starting center poll

[drsd]

If you intend the entire 4 years of him being a backup I see your point, but I think there is a level of interchangeability that Biyombo provides. If it isn't working out with Vuc, we ship him out for somebody. If Ibaka doesn't re-sign next year, the loss doesn't hurt as much, etc.

At this point it really looks like a three-headed Big rotation. Vučević, Ibaka, Biyombo could all pace 30 mpg this season.

As the expression goes, it's not who starts, but who finishes. There it seems entirely positional for the game in hand.


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[drsd]

Elfrid Payton will be one of the top playmakers at his position.
Just because he can't shoot, doesn't make him a zero on offense.

Indeed:

[MitchellUK]

It's Vuc's to lose. He and Ibaka compliment each other far more than Ibaka and Biyombo, and Biyombo's game is tailor made for being the first big off the bench, to come in after 6-8 minutes and ratchet up the energy. Not to say things won't change over time, but you have to think that that is Plan A.

[OrlDave]

Jefferson, Olynyk and Turner are a few more offensive Cs who've also played off the bench, for teams that didn't have Durant and Westbrook, so that argument is debunked.

And people can continue to look at Elf and Gordon as if they exist in a vacuum and they're finished products who won't help on offense if they like. I do the same to Vuc with regards to his defense. But I have a lot of confidence in those guys improving dramatically on that end. I also like Vuc's chances of becoming a better defender under Vogel, too. That's why I'm not going to be upset with Vuc as a starter.

But people are sleeping on how much a Biyombo/Ibaka defense are going to help open up transition points for Elf/Fournier/Gordon, too. We're not going to be playing Skiles' horrible offense anymore, so we need to stop imagining how our players will operate in that model and consider the other options Vogel and Forcier will be able to create for us.

Lol, no that's not debunked. Those teams also have good offensive players in the SL. We really have 1. EF and he's... um... above average, I guess? Isaiah Thomas, for example, would be better than anyone in our SL by himself.

You're kidding, right? Those teams have ONE good offensive player each.

Paul George - 17.9fgas - 23.1ppg
Isaiah Thomas - 16.9fgas - 22.2ppg
Kemba Walker - 16.4fgas - 20.4ppg

Evan Fournier - 11.8fgas - 15.4ppg

It's not a stretch to imagine Fournier breaking the 20ppg mark if his attempts hit 16fgas, too.

BOSTON
Thomas - 22.2ppg
Avery - 15.2ppg
Crowder - 14.2ppg
Turner - 10.5ppg

CHARLOTTE
Walker - 20.4ppg
Batum - 14.9ppg
Marv Williams - 11.7ppg
Courtney Lee - 8.9ppg

INDIANA
George - 23.1ppg
Monta - 13.8ppg
Hill - 12.4ppg
Miles - 11.2ppg

You must have some seriously low opinions of our players if you don't think they can match those numbers.

Each of those guys can get their own shots, I'm not convinced Evan can do that. Again, maybe he can (I said that previously) or maybe it's Aaron who steps into that role, but I need to see it happen first. Nik's greatest weakness was his rim defending, primarily due to his lack of lateral mobility. One on one he's ok because of he is actually fairly long (his standing reach is 9.45 which is about what Towns is). Ibaka takes care of the rim issue and I think our defense would be good with Nik in. So you are hoping Evan turns into a goto scorer and I am hoping that Nik becomes a solid man defender... the Evan one seems more far fetched to me tbh, but you never know.

[MagicStarwipe]

Evan may be our top scorer next season, but it wouldn't shock me to see Ibaka or Gordon with an increased role surpassing him either.

[yeti_]

I voted Vooch but I don't think it really matters. He'll start the season as the starter for sure but I could see him losing his spot if the team isn't playing well. Whoever is needed more during the course of the game will play more. I see all 3 at about 28-30mins/gm.

[basketballRob]

Lol, no that's not debunked. Those teams also have good offensive players in the SL. We really have 1. EF and he's... um... above average, I guess? Isaiah Thomas, for example, would be better than anyone in our SL by himself.

You're kidding, right? Those teams have ONE good offensive player each.

Paul George - 17.9fgas - 23.1ppg
Isaiah Thomas - 16.9fgas - 22.2ppg
Kemba Walker - 16.4fgas - 20.4ppg

Evan Fournier - 11.8fgas - 15.4ppg

It's not a stretch to imagine Fournier breaking the 20ppg mark if his attempts hit 16fgas, too.

