Is Henny's Seat Getting Warm?

[Magic_Kingdom]

For the most part, posters on this forum continue to judge Hennigan solely by his draft picks, as if that is the only job duty of a GM. He has drafted pretty well for where the Magic picked, but has he done anything else? If the right pieces aren't there when you pick, do you pick them anyway, and then wait forever for them to hopefully become something they might never be? If the pieces don't fit together, do you just keep saying they will grow organically while forcing a round peg into a square hole? I don't think Hennigan has done a bad job, but I'm surprised so many on this board continue to ignore the most important factor in evaluating his performance -- the product on the floor. It's like his work day ends as soon as the draft is over.

At this point it looks highly unlikely that they finish the season near .500. They've had one of of the easiest schedules in the league so far, and it's about to get nasty right as they're free-falling. They've lost 7 of their last 8 and they're not at the tough part yet. So final judgment for this season will come when it's over, and at that point I don't think part of the argument will be that the team is contending or playing .500 ball. So if the Magic finish bottom-5 again this season, does everyone's opinion remain the same?

Bottom 5? Right now the 5th worst team in the league overall has 7 less wins than we do. The 6th worse team has 6 less wins than us. So, assuming those teams continue at the same pace that would basically mean that we would have to go about 6-42 over the second half of the season.

So, I guess the answer to your question is that if we finish bottom 5 there will be significant issues throughout the organization. But that is an absurd hypothetical. We are not going 6-42. We are not finishing bottom 5. Your arguments are completely strawmen.

Amin Elhassan, amongst others, holds Henny up as a prime example of exactly how a rebuild project should be done and lauds him for building the foundation for a winning franchise for many years. I agree fully.

If you disagree please explain why. Certainly, I would love the magic to make the playoffs this year but if they don't and come close I don't think it matters all that much. All of our key pieces save vooch are 23 or younger. Anyone with a brain understands that and that you don't become a top 4 team overnight.

Last year the Magic won 25 games. We have a shot at getting to that mark before the end of January. It seem unlikely that the Magic will do any less than a 10 game improvement over last year (and may well do even more). Clear progress. For you to fail to see this is either myopathy or intentional obfuscation.

You think bottom-5 in the league is an absurd hypothetical? All I can say is that we'll have to see where it stands at the end of the season. I hope they don't fall that far, but if you think this team is finishing near .500 then your projection is as absurd as mine. I'd be willing to bet the Magic finish closer to bottom-5 than they do to .500. I'd put the over/under at 30 wins, which would be 30-52. I just don't see the second half of the season going as well as the first. Most people don't, except for you, apparently.

If anyone is dealing in hypotheticals, it's people like you who give Hennigan an A++ based solely upon what might be...hopefully...one day. If you read my post, I'm not saying he's terrible. But I am questioning those of you who are at the other extreme -- to say he's a "prime example of how to rebuild a team" that has yet to finish out of the bottom-5 is laughable. All he has done is tank. Do you think that's rocket science? Lose on purpose and stockpile high draft picks? Should we go ahead and make him executive of the year for the adroit manner in which he constructed his purposely bad teams?

All I'm saying is that the blind Hennigan-love focuses on one thing only -- he tanked to get top-10 picks. What else has he done -- He traded J.J. Redick for Tobias Harris. Tobias is younger, but you could argue that if we had Redick on this team now instead of Tobias, we'd be much better. And that's before taking Tobias's mammoth salary into account. He also let Ryan Anderson go in free agency, and signed Channing Frye in free agency. Who would you rather have? We'd be better with Anderson, obviously.

Hennigan has done some things well, but we can't say he's a success -- yet. I'm pretty sure you hire a GM to build a winning team. Projecting his Magic roster as a winning team is a serious leap of faith at this point. And I'm not saying he's a failure yet. It's too early for that as well. However, if the plan was to go the OKC route, then it's time to change the plan -- because Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook aren't walking through that door. We've had 4 top-10 picks in the last 3 years, and none of them is a sure-fire star. Maybe one of them becomes great. But if they were going to be great on the level of KD or RW, we'd probably be able to see that potential by now. So here's where we see if Hennigan is a good GM, or just a good tanker. It's Hennigan-Year 4, still no stars, and a lineup that doesn't fit well together -- what do you do? Continue to sit and wait? Cross your fingers for the 2016 Draft Lottery? At some point the clock starts ticking.

[tiderulz]

we have those wins over the bad teams though. Teams behind us will play bad teams and grab some wins themselves. And we are dealing with injuries again, we have seen how bad we look with Elf out of the line up. We are also due for a stretch without Fournier if history follows. One thing not mentioned, yes, Hennigan seems to take the perceived best player at the time, but i havent really seen the move up or move back. In the middle of a long rebuild, if the thought anywhere was, for example, that Giannis or Gobert would have higher potential, why not move back and take them? If Gordon wasnt what you wanted, why not move back, get a pick for next year, something. You dont have to take a player just to take them and hope they turn out good.

