Will we learn from history?

Skin · Post #1 » by **Skin** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:00 am

Have you ever imagined what the Magic could've done with Tracy McGrady ('03-04) and Dwight Howard ('04-05)?

Or what the they could've done with Dwight Howard ('11-12) with Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo or another young prospect in the '13 Draft? You could say Dwight would've made us win more games, but maybe we end up with CJ McCollum or Giannis Antetokoumpo instead...

What if the Magic kept them long enough for them to see a bright future was right around the corner?

Are we going through the same motions with Serge Ibaka? If we trade him at the deadline for scraps and end up getting a Top 3 pick this summer and land a guy like Josh Jackson are we going to wonder what would the Magic have looked like with Jackson and Ibaka? Are we being unnecessarily impatient and doing the "panic" move because once again we are sick of the current moment in time thinking that the only thing that counts is now??? Is there potential of a quick turn around if we just stay the course?

Am I the only one who thinks the money savings from NOT paying Ibaka will end up going to waste anyways? OK, so we don't spend $27-30M on one guy... is spending is on 2 guys at $13-15M better for us? Or is it better to sign the next Jeff Green on a 1 year "harmless" contract? ...rince and repeat until a Star finally agrees to take our money? Are there really folks out there that think we have a chance at signing a max FA that is a true elite star??? How many years are we away from that?

Maybe this is some rambling, but what do you guys think?

VFX · Post #2 » by **VFX** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:36 am

Skin wrote:Have you ever imagined what the Magic could've done with Tracy McGrady ('03-04) and Dwight Howard ('04-05)?

Or what the they could've done with Dwight Howard ('11-12) with Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo or another young prospect in the '13 Draft? You could say Dwight would've made us win more games, but maybe we end up with CJ McCollum or Giannis Antetokoumpo instead...

What if the Magic kept them long enough for them to see a bright future was right around the corner?

Are we going through the same motions with Serge Ibaka? If we trade him at the deadline for scraps and end up getting a Top 3 pick this summer and land a guy like Josh Jackson are we going to wonder what would the Magic have looked like with Jackson and Ibaka? Are we being unnecessarily impatient and doing the "panic" move because once again we are sick of the current moment in time thinking that the only thing that counts is now??? Is there potential of a quick turn around if we just stay the course?

Am I the only one who thinks the money savings from NOT paying Ibaka will end up going to waste anyways? OK, so we don't spend $27-30M on one guy... is spending is on 2 guys at $13-15M better for us? Or is it better to sign the next Jeff Green on a 1 year "harmless" contract? ...rince and repeat until a Star finally agrees to take our money? Are there really folks out there that think we have a chance at signing a max FA that is a true elite star??? How many years are we away from that?

Maybe this is some rambling, but what do you guys think?

The big question is whether or not he would even resign with the Magic. In theory it would be great to lose enough games to land top talent in the draft AND be able to retain Ibaka. However, it's also not smart to take the risk of him walking for absolutely nothing and having the Oladipo trade net us nothing but salty fans.

Right now if I had to place a bet, I would venture to guess he isn't super content with losing and being on a top 3 lottery team. It probably wasn't what he envisioned after winning so much in OKC.

I would also add that the rest of this roster needs to go as quickly as possible. Trading away Ibaka and as many players as possible would probably benefit the Magic. Yeah we don't have a good shot at signing a 'star' player, but retaining Ibaka isn't necessarily a fail safe move either. It's not even like he's been that amazing for his time in Orlando. Mentioning him in the same breath as Tmac and Dwight is comical. Serge is obviously not a go-to player, but a piece you add to a multi talented roster.

chiefholmes · Post #3 » by **chiefholmes** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:35 am

For me, Serge is the guy you want to add to take your team to that next "elite level" to contend for championships. He isn't the cornerstone of the franchise and he isn't the guy you bring in to turn your team around (what we did this year). He is the guy you add to a perennial playoff team that can't get past the Conference Semi's or Finals.
As has been said, I don't think he re signs with us, and I don't think we take the chance to find out.
We all wanted to see the positive side of the move and believe it was the established high level veteran piece we need to develop our young players and take us to the playoffs and beyond.
In reality, we were asking a long time high level player in this league (who didn't have a great deal to achieve or prove) to come in, transform our defence and increase his own offensive output beyond anything he'd done to this stage in his career. All whilst being the locker room leader and experienced veteran with a winning background to a team that had lost for 5 years.
A failed plan that we should now move on from. Is it ideal? No! Would Victor have been THE guy, also likely no. But this is sport and this is what happens. We got the best of the Vucevic deal and the Fournier deal. We got the best of the Harris deal (at the time). But hindsight and foresight go hand in hand with fans disgruntlement. It is what it is and we are not where we want to be. Let's see what we can get for Serge in the next 2 weeks and see what the summer brings.

