2017 Orlando Magic NBA Draft Night Thread: Weltman and Hammond's First Rodeo

[OrlandO]

Think I've fully talked myself into Isaac. Reminds me of Bosh in some ways.

Still don't understand the rationale for tradin 25 and 35. Sure you think the draft fell off after that, but a protected first for a first in a deep, good draft? I know everyone's said this already but just hard to believe teams wouldn't have gave up more for those picks.

Vogel last season said you can only develop a couple young players at a time. Weltman said in the presser he didn't want to put the coach in the position to have to bring up 4 rookies in one season. Pretty obvious why they deferred the picks. This is fine with me as long as we don't bring in any more half-retired vets like jeff green that vogel will give a bunch of minutes to. Only so many minutes to go around. Trading those picks, along with hammond's "sit and evaluate" comment, also tells me it's likely we're keeping the roster mostly intact until at least February.

[Cosmic_Backlash]

I'm really happy with Jonathan Isaac and and Iwundu. They both fit exactly the type of players that Weltman's team philosophy, which I totally agree with.
- Players that are competitive
- Players that play for their teammates
- Long

Neither are iso players. Isaac loves playing defense and fits in on offense. Iwundu has really strong passing instincts for a 2-guard. I'm really confident Isaac will be a 3pt threat due to having strong shooting percentage numbers across the board. 34% isn't bad for a freshman and 78% free throw shooter overall just shows he has good mechanics. Will be a matter of time.

Iwundu is more of a slasher, but that's fine too. In college he had a 1.32 PPP on catch and shoot, he gets in trouble when he tries to make some moves when not driving. What I like is both Iwundu and Isaac both have good free throw rates - something we need as well.

If we decide to keep Payton, I think both are good long term fits. Payton will almost always primarily be a slasher and these guys should fit in well feeding off of him.

I'm REALLY happy we're going long. Most of our team has very average wing spans (Fournier, Ross, Gordon, Augustin). I think this is mostly why we consistently struggle on defense. I don't think "small ball" is really a thing as much as people say it is. I'm not concerned with having centers - I'm concerned with having length. GSW won with Bogut and Zaza as centers - they still play centers. However, their team has tremendous length on the perimeter. Draymond, KD now, Klay - they all compete and get a ton of deflections with their length. This is something our team struggle at.

I think we could have got more value out of the trades, but I understand them and I don't think they are awful. I would have been much happier if we traded for more solid future firsts or back for picks in the 36-42 range. Solid value was still there with Bell, Thornwell. Probably could of had Iwundu in that range as well.

[j-ragg]

Think I've fully talked myself into Isaac. Reminds me of Bosh in some ways.

Still don't understand the rationale for tradin 25 and 35. Sure you think the draft fell off after that, but a protected first for a first in a deep, good draft? I know everyone's said this already but just hard to believe teams wouldn't have gave up more for those picks.

Vogel last season said you can only develop a couple young players at a time. Weltman said in the presser he didn't want to put the coach in the position to have to bring up 4 rookies in one season. Pretty obvious why they deferred the picks. This is fine with me as long as we don't bring in any more half-retired vets like jeff green that vogel will give a bunch of minutes to. Only so many minutes to go around. Trading those picks, along with hammond's "sit and evaluate" comment, also tells me it's likely we're keeping the roster mostly intact until at least February.

Didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. I'm just shocked at the dog **** value 25 can get in a good-great draft. I would think if that's the return, I'd rather just draft a euro stash guy or someone to develop a while in the G-league.

[PennytoShaq]

Yeah, I know it sucks but it takes a lot of time to develop rookies. 4 new guys is not fair to the coach. I think people will have a right to be upset if Iwundu is not as good as Weltman has hyped him to be (first round talent).

With that in mind, I have been reading about Brogdon. It seems like Iwundu is in that exact mold, with potential to be a better player. Hard worker, older player so he fell in the draft. A guy with a high basketball IQ that studies the game. Even more insane measurables than Brogdon while playing the same role of combo guard. Iwundu also possesses more athleticism than Brogdon. The only question mark is if his shot will improve enough for the NBA. The good news is that he improved his 3 point shot and his FT% is solid as well. He does not have a broken shot. In other words, this is not a guy like EP or Gordon who were miles away from a real jumper.