I just dont like how this team is compromised. We have guards that defend but are bad shooters, a center that isnt a rim protector and while shoots a high %, those shots a 2 pt shots and rarely gets to the line. A SF that while he has improved his defense and effort, seems to have lost the scoring instinct he showed the past 2.5 years. A team that needs shooting and defense, with a coach that keeps them on the bench. We just have a lot of problems.

Did you miss the 2014 draft? Henny moved up to get EP and made the trade with Philly. Are you critical of that pick or what. And then there is AG who, to me, looks like a great pick. I don't see any player picked below him that has the potential that he does. And, rather obviously, moving up above the 4 spot that year was not possible. Additionally, would you trade Gordon for Parker or Embiid right now? I wouldn't. Please explain how you would have handled 2014 draft differently?

And you are really going to Monday morning quarterback Henny for the 15th and 27th picks in the 2013 draft -- really? Would love to have Gobert BUT 26 teams missed on him. I'm not sure whether Greek Freak or Dipo will be better long term but I think its really hard to second guess him on Victor. Really damn hard.

The issue is NOT that the team is compromised -- its that we are YOUNG.

Henny didnt move to get EP. Philly took EP from us by surprised and we had to pay to get him.

AG, to me isnt this slam dunk pick that some people believe. Maybe he becomes it, but im not seeing it right now.

You are criticizing me for those ideas, which is fair, but left out the way the team is compromised. So you are happy with the team as it is? players in roles that magnify their weaknesses? How would we look with CJ McCollum and another asset instead of Dipo? yes, it is monday morning QB'ing, but fans are allowed some of that with a GM. Arent they supposed to be looking and evaluating all players?

[NBlue]

we have those wins over the bad teams though. Teams behind us will play bad teams and grab some wins themselves. And we are dealing with injuries again, we have seen how bad we look with Elf out of the line up. We are also due for a stretch without Fournier if history follows. One thing not mentioned, yes, Hennigan seems to take the perceived best player at the time, but i havent really seen the move up or move back. In the middle of a long rebuild, if the thought anywhere was, for example, that Giannis or Gobert would have higher potential, why not move back and take them? If Gordon wasnt what you wanted, why not move back, get a pick for next year, something. You dont have to take a player just to take them and hope they turn out good.

I just dont like how this team is compromised. We have guards that defend but are bad shooters, a center that isnt a rim protector and while shoots a high %, those shots a 2 pt shots and rarely gets to the line. A SF that while he has improved his defense and effort, seems to have lost the scoring instinct he showed the past 2.5 years. A team that needs shooting and defense, with a coach that keeps them on the bench. We just have a lot of problems.

Did you miss the 2014 draft? Henny moved up to get EP and made the trade with Philly. Are you critical of that pick or what. And then there is AG who, to me, looks like a great pick. I don't see any player picked below him that has the potential that he does. And, rather obviously, moving up above the 4 spot that year was not possible. Additionally, would you trade Gordon for Parker or Embiid right now? I wouldn't. Please explain how you would have handled 2014 draft differently?

And you are really going to Monday morning quarterback Henny for the 15th and 27th picks in the 2013 draft -- really? Would love to have Gobert BUT 26 teams missed on him. I'm not sure whether Greek Freak or Dipo will be better long term but I think its really hard to second guess him on Victor. Really damn hard.

The issue is NOT that the team is compromised -- its that we are YOUNG.

Henny didnt move to get EP. Philly took EP from us by surprised and we had to pay to get him.

AG, to me isnt this slam dunk pick that some people believe. Maybe he becomes it, but im not seeing it right now.

You are criticizing me for those ideas, which is fair, but left out the way the team is compromised. So you are happy with the team as it is? players in roles that magnify their weaknesses? How would we look with CJ McCollum and another asset instead of Dipo? yes, it is monday morning QB'ing, but fans are allowed some of that with a GM. Arent they supposed to be looking and evaluating all players?

Come on now. We traded with Philly which resulted in us getting the 10th pick (EP) for the 12 pick (Saric) and giving up the rights to a Philly pick we owned. It happened on draft night -- if you are saying that is not a draft move that is really disingenuous. You may not like the move (I do) but is clearly a draft move. You were critical of him for not making any and that is simply not accurate.

As to AG, please tell me who, right now, you would prefer over him after pick 4 in that draft. Tell me who the better prospect is that we should have traded down for? I'll wait.

