Emergency GT: Magic @ Celtics

[thelead]

So, how many times did we have a stretch THIS bad with JV? I'm going to guess no more than once. Don't care to look it up but we're worse than Philly right now. That's saying something.

[OrlandO]

So, how many times did we have a stretch THIS bad with JV? I'm going to guess no more than once. Don't care to look it up but we're worse than Philly right now. That's saying something.

We played poorly overall and had a horrible losing stretch in the month leading up to vaughn's firing, but at least we had a couple guys averaging 20 ppg on solid percentage and elfrid was on his passing game. What we're seeing now is the worst we've played during this rebuild. Skiles is getting nothing out of these guys... they're not buying into his crappy system and it's only a few months into his contract.

[BadWolf]

to put in in other words in terms of efficiency

frye is solid at 60%
gordon, harris, fournier are ok, a bit above average 54-56
vucevic is bad 52 (46th among centers - the guy some/most think is the best scorer)
dipo is terrible (54th among sg)
and then there's peyton (64th among pg)

You can't build a solid attack when three of your starters are bottom of the league in scoring efficiency. And those three are supposed to be the cornerstones, while the other three are the so called problem.

[j-ragg]

Vic has been bad but so far this month his shooting has been really good. Hopefully he's turned a corner.

Agreed about Elf we all know that's his huge weakness.

But then there's Vuc. Our top 3 center. Best offensive big man in the NBA. According to many of our posters. Not even efficient at the one thing he does well, this team really is put together terribly.

[rcklsscognition]

Celtics commentators mentioned last night we were 1-?? in Jan 16', 2-?? in Jan 15', and 3-?? in 14'. Great month for us...

[Def Swami]

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/1/30/10876658/it-sounds-like-someone-in-the-magic-locker-room-is-watching-porn/

Welp.

[JF5]

A skilled big man doesn't mean much unless you've got the defense to match. Kanter was shipped out of Utah and then sent to the bench in OKC, both times in favour of a defensive big.

Our progression going forwards hinges on finding an elite playmaker from the wing spot, so we should invest our time in developing that. Elf, Dipo, Hezonja and Gordon are all our best shots for that. Let's get one of them firing at star level before we worry about getting a skilled big man.

I'm not saying we necessarily need to trade Vuc (I really don't care if we do though), but we should at least explore what OKC have already done and try him off the bench whilst other guys take their shot at stepping up as go to scorers.

1. Utah has Derek Favours playing right next to Gobert... Just like Blake Griffin playing along side Deandre Jordan which coincides with my point of obtaining another offensive big man to go along with a Rim Protector who is not a two way player. That idea/process itself is a tough when you see that 2-way, let alone Offensive big men don't grow on trees.

2. OKC, again has 2 Superstar players on the Perimeter (Durant, Westbrook) therefore they don't need a post presence and can get away with getting defensive with their bigs.

The team is already struggling to score, and you want to put your best offensive player on the bench. I don't get that logic here...

[Blue_and_Whte]

But his percentages are actually VERY respectable (43 and 36). If that's the case (packing the paint), we should be getting Elf more shots.

.474 ts%
.447 efg%

Well, he can't shoot free throws, so yeah... Also he doesn't take a lot of 3's. But that's why I'm saying, let him shoot more 3's if they're giving him the shot. It's not like we're blazing the world with our offense anyway. It's time to really get some good data out of these guys.

He can't shoot three's either. If we ran plays to get Payton open 3's we'd lose by 50 everynight and he'd have a 23% fg you people are in Crack rock if you think Payton can shoot 3's.

[thelead]

.474 ts%
.447 efg%

Well, he can't shoot free throws, so yeah... Also he doesn't take a lot of 3's. But that's why I'm saying, let him shoot more 3's if they're giving him the shot. It's not like we're blazing the world with our offense anyway. It's time to really get some good data out of these guys.

He can't shoot three's either. If we ran plays to get Payton open 3's we'd lose by 50 everynight and he'd have a 23% fg you people are in Crack rock if you think Payton can shoot 3's.

Well we're already losing by close to 50 so let's go with it and see if we have a decent of or not.

[MagicStarwipe]

to put in in other words in terms of efficiency

frye is solid at 60%
gordon, harris, fournier are ok, a bit above average 54-56
vucevic is bad 52 (46th among centers - the guy some/most think is the best scorer)
dipo is terrible (54th among sg)
and then there's peyton (64th among pg)

You can't build a solid attack when three of your starters are bottom of the league in scoring efficiency. And those three are supposed to be the cornerstones, while the other three are the so called problem.

Terrible offensive system that doesn't suit the roster we have, implemented by a coach not known as a good offensive coach.

[Bensational]

A skilled big man doesn't mean much unless you've got the defense to match. Kanter was shipped out of Utah and then sent to the bench in OKC, both times in favour of a defensive big.

Our progression going forwards hinges on finding an elite playmaker from the wing spot, so we should invest our time in developing that. Elf, Dipo, Hezonja and Gordon are all our best shots for that. Let's get one of them firing at star level before we worry about getting a skilled big man.

I'm not saying we necessarily need to trade Vuc (I really don't care if we do though), but we should at least explore what OKC have already done and try him off the bench whilst other guys take their shot at stepping up as go to scorers.

1. Utah has Derek Favours playing right next to Gobert... Just like Blake Griffin playing along side Deandre Jordan which coincides with my point of obtaining another offensive big man to go along with a Rim Protector who is not a two way player. That idea/process itself is a tough when you see that 2-way, let alone Offensive big men don't grow on trees.

