STOP MESSING AROUND: GIVE AG HIS MONEY

[Bensational]

I'm not saying Gordon will become Oladipo, but I'm not ruling the possibility out. If we can get another alpha to partner with him, great do it. But we shouldn't rush into calling the AG development a failure at this point, because it's way too early.

It is definitely too early to call AG’s development a failure. I think he would benefit greatly from a go-to scorer next to him.

Do you see maxing AG as a possible issue given the team salary and the fact that the magic are rebuilding again? What is the chance the magic find this alpha in the next draft, while addressing the other roster concerns? These are the questions I think a lot of people have regarding him.

Edit- just noticed you responded to one of these questions.

Brought this chat to the AG contract thread rather than spilling it out into the game thread.

Contract wise, I'm not concerned at all. Here's why:

Orlando's Contract and Cap Status over the next 5 years.

We're not a cap threatened team, as it stands. Given Hammond's quote recently about adding players that are going to help us in 3-4 years, that gives me the impression that their timeline for the team to become properly competitive is around the same.

If we kept everything exactly as it is and just let players expire and walk, even with a max contract for AG, we'll be in a position to have approx $10-20M cap space in the summer of 2019, and something around $40-50M cap space in the summer of 2020.

Even if we make deals and take back bloated contracts in exchange for acquiring more youth, there aren't many deals going right now that carry past that 2020 summer. I think that is our true end goal right now.

Guys currently slated to be on the books in 2020:

(Gordon - $25M)
Fournier - $17M
Isaac - $7M
2018 pick - $4 - 10M
2019 pick - $2 - 8M
2020 pick - $2 - 7M
(Elf - ?)

And that's it. The sliding scales on those rookie contracts depend on where they're picked. Even we somehow ended up with 3 #1 picks, we'd be at most committed to $77M in salary if Gordon had a max deal.

Free Agents of that year: Kawhi, Kyrie, Butler, Middleton, Love, Lowry, Gasol.

Prior to that, cap space will be relatively useless to us, unless we hope to pull a Brooklyn and absorb Mozgov for Russell. But I feel like that scale of deal is a once off.

But between now and then, I think we need to use the time to evaluate our guys thoroughly, but also know when it's time to cut ties. If Gordon fails to develop any further and this is all he is, then a max contract will obviously be an overpay, but it won't have the franchise hamstrung. We'd still have the potential of rookies from 2018/19/20 in the wings, along with cap space to chase at least 1 other max free agent.

That's why I'd be happy for us to take back bad salaries at the trade deadline, in exchange for some of our more ready now players (Vuc, Fournier, Payton, Ross, Simmons) but only as long as their contracts expired by 2020, and we get some solid and promising youth to develop in exchange. I'm not saying we should rush out and trade all those guys. But if the Knicks want to give us Ntilikina for Evan or Payton and also lump us with Noah's salary - sure, I'll do that. If the Bucks want to give us Thon or Brogdon at the expense of absorbing Delly or Telly - sure, I'll do that. If the Suns want to give us Chriss or Bender if we take on Chandler/Dudley/Knight, again, I'm down with that (though we've got nothing they'd want right now).

That plan still allows us to chase potential star talent and gives us a 2 year window to figure out if we've actually uncovered something special, before we've finally got the cap space to try to sign a legit game changer. And Gordon's max contract doesn't impact it at all.

Meanwhile, if he actually goes on to live up to the contract, then it's just going to make it all the more easier to recruit another star to play alongside him.

[fendilim]

I dont think anyone can pretend that ag doesnt deserve the max. Ag deserves it based on potential alone. Whether he lives up to that deal or not remains to be seen. But today, i think 16-18million should be more realistic for him.

[VFX]

I'm not saying Gordon will become Oladipo, but I'm not ruling the possibility out. If we can get another alpha to partner with him, great do it. But we shouldn't rush into calling the AG development a failure at this point, because it's way too early.

It is definitely too early to call AG’s development a failure. I think he would benefit greatly from a go-to scorer next to him.

Do you see maxing AG as a possible issue given the team salary and the fact that the magic are rebuilding again? What is the chance the magic find this alpha in the next draft, while addressing the other roster concerns? These are the questions I think a lot of people have regarding him.

Edit- just noticed you responded to one of these questions.