Am I happy with the team how it currently comprised -- who is ever fully happy with that? Generally I am because I am cognizant of the fact that you don't win an NBA title when your best players all are under 23. We don't (and shouldn't) have the goal of winning the NBA title this year as otherwise we would immediately trade away our current youth for a veteran core. But that would mortgage our future. Will moves have to be made in the future? No doubt about it. But Henny has established a number of players of value from the shambles of the team Otis left him. Our team is far from perfect, and if our goal was to maximize our win total for THIS YEAR then, certainly, we would need to make a number of moves asap. But its quite clear the Magic are building a team here and they have some nice pieces to do that.

[NBlue]

For the most part, posters on this forum continue to judge Hennigan solely by his draft picks, as if that is the only job duty of a GM. He has drafted pretty well for where the Magic picked, but has he done anything else? If the right pieces aren't there when you pick, do you pick them anyway, and then wait forever for them to hopefully become something they might never be? If the pieces don't fit together, do you just keep saying they will grow organically while forcing a round peg into a square hole? I don't think Hennigan has done a bad job, but I'm surprised so many on this board continue to ignore the most important factor in evaluating his performance -- the product on the floor. It's like his work day ends as soon as the draft is over.

At this point it looks highly unlikely that they finish the season near .500. They've had one of of the easiest schedules in the league so far, and it's about to get nasty right as they're free-falling. They've lost 7 of their last 8 and they're not at the tough part yet. So final judgment for this season will come when it's over, and at that point I don't think part of the argument will be that the team is contending or playing .500 ball. So if the Magic finish bottom-5 again this season, does everyone's opinion remain the same?

Bottom 5? Right now the 5th worst team in the league overall has 7 less wins than we do. The 6th worse team has 6 less wins than us. So, assuming those teams continue at the same pace that would basically mean that we would have to go about 6-42 over the second half of the season.

So, I guess the answer to your question is that if we finish bottom 5 there will be significant issues throughout the organization. But that is an absurd hypothetical. We are not going 6-42. We are not finishing bottom 5. Your arguments are completely strawmen.

Amin Elhassan, amongst others, holds Henny up as a prime example of exactly how a rebuild project should be done and lauds him for building the foundation for a winning franchise for many years. I agree fully.

If you disagree please explain why. Certainly, I would love the magic to make the playoffs this year but if they don't and come close I don't think it matters all that much. All of our key pieces save vooch are 23 or younger. Anyone with a brain understands that and that you don't become a top 4 team overnight.

Last year the Magic won 25 games. We have a shot at getting to that mark before the end of January. It seem unlikely that the Magic will do any less than a 10 game improvement over last year (and may well do even more). Clear progress. For you to fail to see this is either myopathy or intentional obfuscation.

You think bottom-5 in the league is an absurd hypothetical? All I can say is that we'll have to see where it stands at the end of the season. I hope they don't fall that far, but if you think this team is finishing near .500 then your projection is as absurd as mine. I'd be willing to bet the Magic finish closer to bottom-5 than they do to .500. I'd put the over/under at 30 wins, which would be 30-52. I just don't see the second half of the season going as well as the first. Most people don't, except for you, apparently.

If anyone is dealing in hypotheticals, it's people like you who give Hennigan an A++ based solely upon what might be...hopefully...one day. If you read my post, I'm not saying he's terrible. But I am questioning those of you who are at the other extreme -- to say he's a "prime example of how to rebuild a team" that has yet to finish out of the bottom-5 is laughable. All he has done is tank. Do you think that's rocket science? Lose on purpose and stockpile high draft picks? Should we go ahead and make him executive of the year for the adroit manner in which he constructed his purposely bad teams?

All I'm saying is that the blind Hennigan-love focuses on one thing only -- he tanked to get top-10 picks. What else has he done -- He traded J.J. Redick for Tobias Harris. Tobias is younger, but you could argue that if we had Redick on this team now instead of Tobias, we'd be much better. And that's before taking Tobias's mammoth salary into account. He also let Ryan Anderson go in free agency, and signed Channing Frye in free agency. Who would you rather have? We'd be better with Anderson, obviously.

Hennigan has done some things well, but we can't say he's a success -- yet. I'm pretty sure you hire a GM to build a winning team. Projecting his Magic roster as a winning team is a serious leap of faith at this point. And I'm not saying he's a failure yet. It's too early for that as well. However, if the plan was to go the OKC route, then it's time to change the plan -- because Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook aren't walking through that door. We've had 4 top-10 picks in the last 3 years, and none of them is a sure-fire star. Maybe one of them becomes great. But if they were going to be great on the level of KD or RW, we'd probably be able to see that potential by now. So here's where we see if Hennigan is a good GM, or just a good tanker. It's Hennigan-Year 4, still no stars, and a lineup that doesn't fit well together -- what do you do? Continue to sit and wait? Cross your fingers for the 2016 Draft Lottery? At some point the clock starts ticking.

