The Venting Thread (2016-2017 Edition)

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

The city of orlando is slowly losing complete interest in the magic.

The city has already lost interest. There is a beautiful arena with an atrocious NBA product housed inside it.

[drsd]

My vent: the Magic is not showing Heart !!!!


..

[OrlChamps2030]

The city of orlando is slowly losing complete interest in the magic.

Slowly. Lol

[ChosenSavior]

“I felt like I had an immediate connection with Rob Hennigan, and once we spoke we realized that we were both in Boston during the same time,’’ Vogel said. “We shared a common thread in terms of our leadership styles and the idea of organizational togetherness. Alex Martins was great, (Assistant GM) Scott Perry was great and the reputation of the DeVos family is unparalleled.’’

“I think this Magic team has really good speed and we can do it even better than we did in Indianapolis,’’ Vogel said. “I think Aaron Gordon’s ability to play at the power forward position in today’s game gives you four guys who can push it and run and that’s incredibly valuable. That’s not even mentioning what Vic can do and what Elfrid can do. Evan can run and Hezonja’s ability to run the floor and have that electricity when he attacks the basket and finishes – I think this could be an exceptional running team and that’s the style that we’re going to play.

“We grinded it out a couple of years there in Indianapolis because that’s what the personnel dictated and the style of play that group needed to play with,’’ continued Vogel, who twice guided Indy teams to the Eastern Conference Finals. “But I believe that this game is meant to be played in attack mode. And I really believe we have the speed and athleticism to do that with this (Magic) group.’’ ~ Frank Vogel

Bolded the important stuff to illustrate how much Frank has been lying to us this season. This has been one of the most frustrating seasons I have followed since being a fan of the Magic and I'm tired of it. All through this rebuild, the Magic kept preaching that they wanted to model the San Antonio Spurs and have done nothing of the sort. Directionless franchises will always be losers. I hate that we are in that category now.

[tiderulz]

“I felt like I had an immediate connection with Rob Hennigan, and once we spoke we realized that we were both in Boston during the same time,’’ Vogel said. “We shared a common thread in terms of our leadership styles and the idea of organizational togetherness. Alex Martins was great, (Assistant GM) Scott Perry was great and the reputation of the DeVos family is unparalleled.’’

“I think this Magic team has really good speed and we can do it even better than we did in Indianapolis,’’ Vogel said. “I think Aaron Gordon’s ability to play at the power forward position in today’s game gives you four guys who can push it and run and that’s incredibly valuable. That’s not even mentioning what Vic can do and what Elfrid can do. Evan can run and Hezonja’s ability to run the floor and have that electricity when he attacks the basket and finishes – I think this could be an exceptional running team and that’s the style that we’re going to play.

“We grinded it out a couple of years there in Indianapolis because that’s what the personnel dictated and the style of play that group needed to play with,’’ continued Vogel, who twice guided Indy teams to the Eastern Conference Finals. “But I believe that this game is meant to be played in attack mode. And I really believe we have the speed and athleticism to do that with this (Magic) group.’’ ~ Frank Vogel

Bolded the important stuff to illustrate how much Frank has been lying to us this season. This has been one of the most frustrating seasons I have followed since being a fan of the Magic and I'm tired of it. All through this rebuild, the Magic kept preaching that they wanted to model the San Antonio Spurs and have done nothing of the sort. Directionless franchises will always be losers. I hate that we are in that category now.

why do you say lie? you have to learn to walk before you can run. Its very possible he didnt know how non-nba ready Hezonja was, how low AG's offensive BBIQ is and how truly bad his shooting is. He has to fix those things first because he can do more advanced stuff.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

“I felt like I had an immediate connection with Rob Hennigan, and once we spoke we realized that we were both in Boston during the same time,’’ Vogel said. “We shared a common thread in terms of our leadership styles and the idea of organizational togetherness. Alex Martins was great, (Assistant GM) Scott Perry was great and the reputation of the DeVos family is unparalleled.’’

“I think this Magic team has really good speed and we can do it even better than we did in Indianapolis,’’ Vogel said. “I think Aaron Gordon’s ability to play at the power forward position in today’s game gives you four guys who can push it and run and that’s incredibly valuable. That’s not even mentioning what Vic can do and what Elfrid can do. Evan can run and Hezonja’s ability to run the floor and have that electricity when he attacks the basket and finishes – I think this could be an exceptional running team and that’s the style that we’re going to play.

“We grinded it out a couple of years there in Indianapolis because that’s what the personnel dictated and the style of play that group needed to play with,’’ continued Vogel, who twice guided Indy teams to the Eastern Conference Finals. “But I believe that this game is meant to be played in attack mode. And I really believe we have the speed and athleticism to do that with this (Magic) group.’’ ~ Frank Vogel

Bolded the important stuff to illustrate how much Frank has been lying to us this season. This has been one of the most frustrating seasons I have followed since being a fan of the Magic and I'm tired of it. All through this rebuild, the Magic kept preaching that they wanted to model the San Antonio Spurs and have done nothing of the sort. Directionless franchises will always be losers. I hate that we are in that category now.

why do you say lie? you have to learn to walk before you can run. Its very possible he didnt know how non-nba ready Hezonja was, how low AG's offensive BBIQ is and how truly bad his shooting is. He has to fix those things first because he can do more advanced stuff.

Agree. I haven't turned on Vogel because I think he can be the force of stabilization once the Hennigan era is over. Vogel can steady the ship for the next few years while our new management can rebuild and refocus.