If Iwundu does what I think he can - which is get PT off the bench immediately as our reserve 1 and 2 guard, than he has a similar shot to be like Brogdon - a guy who plays himself into a starting role for the Magic and plays next to Terrance Ross if EP regresses or stagnates this season. The reality is that there are a lot of question marks in our starting back court. I believe Ross must deliver this year as a consistent scorer and EP must develop more as a PG, or the Magic will make changes there. It would be great if both things happen, but there is a strong chance only one guy or none show themselves as long term fits. In that regard, Iwundu has a perfect opportunity to step up.

[OrlandO]

Think I've fully talked myself into Isaac. Reminds me of Bosh in some ways.

Still don't understand the rationale for tradin 25 and 35. Sure you think the draft fell off after that, but a protected first for a first in a deep, good draft? I know everyone's said this already but just hard to believe teams wouldn't have gave up more for those picks.

Vogel last season said you can only develop a couple young players at a time. Weltman said in the presser he didn't want to put the coach in the position to have to bring up 4 rookies in one season. Pretty obvious why they deferred the picks. This is fine with me as long as we don't bring in any more half-retired vets like jeff green that vogel will give a bunch of minutes to. Only so many minutes to go around. Trading those picks, along with hammond's "sit and evaluate" comment, also tells me it's likely we're keeping the roster mostly intact until at least February.

Didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. I'm just shocked at the dog **** value 25 can get in a good-great draft. I would think if that's the return, I'd rather just draft a euro stash guy or someone to develop a while in the G-league.

Maybe the deepness of the draft didn't extend all the way out to the 25th pick?

[bigdogdylan5]

A ticket rep guy called me again and I pretty much laughed in his face and told him Im not interested until the Magic put some serious talent on the floor which by the looks of it will be years from now. Then he asked me if I knew anyone who would and I said no one I know would be interested in seeing the train wreck in person.

Did that make you feel like a big strong man being able to trash your own team because you r3% slither of the information told you the team got it wrong? Jesus fking christ the level of arrogance on this room is unbelievable.

Do you really think that years of professional scouting and intel + teams of paid scouts all over the WORLD + medical records + interviews, is not about 100000 times more information that you have from the 5 minutes you spend reading Chad Ford's big board and watching the strengths video DX put on youtube? Come ONNNNNNNNNNNNN.

Absolutely incredible.

I wish I could like this a million times

[j-ragg]

Yeah, I know it sucks but it takes a lot of time to develop rookies. 4 new guys is not fair to the coach. I think people will have a right to be upset if Iwundu is not as good as Weltman has hyped him to be (first round talent).

I fully understand not wanting 4 rookies. 100%. I get it.

But I'd rather do almost anything than trade a late first in a good-great draft for a crappier asset that we might be able to collect on the next time we vote for president of the United States. Just blows my mind.

I'd rather you package 25, 33, and 35 to draft at 20. This team hasn't won **** in half a decade and you just put 2/4 picks on hold for three years? Just seems like a mismanagement of assets.

[PennytoShaq]

Yeah, I know it sucks but it takes a lot of time to develop rookies. 4 new guys is not fair to the coach. I think people will have a right to be upset if Iwundu is not as good as Weltman has hyped him to be (first round talent).

I fully understand not wanting 4 rookies. 100%. I get it.

But I'd rather do almost anything than trade a late first in a good-great draft for a crappier asset that we might be able to collect on the next time we vote for president of the United States. Just blows my mind.

I'd rather you package 25, 33, and 35 to draft at 20. This team hasn't won **** in half a decade and you just put 2/4 picks on hold for three years? Just seems like a mismanagement of assets.

Well a lot of rumors were out that the Magic did try and package those picks to move up. Sounds like it just wasn't happening for them, or other teams were asking for too much.

I suspect our players are not valued right now. Which is why I think Hammond says he wants to evaluate. I think he knows that if he rolls out a smaller lineup and lets some of these guys shine, their value will go up and he can make better moves.

Still would not discount some trades in a few weeks, but I am not sure what to expect.

[nymets1]

What exactly did they mean when they said the draft flattened out from the 20's? That none of them were worth it?

I woulda been interested in Anzejs, Kuzma, Derrick White, Josh Hart, Davon Reed, Jordan Bell, Semi, Dwayne Bacon, Dillon Brooks, Thornwell

Some of our players have average wing spans, It is defiantly harder to score on a defender with a good wingspan than player with average wingspan.

