Serge Ibaka on Vertical Podcast: He wanted to play small ball C

[pepe1991]

There was obviously a shift in thinking after Ibaka came in and then the team went on to sign Biz. Maybe Gordon was making a much bigger push to play SF, leaving Vogel without a PF? Maybe Vogel saw Biz/Ibaka as a quick way to replicate what he'd done in Indiana?

One of the shortfalls of a small ball team headlined by Ibaka would be who would've been playing the wings. Hezonja clearly wasn't ready (in Vogel's opinion), Meeks was injured and not due to join the team for a while. That just leaves Green. Knowing how much Vogel loves him some Green, Im surprised he didn't try it.

Ibaka
Gordon
Green?
Fournier
Payton

Either way, feels like the line of thought of Ibaka as a small ball 5 went out the window once we signed Biz.

I agree, i was hoping to see Ibaka at C, Gordon at PF and whoever at SF whole season long. Never happend.

It's kind a sad to figure out that Skiles did much better job with his roster than Vogel in his first year.

[anothermagicfan]

Who cares about what Serge ibaka wanted to play. He was not very good for us and he's gone now. On with the magic future!

[dkb33]

As a Raptors fan Serge Ibaka has looked nice as a center beside Patrick Patterson. The Magic had no choice but to play him at PF though with Nikola Vučević/Bismack Biyombo making pretty big money at the center spot. It appears as though it is quite obvious they should have went with either Biyombo or Ibaka but not both. We Raptors fans love Biz but frankly Ibaka is a much better player. Anyway wish you the best with coin toss Ross but I will warn you he is the definition of a hot/cold player.

[VFX]

There was obviously a shift in thinking after Ibaka came in and then the team went on to sign Biz. Maybe Gordon was making a much bigger push to play SF, leaving Vogel without a PF? Maybe Vogel saw Biz/Ibaka as a quick way to replicate what he'd done in Indiana?

One of the shortfalls of a small ball team headlined by Ibaka would be who would've been playing the wings. Hezonja clearly wasn't ready (in Vogel's opinion), Meeks was injured and not due to join the team for a while. That just leaves Green. Knowing how much Vogel loves him some Green, Im surprised he didn't try it.

Ibaka
Gordon
Green?
Fournier
Payton

Either way, feels like the line of thought of Ibaka as a small ball 5 went out the window once we signed Biz.

The move to sign Biz and trade for Ibaka screamed AG at the 3. Pretty serious gamble considering AG failed miserably despite everyone assuming it was the right move to go bigger, contrary to the rest of the league. Even with that lineup, there are two players on the floor capable of hitting a 3 - Ibaka included.

[PennytoShaq]

Safe to say the Magic started shopping Victor as soon as his camp made it clear they wanted a max extension that summer.

What I believe happened is they tried to make a trade for Jimmy Butler and couldn't pull it off, and Ibaka came up. I think Rob was intrigued by Ibaka and decided to try and make the two big man thing work, and it failed.

Will it cost Rob his job as GM, that is the question.

[JAY DASH]

I don't think we would have won more games with Ibaka at center we would get killed on the glass !

it would have just shifted our weaknesses. Ibaka is not very valuable on a team without superstar playmaker/ scorers, maybe henny thought Elf,Fournier, or AG would take that great leap forward in improving there offense. I love the way AG and Elf are playing lately but we still aren't contending for a playoff spot without that great offensive weapon. Hopefully Elf and AG keep performing well (in losses) this year and take another step next year to go along with our lottery drafted offensive star and we get into the playoffs next year !

Agreed. Also Serge is Full of s*** also. There's certain teams he doesn't mind playing Center against, absolutely...but he's not trying to bang with the real Centers. Game against the Mavs...sure he'll guard Nerlens or Dirk effectively. He tried guarding Dwight and it wasn't working. Had to bring Jonas back in. Next game they tried letting him guard Whiteside and they got killed. The book is out on Serge. Uptempo games against weak frontlines he's fine. Slower paced games where he actually has to fight for rebounds is where he ends up getting exposed. 3 boards against ATL. 4 against Miami. Lowry will help them on the glass when he gets back though.

[pepe1991]

I don't think we would have won more games with Ibaka at center we would get killed on the glass !

it would have just shifted our weaknesses. Ibaka is not very valuable on a team without superstar playmaker/ scorers, maybe henny thought Elf,Fournier, or AG would take that great leap forward in improving there offense. I love the way AG and Elf are playing lately but we still aren't contending for a playoff spot without that great offensive weapon. Hopefully Elf and AG keep performing well (in losses) this year and take another step next year to go along with our lottery drafted offensive star and we get into the playoffs next year !