2. OKC, again has 2 Superstar players on the Perimeter (Durant, Westbrook) therefore they don't need a post presence and can get away with getting defensive with their bigs.

The team is already struggling to score, and you want to put your best offensive player on the bench. I don't get that logic here...

Favors wasn't a reliable scorer when Utah shipped Kanter out. His game has opened up a lot more in Kanter's absence.

And OKC having two elite perimeter players is exactly the reasoning behind why I want to see how far we can push our own perimeter guys.

And yeah, we're struggling to score WITH Vuc, and we're still losing. We've given him 2-3 solid years as a primary scoring option for the team and it's not been paying the kind of dividends you'd want for a team that wants to become contenders. So let's change our focus to someone else now and give them a shot. What have we got to lose? Losing a few more games?

[ChosenSavior]

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/1/30/10876658/it-sounds-like-someone-in-the-magic-locker-room-is-watching-porn/

Welp.

All you can do is laugh at this point.

[SOUL]

Maybe Harkless was back for a day.

[JF5]

Favors wasn't a reliable scorer when Utah shipped Kanter out. His game has opened up a lot more in Kanter's absence.

And OKC having two elite perimeter players is exactly the reasoning behind why I want to see how far we can push our own perimeter guys.

And yeah, we're struggling to score WITH Vuc, and we're still losing. We've given him 2-3 solid years as a primary scoring option for the team and it's not been paying the kind of dividends you'd want for a team that wants to become contenders. So let's change our focus to someone else now and give them a shot. What have we got to lose? Losing a few more games?

1. That's besides the point... And even then you still proved my point of having offensively oriented big next to a rim protector...

2. The Magic's perimeter isn't even half or a third of that Oklahoma perimeter... I don't know how would they all of a sudden become that good. I personally don't see anyone being anyone being more than all-stars/good players for our perimeter... Once again, If those guys are only at All-Star level you'd still need a big man to really compete and balance out the team.

3. This team is struggling to score... But maybe you haven't thought that's simply because this team doesn't have enough offensive weapons outside of Vucevic? Seriously, Fournier has been your 2nd best scorer for most of the season. The guy who was projected to be the 6th man/Role Player of the team has been your second best scorer. That should tell you about how poor the offense is...

[SOUL]

The offense is geared to those two though.. the others either don't get the attempts, opportunities, or we run an offense that really does them no favors (I'd say Tobias, Oladipo sometimes, Payton in a playmaking sense, Frye, AG, Hezonja) ...

[Landshark]

Maybe Harkless was back for a day.

You beat me to it.

[Bensational]

Favors wasn't a reliable scorer when Utah shipped Kanter out. His game has opened up a lot more in Kanter's absence.

And OKC having two elite perimeter players is exactly the reasoning behind why I want to see how far we can push our own perimeter guys.

And yeah, we're struggling to score WITH Vuc, and we're still losing. We've given him 2-3 solid years as a primary scoring option for the team and it's not been paying the kind of dividends you'd want for a team that wants to become contenders. So let's change our focus to someone else now and give them a shot. What have we got to lose? Losing a few more games?

1. That's besides the point... And even then you still proved my point of having offensively oriented big next to a rim protector...

2. The Magic's perimeter isn't even half or a third of that Oklahoma perimeter... I don't know how would they all of a sudden become that good. I personally don't see anyone being anyone being more than all-stars/good players for our perimeter... Once again, If those guys are only at All-Star level you'd still need a big man to really compete and balance out the team.

3. This team is struggling to score... But maybe you haven't thought that's simply because this team doesn't have enough offensive weapons outside of Vucevic? Seriously, Fournier has been your 2nd best scorer for most of the season. The guy who was projected to be the 6th man/Role Player of the team has been your second best scorer. That should tell you about how poor the offense is...

1. No, I proved MY point that in the absence of an offense dominating presence other players step up. Vuc and Oladipo both did it after AA was shipped out. I don't remember anyone saying "Vuc is an elite offensive talent that is being hamstrung by AA", but that was clearly happening in retrospect. We've got guys who need the ball in their hands and need to be charged with finding offense. Oladipo, Payton, Gordon and Hezonja all need a lot more ISO touches, PnRs and other plays geared towards helping them figure out how to create. They won't get that as long as a more ready now and effective option is on the floor in Vuc.

2. Sure, our guys aren't that good right now. But they need a heck of a lot more touches and opportunities to be primary scoring options so we can at least see where their ceiling is. I still have confidence that Gordon and Hezonja can become their own kind of dynamic duo, I think Payton has a lot more in his bag of tricks as a scorer which he isn't pulling out on a nightly basis, and I think Oladipo is our closest thing to a go-to scorer right now (someone who can create and get you a bucket when your offensive schemes aren't getting it done). Vuc is our best scorer, sure, but he's not someone I believe you can keep dumping it into all night long. Maybe if he gets in the paint more as he's suggested in recent comments? But even then, the guy has had 3 years as a top option and he's not cemented himself as a beast.

3. Fournier and Vuc dominate the ball more than anyone not named Oladipo. And even then, I'd trust the inefficient Oladipo over Fournier in the clutch. Fournier and Vuc would be great on a team like the Warriors or Spurs, but we're not that team and as our two best scorers they aren't getting the job done to make us a winning team. Hence, the importance of prioritising the development of our other scoring options.

I mean, where do you see the progress for the team if we just keep doing the same things over and over with Vuc and Fournier? Do you really see them transcending to Duncan/Ginobili levels of dominance? Because that's what it would take to justify delaying the emergence of other players to keep focusing on them.

[neuraldarwinism]