[IllMagic04]

I don't get why you can't have 4 rookies. I don't see the big deal. We need players. "Not fair to the coach" . Why not? Do the job. There was still plenty of talent on the board when we punted those picks. Its just stupid. I think its because our bull headed head coach still wants to win games instead of develop. I like Frank but I don't think hes the right coach for our situation. I hope there is plenty of leg room on the bench cause I see Issac riding the beach a whole lot next year. I'm already bracing for it.

[j-ragg]

I don't get why you can't have 4 rookies. I don't see the big deal. We need players. "Not fair to the coach" . Why not? Do the job. There was still plenty of talent on the board when we punted those picks. Its just stupid. I think its because our bull headed head coach still wants to win games instead of develop. I like Frank but I don't think hes the right coach for our situation. I hope there is plenty of leg room on the bench cause I see Issac riding the beach a whole lot next year. I'm already bracing for it.

Especially with these new two-way contracts that allow people to bounce back and forth from the NBA to the GLeague.

I guess the way I see it... if you didn't plan on competing. Then worrying about youth and cap space/cap holds for draft picks is silly. If we were planning on making a splash in free agency or if we were one piece away. Then every hold and every dollar matters. I just still don't get it.

[Optimus_Steel]

With the draft lottery results and then this underwhelming draft, I am REALLY happy we decided to not renew our season passes. We had planned to buy a smaller package of games but seeing what product they appear to be putting on the floor in the coming season it might be better to just take the year off. Just too many years of mediocre talent and no hope. Very disappointing evening.

A ticket rep guy called me again and I pretty much laughed in his face and told him Im not interested until the Magic put some serious talent on the floor which by the looks of it will be years from now. Then he asked me if I knew anyone who would and I said no one I know would be interested in seeing the train wreck in person.

Did that make you feel like a big strong man being able to trash your own team because you r3% slither of the information told you the team got it wrong? Jesus fking christ the level of arrogance on this room is unbelievable.

Do you really think that years of professional scouting and intel + teams of paid scouts all over the WORLD + medical records + interviews, is not about 100000 times more information that you have from the 5 minutes you spend reading Chad Ford's big board and watching the strengths video DX put on youtube? Come ONNNNNNNNNNNNN.

Absolutely incredible.

First of all i don't have make any excuses to you or anyone to feel the way I do about this team. I am also assuming you are referring to the draft as my anger but its not, i feel that Issac is a very talented player and skilled, i refer to the state of the team in general as of the last 2 years or so. I paid a season package to watch the team last year in person and it was a terrible experience. It was so bad that people i know would refuse to go for free, even hardcore fans. And who could blame them, to invest the 4 to 5 hours to go downtown, find where to park, pay overpriced food, just to watch dysfunction in person. I am ok with losing but that team was a train wreck, painful to watch. This was and continues to be a depressing roster even with Issac although less than it was. This ticket rep calls me and insinuates that this team is going to make a strong playoff run next year so i should rebuy tickets, i had to laugh, he must of thought that i don't pay attention to the team. Even in the weak east this team is so far away and draft nite did not change that. The Magic front office needs to know what the hardcore local fans that pay in some cases substantial amounts feel, specially Alex because he thinks that because he can sell tickets to Brazilian tour groups that its ok and he can get away with and accept the mess he is responsible for and no its not ok. I refuse to accept that. I refuse to pay any more money until they get the talent on the floor that is watchable, I could care less about the marketing gimmicks, make this team competent. I will continue to watch on television but I'm not paying any more money and invest time to see this team live anytime soon.

[nymets1]

What 2 players are we choosing as our 2 way players? What does this 2 way player mean? Is it that we get to choose 2 guys that go from the Lakeland Magic G league team and go back n forth to the Orlando Magic?? The first one is already underway:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1583294

The Mavericks choose Jonathan Modley as one of their 2 way players. How about we choose Oriol Pauli as one of our 2 way players. The only other name I think of is Jimmer Fredette but I think we can do better than that.

[Knightro]

This team hasn't won **** in half a decade and you just put 2/4 picks on hold for three years? Just seems like a mismanagement of assets.

Two words. Trade. Currency.

Weltman/Hammond already have five additional picks coming their way over the next three drafts.

This regime has already established that they're not likely to bring on more than two rookies in a given offseason, so it's not likely they're going to use all those picks. So where does that leave them? With additional ammunition to grease the wheels in trades.