Agreed. Also Serge is Full of s*** also. There's certain teams he doesn't mind playing Center against, absolutely...but he's not trying to bang with the real Centers. Game against the Mavs...sure he'll guard Nerlens or Dirk effectively. He tried guarding Dwight and it wasn't working. Had to bring Jonas back in. Next game they tried letting him guard Whiteside and they got killed. The book is out on Serge. Uptempo games against weak frontlines he's fine. Slower paced games where he actually has to fight for rebounds is where he ends up getting exposed. 3 boards against ATL. 4 against Miami. Lowry will help them on the glass when he gets back though.

Looking at Whiteside highlights... Where did you see him getting destroyed by side?

Whiteside first 2 points: mid range jumper over Jonas
free trows- drawing foul on Jonas
Transition 2 points against nobody (Jonas late in transition )
Baseline jumper over Jonas
two free trows because some white boy fouled him

so he scored two points on Ibaka, from offensive rebound that bricked from top of glass. Look, i know Ibaka probably was in position of power with Magic because he was best player and there is a chance that he said that he won't play center and he should not be full time center, and yes guys like Whiteside and Cousins would in 7 games series kill him, but in that game, on defense he really didn't do bad job and he wasn't destroyed by Whiteside by any mean.
He still had 9 points, 4 rebounds 3 blocks, we all know that he is bad rebounder, nothing new.

[JAY DASH]

I don't think we would have won more games with Ibaka at center we would get killed on the glass !

it would have just shifted our weaknesses. Ibaka is not very valuable on a team without superstar playmaker/ scorers, maybe henny thought Elf,Fournier, or AG would take that great leap forward in improving there offense. I love the way AG and Elf are playing lately but we still aren't contending for a playoff spot without that great offensive weapon. Hopefully Elf and AG keep performing well (in losses) this year and take another step next year to go along with our lottery drafted offensive star and we get into the playoffs next year !

Agreed. Also Serge is Full of s*** also. There's certain teams he doesn't mind playing Center against, absolutely...but he's not trying to bang with the real Centers. Game against the Mavs...sure he'll guard Nerlens or Dirk effectively. He tried guarding Dwight and it wasn't working. Had to bring Jonas back in. Next game they tried letting him guard Whiteside and they got killed. The book is out on Serge. Uptempo games against weak frontlines he's fine. Slower paced games where he actually has to fight for rebounds is where he ends up getting exposed. 3 boards against ATL. 4 against Miami. Lowry will help them on the glass when he gets back though.

Looking at Whiteside highlights... Where did you see him getting destroyed by side?

Whiteside first 2 points: mid range jumper over Jonas
free trows- drawing foul on Jonas
Transition 2 points against nobody (Jonas late in transition )
Baseline jumper over Jonas
two free trows because some white boy fouled him

so he scored two points on Ibaka, from offensive rebound that bricked from top of glass. Look, i know Ibaka probably was in position of power with Magic because he was best player and there is a chance that he said that he won't play center and he should not be full time center, and yes guys like Whiteside and Cousins would in 7 games series kill him, but in that game, on defense he really didn't do bad job and he wasn't destroyed by Whiteside by any mean.
He still had 9 points, 4 rebounds 3 blocks, we all know that he is bad rebounder, nothing new.

I said "they" got killed. As in the entire team. The game was over before the 4th qtr. On ball defense isn't the problem with Serge, it's competing for rebounds. He doesn't fare well against real frontlines in that department. As a team they didn't rebound bad that game at all, solely speaking on Serge's production.

[pepe1991]

Agreed. Also Serge is Full of s*** also. There's certain teams he doesn't mind playing Center against, absolutely...but he's not trying to bang with the real Centers. Game against the Mavs...sure he'll guard Nerlens or Dirk effectively. He tried guarding Dwight and it wasn't working. Had to bring Jonas back in. Next game they tried letting him guard Whiteside and they got killed. The book is out on Serge. Uptempo games against weak frontlines he's fine. Slower paced games where he actually has to fight for rebounds is where he ends up getting exposed. 3 boards against ATL. 4 against Miami. Lowry will help them on the glass when he gets back though.

Looking at Whiteside highlights... Where did you see him getting destroyed by side?

Whiteside first 2 points: mid range jumper over Jonas
free trows- drawing foul on Jonas
Transition 2 points against nobody (Jonas late in transition )
Baseline jumper over Jonas
two free trows because some white boy fouled him

so he scored two points on Ibaka, from offensive rebound that bricked from top of glass. Look, i know Ibaka probably was in position of power with Magic because he was best player and there is a chance that he said that he won't play center and he should not be full time center, and yes guys like Whiteside and Cousins would in 7 games series kill him, but in that game, on defense he really didn't do bad job and he wasn't destroyed by Whiteside by any mean.
He still had 9 points, 4 rebounds 3 blocks, we all know that he is bad rebounder, nothing new.