[BadMofoPimp]

I don't think Vogel planned on Ibaka being here. Vogel has stated before the Ibaka signing that AG was his PF. Now, he has to change his style of coaching to incorporate a player who is a poor shooter at SF.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I don't think Vogel planned on Ibaka being here. Vogel has stated before the Ibaka signing that AG was his PF. Now, he has to change his style of coaching to incorporate a player who is a poor shooter at SF.

You mean Ibaka trade.

[eyriq]

Skiles/Martins > Vogel/Henny

[OrlandO]

I don't think Vogel planned on Ibaka being here. Vogel has stated before the Ibaka signing that AG was his PF. Now, he has to change his style of coaching to incorporate a player who is a poor shooter at SF.

Which is odd because he refuses to ever play AG at PF even though there are minutes available for it. So he was ready to start AG at PF, but now he can't play spot minutes at PF against bench units? Just odd...

[MagicStarwipe]

He also said we'd hardly ever see Biz/Vuc combo, but we see it a lot.

[zuppafly]

We're getting to that part of the season where we make or break the year and it's kind of easy to see that we're not going to be a playoff team and I'm really afraid to see another trade that makes no sense other than to keep us on a treadmill for even more years.

Also, it's the same part of the season where I start to tune out from the team and start enjoying watching other games(random ones,no particular team) rather than depressing by following only the Magic. Then, we usually have a strong finish to the season, making us drop out of the best lottery spots only to give some kind of false hope for the next season.
It's starting to to be a trend and not a pretty one for any real Magic supporter.

Had the city not built that new arena and by now I really think the talks of moving would be real. The fan base in Orlando is already thin (just listening to any home games and hearing the chants and cheers for opposing teams from other fans is disgusting) and the organization is not doing any favours at all to change that.

[FFBlitzace]

Skiles/Martins > Vogel/Henny

Just as a reminder, eyriq hasn't watched a single game this season. No really, it's true.

[Furinkazan]

Skiles/Martins > Vogel/Henny

Just as a reminder, eyriq hasn't watched a single game this season. No really, it's true.

He didnt miss much

[dsg2021]

I think the only real good outcomes of any team in the lottery (tanking or not-trying-to) has been Min, Mil and Cle. Two out of three had #1 picks. But Mil out-drafted everyone. Then there is a bunch of solid gets in those top 10's of lotteries, and some teams who have mastered drafting in the teens and twenty's really well (like Bos, Chi).. but being in the lottery is not worth it these days.

At least this era of the FO can say they drafted like the 2nd or 3rd best player of the whole draft in like 2 out of their 3 big top five pick drafts. That's not going to cut it for championship aspirations but it is still soundly logical to keep that kind of FO performance in place. It seems the only big mistakes have been EP, not keeping more cap space open (which might help get that #1 one year..), and maybe the Mario draft & maybe the Tobias trade for me. And its a little less than bad faith in Mario and more in the what-if of drafting another player. I also put a maybe on the Tobias trade because I always thought he should have been way more offensively involved, he is picking it up in Det, but not at a regret level just yet either. Instead, I just thought if he was playing with the ball as much as VO was, then he would have done it at a Melo-comparable level eventually. Then, the problem with the cap situation is actually also very manageable too, if FAs want to come that is.. The Magic can make that space for them with crafty trades and moves, but its like Orl went out and got corner players in Biz, Serge, Vuc, Fournier. Players that sound good on paper as a foundational big man or sharpshooter SG, but bad without a rounded out and offensively dangerous team.

Which leads to my biggest mistake.. the poor EP situation. I loved his rookie year, and I was hyped up big time. He looked Westbrook-lite when driving, tons of 2 way energy, and the clutch stats were through the roof. But since then, he's been very sporadic and not really improving enough. He will also never shoot well.. We look at all these teams with great PG's and Coaches who say their PG is the engine of the team.. and EP never gives us that feeling very much. He already hurts more than helps by being a bad shooter.. This is like.. the debate can't even begin. He just sucks. It is sad that DJ outplays him in minutes played quite a bit. This is happening to EP through three very different Coaches too.. And he hurts us even more when he's on the floor with AG, because even though AG is also a non-shooter, at least it's at a much less critically offensive position, where AG is loaded with energy and potential, and he is showing improvement game by game.

My solution (in no particular order of importance),
1) I liked the huevos of pulling off the EP deal and I think the Magic should not be afraid to do it again, but get it right this time.
2) A draft selection/trade will be helped by settling on some core players too. I think this should be AG, Ibaka, Vuc, Fournier, and maybe Biz in about that order of core value, which will lead to placing an emphasis on pulling a big PG draft selection.
3) Keep cap a little more open. Don't get 3 backup PG's at the price of 13 mil per just because the starter sucks. If your starter sucks, deal with that. Maybe don't keep Biz if you can get Dedmon or a comparable player for much cheaper. But with the rising cap trends, he is probably not a must-cut for big cap space either.
4) If there is no huge upside superstar opportunity, then draft/sign/trade for fit a little bit more than upside. But keep cap in mind too.

Look at how Bos was fluttering around until the Isaiah Thomas trade. A PG is huge these days.. look at the effect of converting Harden into the full time starter PG in Hou! It is also not hard to get a 5th-8th seed in the East these days either. The question is wtf is Orl doing? They need to model after an offense like SAS's, which models on passing WITH shooting. And they need to find a superstar in a league that has GSW and CLE in it. If there is no superstar, then they just start drafting/acquiring for fit a little bit more than upside. We have some core pieces.. like some really good corner pieces. Now it is time to fill it in with real players who would fit really damn well with them. And even a "fit-player" will increase his league value too (look at IT in Pho to Bos!). A team with value can trade it for a superstar or keep its valuable pieces if they fit that well together (top 2-3 seed).