[j-ragg]

This team hasn't won **** in half a decade and you just put 2/4 picks on hold for three years? Just seems like a mismanagement of assets.

Two words. Trade. Currency.

Weltman/Hammond already have five additional picks coming their way over the next three drafts.

This regime has already established that they're not likely to bring on more than two rookies in a given offseason, so it's not likely they're going to use all those picks. So where does that leave them? With additional ammunition to grease the wheels in trades.

Lol likely 2022 and 2023 second round picks... look out Danny Ainge there's a new sheriff in town.

[Xatticus]

Did that make you feel like a big strong man being able to trash your own team because you r3% slither of the information told you the team got it wrong? Jesus fking christ the level of arrogance on this room is unbelievable.

Do you really think that years of professional scouting and intel + teams of paid scouts all over the WORLD + medical records + interviews, is not about 100000 times more information that you have from the 5 minutes you spend reading Chad Ford's big board and watching the strengths video DX put on youtube? Come ONNNNNNNNNNNNN.

Absolutely incredible.

To be fair, Isaac himself said it would take years and buying season tickets after last season you're guaranteed to see more losses than wins anyway. Last season was close to a train wreck with Ibaka and Jeff Green taking valuable minutes from our prospects with losses racking up. Oh yeah, and it wasn't fun or easy to watch either... but I get your point.

I dont mind losing more, i actually enjoy seeing the chemistry between AG and Elf and soon Isaac as well. What i wont settle for is another season of Jeff Green and Serge Ibaka and Evan Fournier forcing bad shots. The win now headspace has got to stop, it sets our ceiling way too low. We need more top end draft picks. Its that simple.

I've been an avid fan of this franchise from its inception. I watched a team comprised of has-beens and never-will-bes in its inaugural season and loved every minute of it. We reached the Finals twice, but my favorite team was the heart-and-hustle iteration. My favorite players have been Armstrong, Anderson, and Outlaw. I can handle losses. What I can't tolerate is apathy.

Our draft was a step in the right direction. Isaac will play hard, of this I have no doubts. The draft is really overshadowing our other young talent at present, but I'm also very excited to see the development of Gordon and Payton next season. I was disappointed with the beginning of Vogel's tenure, but he seemed to learn a lot about the roster as the season wore on and he adapted his approach. He endorsed our young talent to our new management team. That's a pretty big deal to me considering how his predecessor handled the same situation.

I don't believe we are going to tank next season. It will be interesting to see how we fill out our roster, but I expect we will be relatively competitive if we don't offload any significant pieces. Regardless of our final record, I will be happy if this team plays hard and continues to develop.

[Xatticus]

Yeah, I know it sucks but it takes a lot of time to develop rookies. 4 new guys is not fair to the coach. I think people will have a right to be upset if Iwundu is not as good as Weltman has hyped him to be (first round talent).

With that in mind, I have been reading about Brogdon. It seems like Iwundu is in that exact mold, with potential to be a better player. Hard worker, older player so he fell in the draft. A guy with a high basketball IQ that studies the game. Even more insane measurables than Brogdon while playing the same role of combo guard. Iwundu also possesses more athleticism than Brogdon. The only question mark is if his shot will improve enough for the NBA. The good news is that he improved his 3 point shot and his FT% is solid as well. He does not have a broken shot. In other words, this is not a guy like EP or Gordon who were miles away from a real jumper.

If Iwundu does what I think he can - which is get PT off the bench immediately as our reserve 1 and 2 guard, than he has a similar shot to be like Brogdon - a guy who plays himself into a starting role for the Magic and plays next to Terrance Ross if EP regresses or stagnates this season. The reality is that there are a lot of question marks in our starting back court. I believe Ross must deliver this year as a consistent scorer and EP must develop more as a PG, or the Magic will make changes there. It would be great if both things happen, but there is a strong chance only one guy or none show themselves as long term fits. In that regard, Iwundu has a perfect opportunity to step up.

I agree with most of what you say, but I disagree with regards to it being a strain on coaches to carry more than two rookies. I think most coaches just prefer veterans as they require less maintenance, so this rationalization is accepted to impose this artificial restriction. Coaching staffs are too robust these days for me to buy the argument though.

[PennytoShaq]

Well to expand, I believe that most new players are projects for 3-4 years right now. In other words, the Magic are still developing EP, AG and Hezonja as well as the 2 new guys. That is why I said it is not fair to the coach.