I said "they" got killed. As in the entire team. The game was over before the 4th qtr. On ball defense isn't the problem with Serge, it's competing for rebounds. He doesn't fare well against real frontlines in that department.

Ibaka was always frustrating to watch. He always had crazy tools to be one of best defenders of his generation, and he was that around 2011-2013 than he dropped off map in few years. Dude averaged 3,7 blocks per game in 2011-12 . In that first years he was actually solid rebounder. PER 36 he had 10 RPG. But for some reason his athletic decline started at age of what? 25? Maybe due his questionable age. Really don't know.

[___Rand___]

While Serge filled a huge hole for us Raptors even with his 3 point shot he isn't the guy I used to watch in OKC and thus a disappointment. Bismack was a better defender in Toronto. As a few guys posted here, Casey kept trying to use Serge as center in late games at times at a cost to the team. Biz made a better center for a small ball lineup. I loved how he marked that lane as his.

That said Biz doesn't have the same swagger here as he had in Toronto. He played with swagger and pride. That might be an indication of the team temperature.

[Xatticus]

While Serge filled a huge hole for us Raptors even with his 3 point shot he isn't the guy I used to watch in OKC and thus a disappointment. Bismack was a better defender in Toronto. As a few guys posted here, Casey kept trying to use Serge as center in late games at times at a cost to the team. Biz made a better center for a small ball lineup. I loved how he marked that lane as his.

That said Biz doesn't have the same swagger here as he had in Toronto. He played with swagger and pride. That might be an indication of the team temperature.

It's just who he is. He is fairly indifferent at the defensive end, but he does have the instincts to pick up his share of blocks. He doesn't rebound well for a player with his tools. There will be times when he has a clear advantage, but somehow doesn't come up with the rebound because he got outworked. His energy is very low most of the time.

He wants to shoot. A lot. He will trail on breaks hoping for an open three. He will release from screens way too early hoping to get the pass for a jumper. He's actually really good at it though, so he is still a really useful player, albeit a selfish one.

[___Rand___]

While Serge filled a huge hole for us Raptors even with his 3 point shot he isn't the guy I used to watch in OKC and thus a disappointment. Bismack was a better defender in Toronto. As a few guys posted here, Casey kept trying to use Serge as center in late games at times at a cost to the team. Biz made a better center for a small ball lineup. I loved how he marked that lane as his.

That said Biz doesn't have the same swagger here as he had in Toronto. He played with swagger and pride. That might be an indication of the team temperature.

It's just who he is. He is fairly indifferent at the defensive end, but he does have the instincts to pick up his share of blocks. He doesn't rebound well for a player with his tools. There will be times when he has a clear advantage, but somehow doesn't come up with the rebound because he got outworked. His energy is very low most of the time.

He wants to shoot. A lot. He will trail on breaks hoping for an open three. He will release from screens way too early hoping to get the pass for a jumper. He's actually really good at it though, so he is still a really useful player, albeit a selfish one.

Yeah something's off with him. He had some enthusiasm early on. the other day we played OKC and he played it like he was playing against Lakers or Brooklyn. He had no interest, no life, tuned out. We're going to bust our cap signing him and Lowry this summer. Just not sure his contract is worth becoming a top 3 payroll team at the moment.

[PennytoShaq]

While Serge filled a huge hole for us Raptors even with his 3 point shot he isn't the guy I used to watch in OKC and thus a disappointment. Bismack was a better defender in Toronto. As a few guys posted here, Casey kept trying to use Serge as center in late games at times at a cost to the team. Biz made a better center for a small ball lineup. I loved how he marked that lane as his.

That said Biz doesn't have the same swagger here as he had in Toronto. He played with swagger and pride. That might be an indication of the team temperature.

Yes. Biz is not being used the same. He has said that himself. Even on offense, we give him the ball too much off screens 15 feet from the basket. Makes no sense to me.

We get the right people in place and I think he will be more effective, like he was for the Raps. Toronto has been running a similar scheme for years now. The Magic are just now embracing something like it. I love how fast Biz covers the paint and he fights for rebounds constantly. He has the motor to be a small ball 5, which is super important.

On Serge - I had a feeling Ibaka may end up flaming out in Toronto. The days of the physical 4 appear to be over - unless they have great speed to cover the paint to the 3 point line. Moving him to 5 exposes the stuff you mentioned - he is slow on rotations now and can't cover the paint like Biz can. It's a shame, really. The good news is you may get him back for less than you think. I can't imagine a team offering him the max this summer unless he is doing the Vet thing and saving his best for a playoff run. That is still possible.