Brought this chat to the AG contract thread rather than spilling it out into the game thread.

Contract wise, I'm not concerned at all. Here's why:

Orlando's Contract and Cap Status over the next 5 years.

We're not a cap threatened team, as it stands. Given Hammond's quote recently about adding players that are going to help us in 3-4 years, that gives me the impression that their timeline for the team to become properly competitive is around the same.

If we kept everything exactly as it is and just let players expire and walk, even with a max contract for AG, we'll be in a position to have approx $10-20M cap space in the summer of 2019, and something around $40-50M cap space in the summer of 2020.

Even if we make deals and take back bloated contracts in exchange for acquiring more youth, there aren't many deals going right now that carry past that 2020 summer. I think that is our true end goal right now.

Guys currently slated to be on the books in 2020:

(Gordon - $25M)
Fournier - $17M
Isaac - $7M
2018 pick - $4 - 10M
2019 pick - $2 - 8M
2020 pick - $2 - 7M
(Elf - ?)

And that's it. The sliding scales on those rookie contracts depend on where they're picked. Even we somehow ended up with 3 #1 picks, we'd be at most committed to $77M in salary if Gordon had a max deal.

Free Agents of that year: Kawhi, Kyrie, Butler, Middleton, Love, Lowry, Gasol.

Prior to that, cap space will be relatively useless to us, unless we hope to pull a Brooklyn and absorb Mozgov for Russell. But I feel like that scale of deal is a once off.

But between now and then, I think we need to use the time to evaluate our guys thoroughly, but also know when it's time to cut ties. If Gordon fails to develop any further and this is all he is, then a max contract will obviously be an overpay, but it won't have the franchise hamstrung. We'd still have the potential of rookies from 2018/19/20 in the wings, along with cap space to chase at least 1 other max free agent.

That's why I'd be happy for us to take back bad salaries at the trade deadline, in exchange for some of our more ready now players (Vuc, Fournier, Payton, Ross, Simmons) but only as long as their contracts expired by 2020, and we get some solid and promising youth to develop in exchange. I'm not saying we should rush out and trade all those guys. But if the Knicks want to give us Ntilikina for Evan or Payton and also lump us with Noah's salary - sure, I'll do that. If the Bucks want to give us Thon or Brogdon at the expense of absorbing Delly or Telly - sure, I'll do that. If the Suns want to give us Chriss or Bender if we take on Chandler/Dudley/Knight, again, I'm down with that (though we've got nothing they'd want right now).

That plan still allows us to chase potential star talent and gives us a 2 year window to figure out if we've actually uncovered something special, before we've finally got the cap space to try to sign a legit game changer. And Gordon's max contract doesn't impact it at all.

Meanwhile, if he actually goes on to live up to the contract, then it's just going to make it all the more easier to recruit another star to play alongside him.

Great breakdown Ben. Thanks.

I agree with most of this as well. I think, because we are so bad, that the “uncovering of talent” will most likely come from the draft selections. This will be super important for the team because of the flexibility of rookie contracts and seeing how they mesh well with whoever is left from trades.

Personally, I’m going to disregard free agency for Orlando other than resigning current players and getting minor role/bench players. There isn’t really incentive for free agents to look at Orlando as a destination monetarily (contract wise not perks like state tax) or from a winning perspective for players in their prime. That being said, if the FO can build a culture in the next 2/3 years out of hungry young rookies and prospects it will speed up the process. No pressure right..?

You bring up some interesting points about taking bad contracts in exchange. I think that might actually be a valid decision for the FO to make in acquiring young prospects. You’ve actually sold me on that now. If it happens, it has to be done soonish. It’s a smart investment actually. The EP for Frankie Smokes idea is pretty solid - even just for an example.

AG probably gives us a few more years to toy with some of these ideas. I’m hoping that WeHam will make enough noise before next season that the picture becomes more clear. It’s been a rough time for Magic fans.

[OrlMagic05]

AG has looked bad over in the month of January, but its because teams only have to worry about him now. AG is not ready to be a number 1 option yet, but he has shown flashes that he can be a really really good number 2 option. I think we will find our number 1 option if we land a top 4 pick in this draft. AG and someone like Trae Young, Luka or even Porter would be a very good 1, 2 punch!