Skybox · Post #4 » by **Skybox** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:11 pm

I'd be absolutely willing to lock Serge in (and trade the rest for picks) but I'm assuming the FO has a pretty solid vibe about him wanting to stay or not and also about his effect as a team leader. If he was a solid teammate committed to the rebuilding process, he'd be the last man standing here (since cap space isn't a huge issue - as people have said "who better are you going to spend it on"). You never really know what's happening here. I take every theory I read here as well as in the media as likely BS/speculation/misdirection. I'd be (relatively) thrilled if the dust settled with 2 lottery picks this year, 2 next year, Ibaka, and a relatively different team in place...I only think he gets traded if he wants to or if he hasn't displayed any commitment/leadership off camera.

Nemesis21 · Post #5 » by **Nemesis21** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:27 pm

IIRC, T-Mac wanted no part of the Magic drafting a big out of high school(Dwight), he wanted a legit Center to play with. In hindsight, should he have stayed? Yes, turns out he didn't win much(never got past 2nd round in playoffs) with Yao.

But let's pretend, (we probably don't get Hedo)

Jameer
M Miller (hated getting rid of him, he and T Mac were close)
T Mac
Rashard?
Dwight

MagicStarwipe · Post #6 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:33 pm

Ibaka isn't on that level. We'd need more than just "new stud rookie" and him. He wouldn't stick around for that rebuild. "New stud rookie" + AG and Elf could be nice though.

tiderulz · Post #7 » by **tiderulz** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:35 pm

Skin wrote:Have you ever imagined what the Magic could've done with Tracy McGrady ('03-04) and Dwight Howard ('04-05)?

Or what the they could've done with Dwight Howard ('11-12) with Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo or another young prospect in the '13 Draft? You could say Dwight would've made us win more games, but maybe we end up with CJ McCollum or Giannis Antetokoumpo instead...

What if the Magic kept them long enough for them to see a bright future was right around the corner?

Are we going through the same motions with Serge Ibaka? If we trade him at the deadline for scraps and end up getting a Top 3 pick this summer and land a guy like Josh Jackson are we going to wonder what would the Magic have looked like with Jackson and Ibaka? Are we being unnecessarily impatient and doing the "panic" move because once again we are sick of the current moment in time thinking that the only thing that counts is now??? Is there potential of a quick turn around if we just stay the course?

Am I the only one who thinks the money savings from NOT paying Ibaka will end up going to waste anyways? OK, so we don't spend $27-30M on one guy... is spending is on 2 guys at $13-15M better for us? Or is it better to sign the next Jeff Green on a 1 year "harmless" contract? ...rince and repeat until a Star finally agrees to take our money? Are there really folks out there that think we have a chance at signing a max FA that is a true elite star??? How many years are we away from that?

Maybe this is some rambling, but what do you guys think?

i would be for keeping Ibaka, but at $20mil at the most. He just isnt a $27-30mil type of player.

Last Guardian · Post #8 » by **Last Guardian** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:19 pm

No, I'm never going to wonder what the team could look like with Ibaka. He really isn't that good. Dwight and T-Mac...sure that would have been epic. I don't care where Ibaka goes, he is channing frye who blocks a shot more often.

woosah · Post #9 » by **woosah** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:40 pm

Ibaka is a good player. He is just a good player though and not a 30mil guy. No other team is gonna pay him that this summer, but the "losing team tax" is what we would have to pay to keep him and i rather not. Good luck to him wherever he goes.

drsd · Post #10 » by **drsd** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Skin wrote:Have you ever imagined what the Magic could've done with Tracy McGrady ('03-04) and Dwight Howard ('04-05)?

A couple weeks back McGrady himself pondered the question. His impatience did hurt his career.

It was Howard's forth year that the Magic was winning loads of games. Waiting these 4 years, he was still a 20/5/5 player and the Magic might have won a title behind a starting five of Nelson/McGrady/Turkoglou/Lewis/Howard. That's a lot of scoring and a lot of ball handlers.

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