BOSTON
Thomas - 22.2ppg
Avery - 15.2ppg
Crowder - 14.2ppg
Turner - 10.5ppg

CHARLOTTE
Walker - 20.4ppg
Batum - 14.9ppg
Marv Williams - 11.7ppg
Courtney Lee - 8.9ppg

INDIANA
George - 23.1ppg
Monta - 13.8ppg
Hill - 12.4ppg
Miles - 11.2ppg

You must have some seriously low opinions of our players if you don't think they can match those numbers.

Each of those guys can get their own shots, I'm not convinced Evan can do that. Again, maybe he can (I said that previously) or maybe it's Aaron who steps into that role, but I need to see it happen first. Nik's greatest weakness was his rim defending, primarily due to his lack of lateral mobility. One on one he's ok because of he is actually fairly long (his standing reach is 9.45 which is about what Towns is). Ibaka takes care of the rim issue and I think our defense would be good with Nik in. So you are hoping Evan turns into a goto scorer and I am hoping that Nik becomes a solid man defender... the Evan one seems more far fetched to me tbh, but you never know.

That's the problem he doesn't have the lateral quickness and Vogel seems to want someone who can switch out on faster players. The other problem is with Vuc taking 18+ shots per 36 mpg he may eliminate Fournier and Ibaka from becoming all-stars.

Players aren't attracted to players that shoot a lot and play poor defense. Ask James Harden.

[OrlDave]

You're kidding, right? Those teams have ONE good offensive player each.

Paul George - 17.9fgas - 23.1ppg
Isaiah Thomas - 16.9fgas - 22.2ppg
Kemba Walker - 16.4fgas - 20.4ppg

Evan Fournier - 11.8fgas - 15.4ppg

It's not a stretch to imagine Fournier breaking the 20ppg mark if his attempts hit 16fgas, too.

BOSTON
Thomas - 22.2ppg
Avery - 15.2ppg
Crowder - 14.2ppg
Turner - 10.5ppg

CHARLOTTE
Walker - 20.4ppg
Batum - 14.9ppg
Marv Williams - 11.7ppg
Courtney Lee - 8.9ppg

INDIANA
George - 23.1ppg
Monta - 13.8ppg
Hill - 12.4ppg
Miles - 11.2ppg

You must have some seriously low opinions of our players if you don't think they can match those numbers.

Each of those guys can get their own shots, I'm not convinced Evan can do that. Again, maybe he can (I said that previously) or maybe it's Aaron who steps into that role, but I need to see it happen first. Nik's greatest weakness was his rim defending, primarily due to his lack of lateral mobility. One on one he's ok because of he is actually fairly long (his standing reach is 9.45 which is about what Towns is). Ibaka takes care of the rim issue and I think our defense would be good with Nik in. So you are hoping Evan turns into a goto scorer and I am hoping that Nik becomes a solid man defender... the Evan one seems more far fetched to me tbh, but you never know.

That's the problem he doesn't have the lateral quickness and Vogel seems to want someone who can switch out on faster players. The other problem is with Vuc taking 18+ shots per 36 mpg he may eliminate Fournier and Ibaka from becoming all-stars.

Players aren't attracted to players that shoot a lot and play poor defense. Ask James Harden.

He has Ibaka. Also, Nik is a center, if he's taking 18+ shots, that's on the scheme, not on him. For some reason last year the scheme was "get the ball to Nik at 18 feet" which ended up with a ton of midrange jumpers. Sure he made a decent %, but that's a poor strategy. Nik is a top post player in the NBA, he should be getting the ball in the paint pretty much exclusively and only taking midrange shots as an outlet.

[basketballRob]

It's possible that they were pumping his stats up, similar to Oladipo. I think Vuc's trade value will never be this high and it's a high probability he's traded.

http://swarmandsting.com/2016/07/03/charlotte-hornets-what-a-deal-for-nikola-vucevic-would-look-like/

[magickingdom]

It's possible that they were pumping his stats up, similar to Oladipo. I think Vuc's trade value will never be this high and it's a high probability he's traded.

http://swarmandsting.com/2016/07/03/charlotte-hornets-what-a-deal-for-nikola-vucevic-would-look-like/

What that article says really goes the same for the Magic too.
If we have the defense to put next to Vuc's, it would be crazy to trade away all his offense.
Like it has been said, unless he brings us an elite scorer, you keep him and his talent.