Its trollish to suggest that Henny's supporters feel that way because he has been able to tank. Clearly, the credit to him goes for the following:

1) Vooch and a pick (which later became EP) out of the D12 trade.
2) Tobias for JJ. Remember, JJ was a free agent. Why do you think he would have resigned with a rebuilding Orlando?
3) Solid Drafting.
4) Signing Vooch to a team friendly deal

There are plenty of other things but those are pretty damn nice.

As to free agents, obviously Henny did everything he could to bring in Millsap who elected to stay in Atlanta. You fault Henny for failing to get him in, okay -- who would have successfully made it happen? You might as well fault Henny for failing to lure Lebron James and KD.

Finally, your arguments are all strawmen -- you want to criticize Henny you need to say what he did wrong and what he should have done instead. At this point your sole argument is that he should have kept Ryno and not signed Frye. I'm not sure exactly what that would have accomplished. I mean -- Ryan would not have put us in the playoffs the last few years through our rebuild. He is an UFA next year and if we want him we can certainly sign him. Likewise, though Frye is certainly not a success here he has a contract that can be traded.

My belief is that Hennigan is trying to build a team to compete for a title. I'm not sure how the last 3 years of Anderson (though I do like him) would have accomplished anything but give us slightly lower draft picks. If you think he is failing in that regard -- please identify his missteps and how he should have acted. Of course, he cannot be deemed a success yet as its too early to tell BUT I like the pieces he has and feel like he has positioned our team quite well for the future though, certainly, only time will tell.

[tiderulz]

Did you miss the 2014 draft? Henny moved up to get EP and made the trade with Philly. Are you critical of that pick or what. And then there is AG who, to me, looks like a great pick. I don't see any player picked below him that has the potential that he does. And, rather obviously, moving up above the 4 spot that year was not possible. Additionally, would you trade Gordon for Parker or Embiid right now? I wouldn't. Please explain how you would have handled 2014 draft differently?

And you are really going to Monday morning quarterback Henny for the 15th and 27th picks in the 2013 draft -- really? Would love to have Gobert BUT 26 teams missed on him. I'm not sure whether Greek Freak or Dipo will be better long term but I think its really hard to second guess him on Victor. Really damn hard.

The issue is NOT that the team is compromised -- its that we are YOUNG.

Henny didnt move to get EP. Philly took EP from us by surprised and we had to pay to get him.

AG, to me isnt this slam dunk pick that some people believe. Maybe he becomes it, but im not seeing it right now.

You are criticizing me for those ideas, which is fair, but left out the way the team is compromised. So you are happy with the team as it is? players in roles that magnify their weaknesses? How would we look with CJ McCollum and another asset instead of Dipo? yes, it is monday morning QB'ing, but fans are allowed some of that with a GM. Arent they supposed to be looking and evaluating all players?

Come on now. We traded with Philly which resulted in us getting the 10th pick (EP) for the 12 pick (Saric) and giving up the rights to a Philly pick we owned. It happened on draft night -- if you are saying that is not a draft move that is really disingenuous. You may not like the move (I do) but is clearly a draft move. You were critical of him for not making any and that is simply not accurate.

As to AG, please tell me who, right now, you would prefer over him after pick 4 in that draft. Tell me who the better prospect is that we should have traded down for? I'll wait.

Am I happy with the team how it currently comprised -- who is ever fully happy with that? Generally I am because I am cognizant of the fact that you don't win an NBA title when your best players all are under 23. We don't (and shouldn't) have the goal of winning the NBA title this year as otherwise we would immediately trade away our current youth for a veteran core. But that would mortgage our future. Will moves have to be made in the future? No doubt about it. But Henny has established a number of players of value from the shambles of the team Otis left him. Our team is far from perfect, and if our goal was to maximize our win total for THIS YEAR then, certainly, we would need to make a number of moves asap. But its quite clear the Magic are building a team here and they have some nice pieces to do that.

we did not move up to get Elf. Philly took a chance on Elf and made us pay for it. you could say that "technically" we moved up. But we did it after he was taken, that wasnt a planned move.

Who would i prefer over AG? hard to say, we have no idea what player and pick we might have been able to get for that pick from another team. I dont see superstar in Gordon. We have 3 top-10 picks and i dont see superstar in any of them.

[MagicMadness]

The team is likely to end up with at least 10 more wins than last season, with no real upgrades other than at head coach.

So if Hennigan's job was safe last offseason, I don't know why it wouldn't be even more safe right now.

[TreasureCoast]

I would assume he drives a car that has heated seats so yes.