comes up with a Hedo trade where we are getting comparable talent in return I am more than happy to consider it, but that has not been the case with most trades proposed.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#29 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:00 pm

JOHNNYN wrote:
prorl wrote:I still would rather have Hedo.


how about lewis for lamar odom+filler?


Who is the filler? And if I am correct, Odom at the moment is making alot more than Hedo, i think about twice as much, if so they Magic would have to send another player, probably Battie. In that case it might be in the Magic best interest to keep both Hedo and Battie instead because you are creating more holes in other places.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#30 » by prekazi » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:57 pm

wow a team with zero passers. I'm sure Dwight will love this.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#31 » by Last Guardian » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:35 pm

Without Hedo, we'd be lost offensively. He made everything work with his offensive talent and ability to pass and get others involved. We'd be relying on Dwight to create offense for himself and others all game, and from what I've seen he can't do that yet. Rashard Lewis has the offensive talent but not the playmaking ability. We need Hedo.
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Re: idea with denver (bye hedo) 

Post#32 » by Optimus_Steel » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:32 pm

Solid Snake wrote:Without Hedo, we'd be lost offensively. He made everything work with his offensive talent and ability to pass and get others involved. We'd be relying on Dwight to create offense for himself and others all game, and from what I've seen he can't do that yet. Rashard Lewis has the offensive talent but not the playmaking ability. We need Hedo.


Exactly, yet some here are willing to instantly trade him for the first so-so PF that comes along so that Lewis can move to SF. I think the wise thing for the Magic to do is keep adding to the talent already in the team, not subtracting from it.
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