[Optimus_Steel]

Vuc should be the starter and let Bimbo cookies come in off the bench and go all out effort off the bench.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[OrlandO]

It's possible that they were pumping his stats up, similar to Oladipo. I think Vuc's trade value will never be this high and it's a high probability he's traded.

http://swarmandsting.com/2016/07/03/charlotte-hornets-what-a-deal-for-nikola-vucevic-would-look-like/

What that article says really goes the same for the Magic too.
If we have the defense to put next to Vuc's, it would be crazy to trade away all his offense.
Like it has been said, unless he brings us an elite scorer, you keep him and his talent.

You don't even have to make that argument because the "haul" they're proposing is a joke.

[basketballRob]

It's possible that they were pumping his stats up, similar to Oladipo. I think Vuc's trade value will never be this high and it's a high probability he's traded.

http://swarmandsting.com/2016/07/03/charlotte-hornets-what-a-deal-for-nikola-vucevic-would-look-like/

What that article says really goes the same for the Magic too.
If we have the defense to put next to Vuc's, it would be crazy to trade away all his offense.
Like it has been said, unless he brings us an elite scorer, you keep him and his talent.

You don't even have to make that argument because the "haul" they're proposing is a joke.

I was using that as an example that Vuc has value in a trade right now.

[OrlDave]

What that article says really goes the same for the Magic too.
If we have the defense to put next to Vuc's, it would be crazy to trade away all his offense.
Like it has been said, unless he brings us an elite scorer, you keep him and his talent.

You don't even have to make that argument because the "haul" they're proposing is a joke.

I was using that as an example that Vuc has value in a trade right now.

Of course he has value, who even disputes that?

[p0peye]

Biyombo is 20-25mpg backup, pure defense and hustle, with negative offense. I don't think this is even an issue, as poll results so far show. IMO only a few people on the board are advocating Bismack, possibly seduced by whirlwind of changes last few days or by their personal disdain for white non-shotblocking center in Vučević.

Magic may opt for new starting C by next offseason, but it likely is not Biyombo, nor Ibaka as suggested here.

20-25mpg? Im assuming you think biz and vuc can play together then?

I think they would be more successful than Vučević and Dedmon have been.

[Bensational]

Each of those guys can get their own shots, I'm not convinced Evan can do that. Again, maybe he can (I said that previously) or maybe it's Aaron who steps into that role, but I need to see it happen first. Nik's greatest weakness was his rim defending, primarily due to his lack of lateral mobility. One on one he's ok because of he is actually fairly long (his standing reach is 9.45 which is about what Towns is). Ibaka takes care of the rim issue and I think our defense would be good with Nik in. So you are hoping Evan turns into a goto scorer and I am hoping that Nik becomes a solid man defender... the Evan one seems more far fetched to me tbh, but you never know.

I absolutely see the logic in wanting Vuc at C with Ibaka. There's no question about that, and I do think he's got a shot at improving as a defender.

But you've got me wrong in terms of hoping Fournier becomes a go to scorer. I just expect that as a byproduct of a team with BB/Ibaka/Gordon/Payton as the other options. What I'm hoping for is that the Magic prioritize defense, and setting a tone with defense first and foremost amongst our starters, and I think a BB/Ibaka tandem is the way forward on that front.

[Skin]

Actually come to think about it, I think Vuc will be our starting C out the gates, but that Biyombo will over take him.

Biggest reason for that is I think Ibaka will break out as a scorer and that will resolve all the concerns about needing Vuc's offense.

Ibaka and Biyombo are my preferred starting combination. Yup. Definitely yup. Defense will define the identity of this team.

Vuc off the bench is IDEAL.

[drsd]

It's Vuc's to lose.

This is a key statement. If Vučević is not performing, Orlando has depth to go another direction. But he will get his chance to prove he fits the newly retooled roster.

Also, over 4 seasons, Vučević has averaged 13+ missed games per season. His "best" attended season had 5 missed games. We can reasonably expect Orlando to start Centers "Not-named-Vučević" over the course of the coming season.


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[tiderulz]

Evan may be our top scorer next season, but it wouldn't shock me to see Ibaka or Gordon with an increased role surpassing him either.

it would shock me greatly to see Gordon surpassing Fournier as a scorer next season. but i will admit that i do not see the "star" potential in Gordon that other people see. IMO, he needs to become Matrix 2.0, taller more athletic version. I dont ever see him becoming a scoring star.

[BadMofoPimp]

Bismark does not have that high of a BBIQ. Vooch will be sorely needed to start and Bismark can backup both front court spots with his defense.